hemingway

I agree with most of you what you have said. Like you, I know many people who have been through a lot worse than Jesse. What is tough for one person is not tough for another. Some are more resilient than others. Different personalities, different mental health conditions, and different coping abilities all play a role. One difference is that Hogan's problems are played out in the media and on social media. Step outside your front door and there is a jerk with a phone or camera. Judgments are then made by footy media, supporters and trolls. For someone that is naturally shy this can be an enormous burden. He wants to be a footballer not someone who is a media personality. Okay that goes with the territory but some cope with that attention better than others. Is that a flaw or just the way a person is ? Most people want to go about their life or business unobtrusively without being in the spotlight and without their life being open to scrutiny and comment from all and sundry. So I have sympathy for Hogan as I do for all those with mental health issues. Sympathy or understanding can be present irrespective of the circumstances. There are social misfits that don't deserve sympathy or compassion such as murderers, rapists and those who do harm to others. Hogan is not one of those. The sad thing is that he is only harming himself. We all have our demons and some can cope with them better than others.

Well said. Also sometimes the attributes that drive success are not necessarily very nice ones. The single minded drive and selfishness that drives top sportsmen and individuals across all fields in society does not always make them nice people.

Well done and well said. Nothing vanilla about your sensibility.

Proudly outed as a quality country member.

Agree Smokey, some really good points. Drug taking in all its forms does not discriminate on grounds of gender, age or social class. I have lived in country towns and cities and it is destroying the fabric of both. As time goes on and nothing changes in terms of government policy, more and more criminals are encouraged to get involved in sourcing, making and distributing drugs, with violence and reprisals a daily reality. I know of one country town where locals are afraid to walk the streets after dark and where farmers in the region cannot sell their farms or pass them on to their sons because many of the sons have become addicts. This occurring after the crims moved in to town and started distributing to the teenagers. Until we treat it first and foremost as a health issue and decriminalise its use, we will never win the war or begin to reduce the users and the suppliers. It will continue to grow and create ever increasing social problems. There are problems in the short-term in decriminalising its use, but unless societies make radical changes rather than piecemeal changes, we are in for a very bleak future.

That's a worry, we need to sign this boy up. Always a concern with the Pies and Eddie Underhand.

Well the German name Helmut does mean Helmet in English.

What the hell was Clarry doing in Middle Camberwell ? Did he get lost coming off the Hume from Mooroopna.? Came off the Ring Road and headed down Burke Road until he landed in Barry Humphries old hood. We don't want a country boy like Clarry being identified with Camberwell. No vanilla type bushies. By the way Pineapple Only a true Camberwelltonian calls Middle Camberwell, Middle Camberwell. Woolworths was once Angus Tuckerbag run by Geoff Angus ex Hawks Footballer and Premiership player and prior to that Geoff's dad who ran a small licenced grocer for 50 years.

Yeah he always found a player alright not always near the ball.

True enough Junior, Williams was similar, but I regard Williams as odious, given his on-field antics.

I went to Shepparton to look at a couple of players close-up. Oliver was one of those players. He may not be a brilliant high mark or play with the dash of others. He is not a Dusty Martin or a Robert Flower but as I watched the game I began to realize that this son of Mooroopna is already one of the great players of the MFC and a future great of the game. Outstanding people in life have a unique set of skills that set them apart from others. It is an hereditary trait. It can't be practiced or copied. If you think of all the great footballers over time, they were unique and special. The Tigers have Dusty and we had Robert Flower. When thinking of Flower it is with the privileged memory of a player whose like we will never see again. We have some great young footballers. However, they do not all possess a distinguishing characteristic that makes the way they play unique. Angus Brayshaw is a ball magnet but I would not walk over hot coals to watch him play. But I would walk over hot coals to watch Oliver. Wiseblood, Clint and Tony have described his attributes perfectly. What amazes me watching him is his mind-body connection. The speed of his brain, the assessment of the situation, the decision making and the speed in which he uses his body and hands to possess the ball and do something with it is unbelievable until you see it. He is so quick that unless you are fully focussed, you miss it. And this speed means that his opponents miss it and also miss his delivery. You don't know where the ball is going to go. As others have pointed out he is often to quick for his team mates. As a result of his unique skills, Oliver is almost impossible for opponents to counter and match up, at least for the whole game. Oliver may be held or his influence reduced, but he will still manage to break out and do something special. His speed of decision making and action is something that I have not seen before. It is beyond belief.

