Axis of Bob

Errr, you're missing the point. The recruiters watch these kids play footy and will be able to tell if they can kick/play. Speed and endurance is harder to pick up with the naked eye, so the Draft Camp is able to confirm their thoughts on these types of things. Draft Camp is just testing for physical and psychological attributes, as well as getting them all together.

If Sampi wanted to play footy desperately then he would have. As it is, he didn't. Martin has enormous potential as a marking power forward. His improvement has been marked over the last year at Sandy and he has attributes that we lack. He is an aggressive and genuinely powerful player who can take a mark. I'd rather have someone who has the ability to play AFL as well as the attitude to play AFL, rather than someone who has the ability but not the attitude. It's also much better for building a team to have a culture of hard work and selflessness, rather than laziness which can become infectious. It's an culture that we're trying to fix and we would only punt on Sampi if he could prove that he wanted to be part of it. He didn't.

I think that, while I agree that skills are very important in assessing a kid, that there are a lot of problems with what you have said. Firstly, Daniel Bell has never had a problem with his skills. His skills have always been very good. He needed to learn how to play football after growing up on a farm in SA and to improve his endurance. Arrowsmith's problem is his speed, not skills. Bellchamber's was his endurance. McGinnity is just a bit vanilla. The issue is more with the casual observer who looks more at results than forecasting that forward to AFL level. Looking at Bellchambers dominting the hitouts against Div 2 sides but still doing nothing around the ground. The questions then are, "will he be a dominant tap ruckman at AFL level?", "why isn't he doing anything around the ground?", "can we improve that?". Or with Arrowsmith it would be, "can we improve his pace to AFL standard?", "if not, what is his role?", "is he good enough for that role?". Also, it's easier for casual observers to look at Draft Camp results as then are quantitative measures, which is hard to obtain in a subjective field. But would you draft Donovan Bailey? Why not: He's 6'3, 95 kg and runs 100m in 9.8 seconds? A recruiter will look at him and tell you that he can't play footy. An internet critic will cite you his draft camp performance. Berts was an aerobic freak, but just couldn't play footy. He actually had decent skills but couldn't get near it.

Aaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Change! Horrible, horrible change!!!!!!! Get over it people. Change happens. I like the design.

I love you 'cause I have to - Dogs die in hot cars Clint Eastwood - Gorillaz "I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad I got sunshine, in a bag I'm useless, but not for long The future is coming on It's coming on It's coming on It's coming on"

Did we pick up Bate and Dunn early? I thought that Bate was expected to go to Colling at 10. The point is that none of us know whether they were picked earlier than we rated them. Only CAC knows that. Bigfooty consensus means jack.

Jarka, did we take Frawley early because we took him at 12 instead of 17? Did Carlton take Gibbs early because they took him at 1 instead of 2? How would you know?

Then, if the price depended on how many games your team played at the MCG, why wouldn't everyone just say that they barrack for Port Adelaide to pay the cheaper price, yet still being able to attend the same matches?

I'm just going to set the debate back, just to lay out the points of discussion. - Freak doesn't want Masten because he is rumoured to have OP. He has said that "he [Masten] is not the best available if he misses half of his career because of the OP tho..just like Luke Ball. " - I said that Luke Ball was the only player in the top 3 that was injury free, which included Luke Hodge who had OP. - Freak said that "Luke Hodge has chronic groin problems and while he is still a great player, he is playing at about 70% of his maximum. Since his 10 consecutive 30+ disposals games or whatever that he achieved 2 seasons ago i think, he has struggled to get to that level. " Now he is trying to argue that Hodge is a worse player now than he was in 2005. (As an aside, Hodge never had 10 consecutive 30+ disposal games as you claimed) Freak, I don't care if Hodge is better or worse than 2005. It makes no difference. Is Hodge a good player? Yes. Is he able to play full games in the midfield? Yes. Is Hodge one of the game's premier midfielders? Yes. I struggle to see how having a very good year, which wasn't quite as exceptional as 05 (not by much, either), is evidence that Hodge was a wasted pick. You even admitted that he is a star. You obviously would have picked Luke Ball if you had pick 1 in that draft because he wasn't injured at the time. Because "why would you want to touch a guy with OP?...seriously". Freak, if you make things up, you're going to get caught.

Freak, you say that Luke Ball has had his career ruined by OP. Want to know something funny? Before the 2001 draft, Luke Ball was free of injury and that was a major bonus for his prospects. That's because Chris Judd had had 2 shoulder reconstructions and Luke Hodge had .... wait for it .... Osteitis pubis! Both of those seem to have had relatively injury free careers. :D

Mini: How can you guarantee that? What makes him so good?

