Smokey

Its funny watching you [censored] in someone’s pocket who is trying to be positive around here after the way you reacted to me recently. Fascinating really. I was accused of all but high treason haha. ‘Perhaps I’m slightly less eloquent, but my message was similar.

That’s generally what commentators have to offer on the radio

Surprised the ‘is Goodwin the right guy’ thread hasn’t resurfaced yet lol @GCDee I’m with you mate. I can us coming to (hopefully next week) and smashing plenty of teams.

Went back and checked last weeks stats, I thought we lost i50’s last week. Turns out we didn’t. I’m don’t disagree with you, I’m just trying to find some positives that we can build on instead of getting hysterical. Our flaws are horribly obvious and hardly need pointing out.

I feel you have inferred far too much from a fairly simple comment. It was more aimed at people that are throwing the towel in for the season over a couple of losses. I’m as disappointed as the next person but I personally don’t see what getting overly emotional about it online does. The rest of the comment was centred around remaining objective about where we are at given our pre season. If that triggers you then go ahead and put me on ignor.

The end score is obviously unkind and forgettable, but take a deep breath everyone. We won inside 50s and clearances. That is an improvement. Guys like Clarry and Max and Viney are responding and getting back to their normal outputs. Now we just need T Mac to rediscover some form and we should start resembling ourselves again. There are probably a few more to mention but I reckon t macs current form is hurting us the most right now as we rely on him for a lot in the forward 50. Most here conceded that we had a very interrupted pre season with many surgeries, and far shorter than we’ve been used to in over a decade to boot. Well it’s only round 2 and this is still obviously a huge factor from what I’m seeing. Again, take a deep breath. I think we’ll be fine and the panic stations some have arrived at already mostly reflects your lack of mental resilience more than anything else. Many here comment on how the boys will handle the expectation that’s been put on us this year, well most of you are failing that same test right now by throwing your toys out of the cot after 2 games.

Finally an intelligent and considered observation. And to all you armchair personal trainers commenting on his weight, try to understand that manipulating ones body mass can be incredibly more difficult for some. Conversely, look at Jeffy - he spends just as much time in the gym as anyone else in the team and has arms like toothpicks. Petracca wasn’t even our worst and some of you ought to be ashamed for the way you are talking about a fellow human right now. Bunch of bloody keyboard warriors, love to see you lot go down to training this week and share these comments with him in person.

how bout we target a flag this year

Can you explain what you mean when you say drinking your own bathwater then? Because my understanding of the meaning of this is that it includes a player becoming arrogant in terms of their own abilities, which in turn breeds complacency, which in turn could lead to poor performance on the field. That's generally the context in which most commentators are speaking to when it is mentioned. Is your take on this different? Genuinely interested here because I seriously hate this term being thrown around without justification and have spoken of it before here.

Where we will not see eye to eye on this is the insistence of using hypothetical scenarios in the assessment of any player. Yes, anything is possible - Clarry could succumb to the media hype and become arrogant. He could also get hit by a tram and break both legs, or slip into a deep depression after his missus leaves him for a 65 year old super yacht owner with a horrific spray tan. Hypothetical's in this scenario serve no purpose other than generating unnecessary hysteria and anxiousness which frankly, we simply do not need.

Ok i'll approach this differently. What evidence have you based this opinion that Clarry is in danger of drinking his own bathwater? Keep in mind, poor performance is only one of the metrics at play here. He would also have to display a level of outward arrogance with relation to his own abilities to meet the category for the idiom you have chosen to use here. I find his personality, based off observing his media appearances to date, to be very humble and frankly completely at odds with what you are suggesting.

@La Dee-vina Comedia Fair call. I'm just tired of hearing every under-performing player being labelled as "drinking their own bathwater". It is possible that players can have bad games without being full of themselves you know ...

I do indeed. The term "drinking your own bathwater" would imply that a player, in this example Clarry, has openly praised his or the teams own abilities and is now failing to meet that. The validation of information that has been put out by an individual with regard to oneself and the subsequent failure to meet the standards portrayed. Please share with me any evidence of this. I find our players to be pretty humble when it comes to media appearances and generally say the right thing. It's only the media and commentators pumping us up, and our players are constantly bombarded with conversations about expectations this year and I honestly feel that they respond to that pretty respectfully. Unless I'm missing the interview where Clarry came out and said "I'll win a Brownlow and we won't drop a single game this year", I feel like people don't understand what this idiom actually means and are not applying it correctly. Clarry in my view does the opposite. He is highly humble and has shown that he continues to work harder and harder every year. Suggesting he is in danger of drinking his own bathwater is way off the mark in my opinion.

Do I have to respect others rights to have differing views? Of course. Do I have to accept these views as fact? Absolutely not. You can't suggest one person has the right to say what they feel but tell another he cannot because it is at odds with someone else's view. For those playing at home, this is a good example of an oxymoron. Getting back on track, I wouldn't take issue with whats being said here is I felt it was "realistic". I consider myself a realist in saying that losing in round 1 is not the end of the world, there were a number of factors which clearly contributed to it, it's a long season and lets pump the brakes a bit until we have a decent data set to analyse. What is being said here can only be viewed as hysterical at this point, not the collected thoughts of a bunch of "realists" who appreciate the significant contributing factors to why we would have a slow start to the year. Don't like my opinions which are at odds with others? Take a leaf out of your own book and stop reading them then ...

