Jarka

Didn't Bailey say that the list had to be rebuilt around the u/23's when he first came to the club? Probably not in those exact words but I'm sure it was the same meaning. The other issue we have is that we're in a patch where we are going to replace alot of senior players, last year several older guys retired and it will continue over the next couple with Neitz, White, McDonald, Yze, Holland etc all retiring. So in reality over the next couple of years we're looking at developing players for FF, CHF, CHB, FB, Ruck and another top inside mid.

Do you mean "Gong Xi Fa Cai"? If you did then happy new year to you to :D

Yeah, your post pretty much sums the storm and waldron up.

I agree mo, listening to Waldron on SEN is like listening to some trailer trash moron.

Not such a bad position to be in

Fair enough, good to see you apply the same standards for McLean and Rivers

I hear he's very good at cutting the oranges. Will that do?

Make no mistake, Masten will be a very good player. As a junior he is more of a 'complete' player than Morton, Sylvia or McLean. I have no idea why but he's sounderrated on this forum - wait, I think I just answered my own question...

Somehow I don't believe that he would punch someone withoutt provocation and not be arrested, I'd like to know the events just prior to the hit to make my judgement.

That's the thing though Goodvibes, it wasn't just the one incident, there were others. So if it's ok to excuse several 'incidents' from Neitz then why doesn't McLean get the same treatment?

I think you're guilty of having double standards. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but the incidents that Brock was involved in was not instigated by the man himself, a couple of idiots picked a fight with him, how do you get a 'big strike out' of that?. Neitz on the other hand got blind drunk in a well known Melbourne nightspot, tried to get into a taxi and then proceeded to do something that called for several security guards to get involved. He then decided to fight his way out of the situation. I'm amazed that you can so critical of McLean and at the same time completely dismiss Neitz' actions which I consider to be far worse. Neitz 'fronted up to it' because it was in the papers before he had a chance to sober up, but there has been other 'incidents' that he's been involved in, one example had a semitic flavour to it.

If that's your line of thinking then what do you think of David Neitz?

Partly correct. Leaders do generally have experience, but in almost every single case across the planet they have other characteristics, such as the ability to lead by example when the team needs it the most. To push past the point of exhaustion and continue to perform at the highest level. Experience alone does not make a leader.

I'm underwhelmed by the club's decision however this year was always going to be bit of a transition period between the old and the new. Neitz probably deserves to captain this year being our 150 anniversary, and it will give some of the younger guys a chance to play some consistent footy. Having seen zero training sessions this year I have no idea who is firing and training hard, perhaps Yze has finally stepped up in this category - I doubt it but I'll be pleasantly surprised if the move works. Ditto for Miller although there has to come a point where he can no longer live on the reputation that he formed a couple of years ago when he huffed and puffed in a couple of games (and please no one mention the Fremantle game). One thing I'd like to see the club do is to look to the future and not the past...perhaps next year?

Isn't it lucky then that our current captain has never been involved in any off field incidents with crown casino security guards

I'd prefer that we have a game plan designed around our players strengths, I am completely over having our game plan based on another team.

No, I didn't see that post. That's a concern because they never knew what the problem was with Tingay, even when he went up to Sydney the doctors were still trying to work out what happened when his girlfriend pushed him through the glass door. Doesn't look good

Bartram not training is a worry, does anyone know what's actually wrong with him?

Good analysis nash, although you're being very kind

Green and Bruce have been played out of position for the last 6 years due to the fact that we've lacked real inside mids.

Tim, like yourself and others in this thread I think that we are going in the right direction with the leadership qualities amongst our youngsters, and I agree that we're probably a good couple of seasons away from being competitive. With regards to our backline and more specifically Bell and Frawley...I've been a Bell fan right from the beginning of his career and I'd love to see what he could do if he played a whole year uninjured. With Frawley I'm not so optimistic. I think he'll play alot of games for us and be a serviceable player but I have my doubts of whether he is the KPP we desperately need in the backline, hopefully he'll prove me wrong, but I see him more of a taller rebounding flanker. Having said that if we get our midfield right then it won't matter if we don't have stars in the backline. When your mids are on top then the opposition take longer to go forward giving the defenders time to get numbers to the contest, in fact when your mids are on top then the whole team, forwards and backs, look much better. Quality rucks and mids are the key to the game. Now rucks is another story altogether....

Weren't both those games during the H&A season and not finals? Sorry, but it's completely different. Not sure who it was but there's a famous quote floating around about the real season starting in September, I think it was Kennedy or Jeans, but it's a concept that our club seems to miss. Without September success the H&A results are meaningless.

I've just reread my post and it did sound alot harsher than intended so I apologise, that wasn't my intent. The point that I've tried to get across (poorly) is that this current team (or analysing it over the last half a dozen years) has achieved very little. My interpretation of fan's opening post was that the 2007 results can be dismissed because of injuries and that we should base our ability on the 2006 results. Well, I was completely underwhelmed at the end of 2006 (if you want proof read this thread http://demonland.ugbox.net/forum/index.php...c=4769&hl=), if we start looking at 2006 then we really are going backwards. I'm hoping that within two years we'll be a completely different team to back then. Finishing 6 - 8 is absolutely nothing to be proud of, but what was more concerning over the three years you're referring to was our ability to completely drop our bundle in pressure games. Fan is saying that those results show that we're not as bad as people are making out, I'm saying that they definitely prove our reputation which is that we're a skilled team, but as soft as butter.

No [censored], that was my point. Being the 7th or 8th best team makes us average and hence we've overrated ourselves over the last half a decade.

In previous years Geelong had proven that they were capable of performing well in finals, we on the otherhand haven't shown anything since 2000. All Geelong had to do was rejig their team a bit in 2006, they took a step backwards to improve that extra 5%, and it paid off for them. Our problems are completely different though. No obvious successor for Neitz and White, and we continue to struggle against the better forwards, these problems haven't been isolated to 07. We made the finals, but so what? Half the teams in the competition get to play which means some mediocre and average teams get through, and sadly we were in that category. I believe that we've overrated our list for the last 4 years (the results prove my theory) and mature leaders has been our achilles heel.