Goodvibes

As a club that is currently struggling to be competitive with other teams off the field, I'm quite happy that less and less trades are being done each year. To my way of thinking that means less of our competitors are getting an advantage on us and are similarly relying on the drafts to build a premiership team. The more socialist the system can be, the greater chance we have of winning a flag.

That's a good call DD. I've been a bit worried about the direction of Demonland lately too and have tried to increase my contributions over the past week as a consequence . There's some very good posters out there who don't seem to visit much anymore.

You're a good poster DD, but telling someone else they're not welcome on a forum is a bit disappointing. YM frustrates me greatly too and from time to time I've had a shot at him myself but one of the great things about a football team is the diversity of supporters that choose to follow it. The posters on this forum are like the motley crew of drinkers at the local. Just think of YM as the slightly off-beat regular whose slant on life is often cringe-worthy but always entertaining. At the end of the day he might drink a different beer to you but shares your love of the pub. He's the guy you humour for a few minutes and then take the [censored] out of as he stumbles out the door on the way home. But if he stopped coming, the pub would lose a little of its character. YM makes some ridiculous assertions but you can't doubt his passion for this club. His omnipresence here is proof. This forum is no doubt an outlet for him as it is for many of us, when our footballing fortunes seem less than fair. Don't let his antics distract from your usual contributions of quality.

Where are you getting that information from?

Cost of following the Sydney path

If we can find a player who has the potential to fill an important structural piece in the puzzle that is our first 22 (such as Martin) I'd be rapt. If this particular player isn't a 'name player' then I will trust our football department. I was unsure when Martin was drafted last year and I now see him as a vital component in our future.

You seem to expect that 17 or 18 year olds are the finished product. At 17 or 19 we're not going to be selecting the complete midfielder. It's all going to be about which package we think we have the best shot at turning into a gem. In the case of Hill, it seems you're on the money in regards his weakness. Composure comes with experience and hopefully good coaching. It's tough to teach speed and agility.

If we start trading like Sydney we'll definitely die. If you consider we've already had 2 years in the wilderness, I'm suggesting we need to buckle up for another tough year, enjoy the progress of our young players and again enjoy the benefits of early draft picks. My approach to the next 12 months is simple. If we win quite a few games of footy that means our young kids have taken massive strides and early draft picks won't be as essential. If we have a similar year to this year then we'll be looking at three more top 20 picks in the draft possibly including the top 2 and then definitely in a position to see a team with class and skill evolve. Can I also suggest that the Melbourne market is far less fickle than Sydney. Put simply, we're the proof. 30,000 plus record membership in a year with just 3 wins suggests that the supporters of this team have a bit more substance about them than popular, stereotyped opinion would have you believe. The debt demolition month has shown me that the club is indeed in a position now to tough it out for another year and then jump on board and enjoy the journey back up the ladder. If we were to follow the Sydney model as you suggest, how would you have wheeled and dealed during this past week?

Has the topping up approach worked? Ellis, Bizzell, Vardy, Pickett? I'm not suggesting that we blindly follow the approach of just one team. As Bailey has suggested more than once, we need to be a step ahead of where the game is going. Hawthorn have certainly been astute with their trades, drafted well and had a fair slice of luck along the way. They had early picks at the right time and traded senior players at a time when draft picks weren't valued as highly as they have been over the past 5 days. Sure, every part of our operations need to be over-hauled to ensure success, but when it comes to shaping a premiership 22, the reality is that the draft is our only avenue. We must draft and draft and draft until we have a team of winners and if that means 3 - 4 in the wilderness, so be it.

I'm in the Watts camp for our first pick. 17 and 19 are going to be very interesting. Based purely on reading truckloads of first hand reports, I'd be happy if we could snare two of Swift, Hill, Blease, Zaharakis, Robinson, Heyne and Walters. Of the talls many consider to still be available at the start of the second round, I'm most interested in Shoenmakers or Trengove. Cornelius (lack of speed), Mckernan (in-between size) Johnston (ordinary kick) and Lisle (agility) all have question marks that conern me. I'm with Scoop. Two midfielders at 17 and 19 would be very nice indeed. If one became an "A" grade midfielder we might just have a future.

Well for a start I didn't suggest "a couple of years down the track" would be the time frame. A proper rebuild takes time. The nucleus of the Geelong premiers of 2007 came together 5 - 8 years ago. I agree that we need to do everything right to win a premiership but the past decade is littered with teams possessing serious deficiencies that have made the top 4. You could argue that that is the reason they haven't won premierships but I'd argued that if you're top 4 you're always a chance of having a great fortnight. Consider the Adelaide premierships. Collingwood in 1990? Essendon 1993? Perhaps in a few years time we might say the same about Hawthorn. They were a solid top 4 team, everything fell for them and they won a cup. St Kilda may not have won a premiership but put themselves in a position to have a genuine crack and they did so thanks to 3-4 years of high draft picks. Injuries have been cruel to them. Hawthorn followed the same model and Carlton seem next in line. To be brutally honest, if this model can't win a premiership then we're in real strife. If football department funding and training facilities are the keys we'll not win a premiership in the short to medium term. As much as I rate these two elements, I still believe having 22 very good footballers is handy when wanting to win a premiership. So much so that I think Melbourne has the best opportunity to be the next cab off the rank (after St Kilda, Hawthorn and then Carlton) in the bottoming out/early draft picks approach to winning a flag. I'll be very interested to see if this makes any sense in the morning. German beer is dangerous.