Cotchin is starting to annoy me. Did you see the hairstyle and get up? Not your typical Tiger thats for sure.

No hosanna in excelsis for you Red ? If Dusty can develop a spiritual life there is hope for all of us. Certainly nothing spiritual about a banana, only sense gratification.

Sorry to be pedantic Sir (although I was reading yesterday, how the use of this term is not PC), but Lance Armstrong was the most professional of all the professionals on the world cycling tour and weighed his own food before each meal . He was absolutely obsessed and scrupulous with his training and preparation but had no problem doping.

Very balanced OD. I feel the same way, although if MFC enjoys a sustained period of success and wins a flag, this may change!

Definitely (c)

Your almost as old, creaky and dusty as me OD. As Leonard said to Marianne, i'm just behind you, if you stretch out your hand I will touch it. Hopefully plenty of celebratory single malts this season.

Good points. If you do not submit or agree to be drug tested, you should not be allowed to play. Otherwise, players and managers will exploit the rules. Imagine, a sprinter in the final of an Olympic 100m final refusing a drug test on the grounds of mental health. A cyclist in the TDF arguing that he can't be drug tested because he suffers from anxiety etc.etc etc. Serious mental health issues need to be taken seriously and treated, but it has nothing to do with drug testing..

I know what you mean, my past wives and mistresses suggested the same thing. Really a win win.

In that case, perhaps you can have a long sojourn from March 23 to September 29.

Interesting discussion. From childhood we are taught that cheating is wrong. Therefore, the majority view the taking of performance enhancing substances as cheating. And we pass judgement. Cheats are people that break the rules. But it is not that simple. Some substances are banned, some not. Sports scientists around the world are always looking to find or develop substances that improve performance. When steroids were exposed the science and the sportspeople had moved on to EPO, and, later still, growth hormone and similar substances. So the line between banned and non banned substances is thin, despite the fact that non banned substances may improve performance. Caffeine for example. But we don't regard drinking coffee or taking caffeine pills before an event as cheating. Most sports participants consume or take supplements that they think will improve performance and the chance of winning. Some are banned, some not. Often the moral question is blurred by the view that everyone else is doing it, therefore making it more acceptable. In regard to illicit recreational drugs, there are those that think it is wrong and should be punished. And in most cases it is a criminal offence. There are others that regard taking drugs as a normal and acceptable pastime. The use of marijuana is a case in point. Marijuana can be pleasurable and safe for some and also can assist those in pain and with mental illness. Yet at the same time, it can damage peoples health and well being. In some cases these recreational drugs can improve physical performance. In other cases, it can adversely affect performance. What's, the answer ? Like all health issues, information and education can assist. Drug testing and punishment only goes so far and will never eradicate the behaviour. Human nature being what it is, many will continue to take substances that make themselves feel better, improve performance and in the case of sport, give themselves an advantage, whether it is viewed as cheating or not In some cases, it can lead to the ravages of addiction. Cousins is an example of a life destroyed.

You make some good points. We are all biased to a degree but I have confidence in club culture and the standards set by leaders such as Jones, Viney, Jetta etc. Both the perception and inside goss is that these guys are absolute leaders and sticklers about standards and having professional behaviours. They are squeaky clean guys who do not stand for sub standard behaviour. And we have seen their influence on the kids and one or two trades.

No institution willingly submits to an independent umpire unless it is imposed on them and they see there is no choice. We have all seen the consequences of self-regulation. It is biased and a recipe for abuse or at least minimum adherence. Without ASADA, what would have happened at EFC?