Getting pretty sick of people claiming that certain players are "drinking their own bathwater" after having an average game or two. Stop repeating the one liners you hear in the media and instead try to have an original thought without being influenced by the highly limited collective IQ of fox footy personnel. Unless you have a signed photo of the player in question which states "I am gods gift to footy and no longer need to try", then spare us the recycled fox footy one-liners you unimaginative parrots. The most ironic thing is that people that are dull enough to quote people like Robbo is that they have probably never invested themselves in anything anywhere near what these young men do week in week out. If you can't handle a round 1 loss in a 23 round season after a disruptive pre season without melting down online in a poorly constructed forum post, then I'm sorry but you are likely suited better to following competitive knitting or something. Again ironic - you would demand these young men have the fortitude to do what it takes week in week out to be a professional athlete in a top 4 AFL team, yet throw your toys out of the cot like an entitled 2 year old after a loss in round 1. Show at least a fraction of the mental toughness you demand from the team or sit the hell down.

Sure, I encourage it. I live by the sword.

Wow wee the round 1 over reaction is even more crazy than I expected haha. Its 1 game. We had a short off season full of surgeries. The team looks under done across the park. I am compiling a list of some of the most outrageous comments after the round 1 loss and will crack them out at round 23 and we can vote on the best ones.

Fully agree with this, and I got roasted here for saying something similar recently. The cop out of "his disposal isn't going to be great as he is constantly disposing of the footy under pressure" was floated and I think that is ridiculous. The thing is, smart ball placement for attacking kicks can't always be taught and we may be looking at the best version of Gussy we'll get right now (which I still love FWIW). I'm still hopeful that KK can fill the connection void between mid and forward as I doubt our ball winning grunts have the scope to improve in that area meaningfully.

Gen x huh? Of course meaning you raised the smashed avo generation. Maybe you lot should have been better parents lol

Shades of jack watts really. Glad he’s gone, all the best to him.

I thought Keilty showed enough in JLT to warrant his inclusion on the backup ruck list. Much rather him line up than Bradke at this stage.

Is it just me or is advocating for legalisation and demanding more invasive testing for little reason fairly oxymoronic?

There is no doubt to the addictive qualities of meth, good luck finding someone that will argue you on that point. My point is a simple one though - the current system for dealing with drug abuse clearly isn’t working (it never has actually) and we as a society need to start questioning the value of our current methodology and open our minds to alternate concepts. And if we can’t do that, at least recognise the data that is beginning to exist that favours as far more progressive approach.

It's a hard pill to swallow (ha!) and goes against most peoples intuition on the subject, but we are seeing more and more examples that legalization/decriminalization when combined with targeted mental health frameworks to support addicts actually reduces addiction and overall usage. People take drugs for a variety of reasons, but usually it comes down to something pretty simple - their life sucks. They are unfulfilled, be it a meaningless job they hate, a family who is unloving or distant, or no family at all (just to name a few). These people need an escape, which is quite a natural reaction for a human being who has the capacity for this type of awareness. Some choose escape with alcohol, some with prescribed opioids, others with meth. Until we understand and treat the underlying reasons that trigger substance abuse for these people, no amount of policing and litigation will ever amount to positive change. We need to think outside the box, because at this point we are just banging our heads against a wall and expecting different results. Legalization to reduce usage is a bold idea, but we are starting to see really positive results in those countries brave enough to try it. Decades of prohibition indoctrination has most people blind to these new concepts, but at this point we need to either try something radical which may work, or continue on the current path which DEFINITELY doesn't work. Small chance of a result is better than no chance, right?

This type of conservative thinking paves the way to a hyper-nanny state which is terrifying to imagine. To suggest conducting drug testing in jobs beyond those that would benefit from performance-enhancing drugs or pose serious physical safety issues is as invasive as it is downright stupid. What on earth would a positive drug test from a office staffer prove (other than potentially ruining someones livelihood because they prefer some ecstasy on the weekends instead of a bottle of scotch)? Come on, its almost 2020 - can we please consider moving away from this ridiculous hard line approach to the war on drugs that that puts trillions of dollars in the hands of criminal groups globally, poisons our children with substances they never intended on taking and criminalizes addicts for life instead of treating the addiction with medical/psychological intervention? Switzerland made heroin completely legal and free to obtain in clinics and the stats are in - heroin use is significantly down in that country. Instead of criminalizing users with endless litigation and police resources, they diverted that money into mental health initiatives for addicts, which in turn uncovered the underlying cause of their use and saw an overall drop in usage, despite its open availability. Modern problems require modern solutions - prohibition didn't work for alcohol and your a fool to think it will work for other drugs (I saw other drugs because alcohol is no different, other than being legal and socially acceptable). There are other examples of effective progressive thinking like in Portugal or The Netherlands, but I digress ... The main focus should be to catch players using performance enhancing substances, which I'm all for as no-one wants to see a game played by people with unfair advantages. Recreational testing should be for impairment on game day only, not for the presence of substances in the system outside of game day. Instead of teaching kids that adults, including their footy idols, take drugs - let them figure it out the natural way; in a seedy nightclub after their 18th birthday surrounded by friends and questionable loud music (unless you live in NSW as I don't think you guys are allowed out after midnight anymore thanks to your "liberal" government)