WAFL stats: Palmer - 17.9 ppg from 14 games Masten - 14.1 ppg from 15 games FWIW, I think Masten is a superior player (from very limited viewing). Palmer is a good, honest workhorse, while Masten has some genuine class.

As I said, until you have something interesting to say every intelligent poster on this site will continue to treat you with contempt. You don't care for Ferg or Godders, you only care about making a name for yourself. This is shown by you constantly bignoting yourself on other threads about your achievements. I don't care - nobody cares. People will judge you for what you bring to a discussion on these boards and you bring nothing but self-indulgent crap. You have raised this topic repeatedly and, frankly, you bore me. It has been shown that I am not alone in my views. BTW, I have received comebacks from some masters. Your's was just pathetic. Seriously lame. "You're just insecure about the fact that Melbourne will be flag-less unless we become miller-less." My god, what did that sound like in your head? Just tragic.

The MFC, for some time, has had a problem where we have been inconsistent. The basis for this is a culture of getting comfortable and not being hard enough on ourselves. Hence the wild fluctuations between seasons, games and within games themselves. TJ has been one of the biggest culprits, in that he goes from the ridiculous to the sublime, between and within games and seasons. Bailey has traded him out. Bailey is clearly looking to change the culture at the MFC to a successful and hard working one. It is no coincidence that in 2000, our best year, we prided ourselves on having a 'blue collar midfield'. The basis of this new culture is a hard working and determined group of players. Brad Miller is a hard working KPP with fantastic leadership qualities. He's someone that would really take on board and promote a new culture. TJ wouldn't care and would probably ignore it, being a bad influence on other players. Brad Miller is an example of the culture that we need at the club. While Miller isn't Wayne Carey in playing ability, he is a servicable, hard working and selfless player. Plus he's a great size with very good running ability. I am more than happy to have him playing for the MFC. The issue people have is that they misjudged him when he first burst onto the scene. People saw him as being a superstar CHF, when they failed to recognise him for exactly what he is: a determined, hardworking and selfless key position swing man with mediocre talent. As for Freak, he's just starting fires because he's struggling to make a name for himself with any other posts. If you posted anything interesting or meaningful then people would notice what you say, and you wouldn't have to start attention seeking threads like this or bignote yourself at every opportunity. Poor little boy.

Watts is as slow as a wet week. Big contested mark at junior level who can't get near it. And I think undeeniable was saying that 2 clubs wasted first round picks on him, and now he has been delisted. Stay away. I'm inclined to agree with him.

I have never had a problem with what TJ did when he had the ball. Pure genius. I had a problem with what he did when he didn't have the ball.

Actually, Ferg did well on Richo in his first ever preseason game for us. That said, Richo was W-O-E-F-U-L. I doubt that he'd have run more than 80 metres for the whole game.

Nicho was unfairly maligned on these boards in his year. He had limitations but he was a good defensive tall defender. He struggled with his kicking but, as a defender, he was good for us. His athleticism was under rated because of his build and style. Ferg, on the other hand, was over rated by many posters because his courage was so good and because his perceived problems were due to his slight frame which only required 'one big preseason in the gym'. The fact is that his deficiencies were of speed (which was nowhere near as good as Nicho) and his ability to defend his opponent (due to his ball watching tendencies). He read the play very well, but you couldn'ty play him on anyone because they would cut him up. He gave it a fair dip but just wasn't good enough in the end. I wish him the best of luck in the future.

St Kilda just want someone to play ruck so that Kosi doesn't get killed by having to play in the ruck with his fragile body.

Everyone keeps saying "don't trade player X because a new coach might get the best out of him". The new coach is trading them because he feels that there is more to his trading than keeping him. Bailey wants to start with a list that has the attributes that he wants, and he'll go to the draft to get that if he has to.

About as often as a Justin Westhoff falls to pick 71.

Are the people complaining the same people who trot out the tried and true "we are always accepting mediocrity" line? I'd say it probably is. The fact is that TJ is a supremely gifted player who does not affect the game as often as he should. And he is the style of player who needs to be very damaging offensively because he doesn't do much defensively at all. It looks like Bailey is focussing on a team who works hard both ways: attack and defence. TJ doesn't do that and Bailey obviously doesn't think he can change the way he plays. I'll back him to the hilt on that.

What was that, old?

I'd look at it, but say no. A lot also depends on how confident we are on Rivers' injury situation. Reilly is a good player, and a player that I think would be useful to us. Pick 10 is also a good pick. Meesen being thrown in is neither here nor there. The price is good, but Rivers is too important to our defence. Although the game is changing somewhat and Rivers could possibly become decreasingly effective. It's certainly an interesting idea, but I think Rivers is too important to our structure.

So could Simon Godfrey.