Many sports bodies such as the AFL are conflicted. They don't want the sport tarnished with the words drug use, doping, illicit drug use, drug cheats etc. It damages the sport, the individuals and as they say these days, it damages the product morally, ethically and financially. So they adopt a no-drugs policy and put into place rules and procedures to police drug use. On the other hand, sports bodies hope and pray that teams and individuals don't get caught. The response of sports bodies has differed over recent years. In cycling and most Olympic sports, testing, monitoring and surveillance has significantly increased over recent years with a real effort being made to catch drug cheats. Rigorous testing procedures have been introduced to make it ever more difficult to cheat without the increased risk of being caught. However, many team based sports including football, basketball and even cricket have lax drug policies and procedures that make it less likely that offenders will be caught and punished. The AFL "go lightly" approach has been influenced by the players association and those who accept the need for a policy but don't want a rigorous testing regime that might actually catch offenders (and damage the brand). It was not long ago that a certain AFL head honcho, repeatedly stated that unlike sports such as cycling and athletics, AFL did not have a problem. Well your not going to identify if there is a problem, when the policy and testing regime is so loose that you can drive a truck through. However, it maintained a very convenient image for the sport. The other problem in sport is that the nature of drug use has changed In the past, drug use was associated with using banned substances that provided a competitive advantage/resulting in cheating. A la Lance Armstrong, Russian and Chinese athletes, EFC and so on. The use of substances that assist in gaining a competitive advantage remains a problem. However, in recent years, we have witnessed an explosion in the use of substances (like coke and ice) for recreational pleasure, This is a massive problem as it now exists in epidemic proportions right through society. The task of monitoring social use is nigh impossible because it is so widespread and the drugs do not stay in the system. At a sports level, we know that athletes and players use substances for pleasure and because they can get away with it. They will not get caught (unless their stupid enough to be filmed) and it allows them to use drugs without interfering in training, recovery and playing. There is no sports body that can deal with this epidemic. It is a criminal, social and health issue across the land and the globe that we are all living with. And any effort to control or arrest this spread of illicit substances is virtually impossible unless supply is cut off and ordinary people stop using them. No doubt there are folks on this site who enjoy and are addicted to recreational drugs, just as hundreds of thousands of citizens are addicted to pain killing narcotics and prescribed drugs such as endone, oxycontin, morphine and codeine.

Agreed OD, we are at GP for the present, but Pert is there to find us a home. But it is going to be difficult with Yarra Park seemingly unacceptable. Taking public land is a problem and going to draw major objections from many. Although this did not stop Collingwood or Tennis Australia on their occupation and expansion on public hand. But I reckon the bird has flown. The reality is that most public land in central Melbourne is simply not there other than existing established parkland. And it's going to be difficult to fund the acquisition of private land. In addition, central Melbourne and suburban Melbourne (other than outer Melbourne) have simply run out of space. Perhaps, the Club could take over an existing suburban footy ground and develop it as a community asset a la the Bulldogs. However, we already have Casey. So from a practical and financial viewpoint Casey is the obvious location. We have already spent a lot of money and invested in community and municipal relationship building. I don't know about the availability of space at Docklands, but this is the other obvious location if you wanted a site in central Melbourne. Docklands is now an extension of Melbourne central and become a commercial and residential hub serviced by trams and Southern Cross. Supporter viewpoints are influenced by where they live and what they consider as their "hood." Folks living out East will prefer Casey to Docklands but not folks from the West or North. I use Southern Cross regularly, so Docklands would be my preference but there you go. I would go to Docklands but not to Casey. The end result will occur from a balance of financial and community considerations, together with Government/municipal approval, and planning approvals etc. Outcomes will need to be negotiated and compromises reached. That tells you that the outcome is not going to be perfect. Consider the Hawks. They went from Glenferrie Oval to Waverley Park and now to Dingley.