Lord Nev

I didn't say all their individual reasons are the same, I was merely pointing out that being contracted does not preclude you from being traded. Players get where they want to, that's just how it is. Open your eyes mate. There is enough noise now to say things aren't all rosey behind the scenes.

I can't predict the future, and I'm not an 'insider' myself, so I'll just put those disclaimers in at the top. I have heard, and already posted here somewhere, that there is significant 'friction' (the word used when explaining to me) between a group of younger players and older players at the club. I don't know if that relates to the co-captains at all as I've not been told that specifically, but I was told Lewis has no interest in involvement in the club going forward due to it, so don't expect him to be back as a coach next year. Both Petracca and Brayshaw have had significant meetings with Mahoney that involve their managers. Content wise I don't know, but they were before the Kangaroos game, so they weren't exit interviews, they were specific meetings. The tension goes up the ranks somewhat though from what I've heard. I'm not 100% sure how bad, and perhaps a winning season may heal wounds, but as it stands right now we are seemingly a somewhat fractured club. Difficult meetings have been held today too apparently. Not player-related ones. I don't think things are unfixable, but they are far from good, and anyone thinking preseason fitness will solve everything is mistaken IMO.

Brad Hill is contracted too. So was Hogan. So was May...

Yep, in an old school footy world that is what would happen, but we just never see it these days. A player wants to get somewhere, they get there. I don't like it, but that's how things are it seems.

It's not about what we (the club) want, it's about what Petracca wants. People need to start opening their eyes to what's potentially happening at the club right now.

The veil is being lifted and heads are gradually coming out of the sand...

Gut feel is he might retire. But please can we stop with the incorrect statements, he leads our entire club for average tackles inside 50. Also happens to be our leading average goal kicker. Let's open both eyes and be grown up when talking about him hey.

Yeah for sure they had a big impact, but Cross was 31 when he came to us and Bernie was 29. And I would say our list was in a much worse shape at that stage than it is now. Hard to say who has had a bigger impact culture wise as the contexts are a bit different I reckon, and we're not in there behind the scenes. I wouldn't put Higgins in the same category as any of them from a leadership perspective, but that's just my opinion.

Yeah I posted in another thread about that. He's an interesting one is Milkshake, he quite often directs the forward line well but then he has those moments like that one that ruin it a bit.

That might have been his value last year, but it's significantly different this year.

When this thread first started I was hoping that if it was to happen we might get Hill and Langdon for Gus (and maybe a 3rd round pick or something), but you're right, it's now at a point value wise where Gus for Langdon is a fair trade. Be interesting now that Rosich is out and Mark Brayshaw is rumoured to be keen on the Freo CEO position if that has any impact on how Gus feels.

No denying injuries were a factor, but we did totally change our coaching structure midway through the season too...

Yeah for sure, wasn't mean to sound like a dig at him at all, he's been rated as a potential leader at both clubs. Was more thinking of the impact over the minimal time he would be with us. As you say, Lewis, who has 4 flags and is very highly rated as a leader, hasn't managed to turn it around in the 3 years he was there. No doubt he's had an impact, but it just shows how bad things were/still are. I rate Higgins highly, would just rather try to chase someone we can have for longer.

Decided to go out in a blaze of glory hey? Good for you, I'm sure it will make all your problems go away.

Real subtle Matsuo.

Yeah for sure, and that's a glaring problem for us IMO. I think as far as 'directional' leaders go we have Lever, May, Lewis and Melksham. Two of them aren't reliable yet from an injury perspective, one has just retired and the last one (Melksham) I think is a bit too keen on a spray to be captain. All of them I would consider for the leadership group next year though (aside from Lewis obviously). Gawn as captain, and then those 3 plus Viney would be a good group for us in 2020 (as good as we can get anyway). I'm not sure where TMac sits as far as that stuff goes since being removed from the group, so hard to tell. An inexperienced coaching group with 'example' type leaders, directional leaders always injured, and no runners (due to the rule change) was always going to be trouble for us.

Not saying he didn't do a good job tagging, just wondering about the actual leadership. Not everyone who tags well is a leader, otherwise Simon Godfrey would have been captain.

Sure, but 32 is literally a senior. If he was a former captain or had premiership experience I might be for it, but he's a good mid who's played a handful of finals. Don't see the point when we're a long way off. I wouldn't look at anyone over 30 unless they're going to significantly impact our culture in a short time, and as good a player as Higgins is, I just don't see him as being able to do that as a leader.

Always enjoy the threads that get bumped when a player has a good game. Would be 32 before next season starts. We're not exactly topping up for a flag. Been a great player, but doesn't suit our context as a club.

Hey mate, always enjoy this thread, found this one a little curious. In what particular way do you mean? I saw 3 players today giving meaningful instruction, granted I was watching on TV, and Viney wasn't one of them. Is this just the old 'he bleeds red and blue' and/or 'leads by example' type of leadership that we seem to always use to let our captains off the hook with?

Glad we didn't win tbh. We would have spent the next few months licking the last few drops of bath water up from winning 1 meaningless game. Fully official rock bottom. so time to see how they respond. No more 'this will burn', no more 'looking for positives', time for them to show us as supporters and the wider footy community if they're competitors or just employees.

Didn't look great, but if you see a replay Harmes just stands there and watches and I reckon Salem was holding position for Harmes to come in and spoil. Just symptomatic of us and how we haven't been able to develop the instinct and trust in each other.

My perception is that it's more that he's an inexperienced coach with potential and needs experience around him to learn and develop from.

Again, that was already answered. If you're not going to accept facts then there's not much else I can give you mate. Have a good one.

Ok then, let's go for people held in terrible regard...