Jarka the socialist AFL gives any side an opportunity to rebuild through the draft and put themselves in position to win a flag. These days flags come from teams who finish in the top four with a double chance. How many teams can you name who haven't finished top four this millenium? The system works. Our chance will come again.

You're behaving like a spoilt kid on Christmas morning who has spent the week dreaming about his spoils and then whinges about his lack of shiny new presents. I love trade week in that the proposed trades challenge us to consider the state of our list and how our list could improve. I hate trade week because people like you think life is like a computer game where you can offer nothing and receive the world in exchange. The reality of course is that every trade week is different. The strength of the potential draftees and the Gold Coast angle certainly impacted on the level of activity over the past 5 days. Our football department undoubtedly tested the water with our fringe players and received very few offers of substance. I'm certain they did what we all did and tried to nut out ways we could improve our list. Warnock and McIntosh were the only names that intersted me of the players that were definitely on the market. One was removed from the market by Wednesday and would have cost and arm and a leg (picks wise) and the other didn't want to come to us and would've had cost an arm and a leg (salary wise). What would you have the club do? The only other players to interest me were Thorp and Dowler because of the O'Keefe/Hawthorn angle. I thought we might have a small chance of playing a role as a third party but unfortunately opposition teams (even Freo these days) seem reluctant to give away much for very little. Again, what would you have the club do? Throw away pick 1 and Jack Watts? Those who seriously think Jamar should have been thrown away for very little must have seen a side of John Meesen that I haven't or have short memories in regards to the injury history of Paul Johnson. BB time to find your dummy and tidy up your toys.

The Australian is reporting that the only way Hawthorn will take O'Keefe is if they can get another draft pick (early 20's suggests Pelchen). They don't want to start the draft with a late second rounder. The Australian threw the names of Dowler and Thorp out there as possible generators as draft picks. Maybe a chance exists to get one of these guys afterall by offering up 17 or 19 which would then allow them to give Sydney pick 16 for O'Keefe which Pelchen suggests is a fair trade. Getting our hands on Thorp would be a fantastic outcome. I just can't see the rationale in letting him go if I was Hawthorn. They may, however, be willing to let go Dowler. If so, is he worth us giving up 19?

So you're willing to trade away half the Melbourne team to get pick 4 so you can cling on to your beloved Vickery but won't take Warnock for nothing in the PSD. Interesting. 2.00 pm tomorrow can't come quick enough.

Apart from the fact he wants to stay in Melbourne.

I think this is the most realistic angle for the club to pursue and the small grabs from Bailey over the past couple of weeks suggest this will be the approach. Upgrading pick 35 into the 20's and pick 51 into the high 30's or low 40's would definitely be worthwhile. I think 'cold pie' worth is a little harsh. CJ, Bell and maybe Dunn could be players other clubs would be interesting in at a low cost. Trading Bruce seems a long shot although one I'd like us to consider for anything under pick 25. Anyone entertaining thoughts of getting pick 4 from Port Adelaide is in dreamworld. I agree that the club is unlikely to trade Davey and Sylvia and Rivers are indeed worth more to us than what we'd get in a trade. The one player who may have value is Jones but with McLean's injury history, I think he's important insurance. The only 'must keep' players on our list at the moment are Morton, Grimes, Maric, McLean and Garland. A fit Rivers and an in-form Davey would join that list but we have to go back a couple of seasons for evidence of that! I think Bate could become an important structural player (despite his form deteriorating at the end of the year) but everyone else I consider to be bit part or role player. Another pick below 25 is important. If we go with Watts as pick 1, we could then take the best 3 midfielders available and hope 2 of them turn into best 22 players. Whatever way we do the maths regarding draft picks and list weaknesses, we're still a draft short in regards to addressing our needs. Patience over the next 12 months might become our most required commodity. Agree with Hards re Seaby. I'm not swayed by Seaby stats. He is very very average.

Let's hear some names H. Who would you put up? What are the realistic destinations for these players and what would we get in exchange?

Nice work Dee tention. You provided an entire post about obtaining another top pick and didn't mention Vickery once. Well done!

Wood for 14 will make sense in 12 months time.

Start a blog YM - you know you want to!

I'm not sure that was the point Fan was hinting at with the provision of those two links. A little context doesn't go astray when passionate posters are ready to play judge, jury and executioner. His background is no excuse but certainly provides a little more food for thought. It seems the worst thing many posters on this forum have to deal with is a 44 year premiership drought. Now cue the bleeding heart accusations . . . .

And what would you call trading away Travis Johnstone for pick 14? What would you call dropping Yze (early in the season), Carroll (soon after) and White (half way through the season)? The wheels are in motion.

and bottom agers.

C'mon YM. You've come this far. Take the next step and tell us who you'll pick up with picks 1, 5, 11, 17, 26 and 35.