hemingway

Your almost as old, creaky and dusty as me OD. As Leonard said to Marianne, i'm just behind you, if you stretch out your hand I will touch it. Hopefully plenty of celebratory single malts this season.

Good points. If you do not submit or agree to be drug tested, you should not be allowed to play. Otherwise, players and managers will exploit the rules. Imagine, a sprinter in the final of an Olympic 100m final refusing a drug test on the grounds of mental health. A cyclist in the TDF arguing that he can't be drug tested because he suffers from anxiety etc.etc etc. Serious mental health issues need to be taken seriously and treated, but it has nothing to do with drug testing..

I know what you mean, my past wives and mistresses suggested the same thing. Really a win win.

In that case, perhaps you can have a long sojourn from March 23 to September 29.

Interesting discussion. From childhood we are taught that cheating is wrong. Therefore, the majority view the taking of performance enhancing substances as cheating. And we pass judgement. Cheats are people that break the rules. But it is not that simple. Some substances are banned, some not. Sports scientists around the world are always looking to find or develop substances that improve performance. When steroids were exposed the science and the sportspeople had moved on to EPO, and, later still, growth hormone and similar substances. So the line between banned and non banned substances is thin, despite the fact that non banned substances may improve performance. Caffeine for example. But we don't regard drinking coffee or taking caffeine pills before an event as cheating. Most sports participants consume or take supplements that they think will improve performance and the chance of winning. Some are banned, some not. Often the moral question is blurred by the view that everyone else is doing it, therefore making it more acceptable. In regard to illicit recreational drugs, there are those that think it is wrong and should be punished. And in most cases it is a criminal offence. There are others that regard taking drugs as a normal and acceptable pastime. The use of marijuana is a case in point. Marijuana can be pleasurable and safe for some and also can assist those in pain and with mental illness. Yet at the same time, it can damage peoples health and well being. In some cases these recreational drugs can improve physical performance. In other cases, it can adversely affect performance. What's, the answer ? Like all health issues, information and education can assist. Drug testing and punishment only goes so far and will never eradicate the behaviour. Human nature being what it is, many will continue to take substances that make themselves feel better, improve performance and in the case of sport, give themselves an advantage, whether it is viewed as cheating or not In some cases, it can lead to the ravages of addiction. Cousins is an example of a life destroyed.

You make some good points. We are all biased to a degree but I have confidence in club culture and the standards set by leaders such as Jones, Viney, Jetta etc. Both the perception and inside goss is that these guys are absolute leaders and sticklers about standards and having professional behaviours. They are squeaky clean guys who do not stand for sub standard behaviour. And we have seen their influence on the kids and one or two trades.

No institution willingly submits to an independent umpire unless it is imposed on them and they see there is no choice. We have all seen the consequences of self-regulation. It is biased and a recipe for abuse or at least minimum adherence. Without ASADA, what would have happened at EFC?

Many sports bodies such as the AFL are conflicted. They don't want the sport tarnished with the words drug use, doping, illicit drug use, drug cheats etc. It damages the sport, the individuals and as they say these days, it damages the product morally, ethically and financially. So they adopt a no-drugs policy and put into place rules and procedures to police drug use. On the other hand, sports bodies hope and pray that teams and individuals don't get caught. The response of sports bodies has differed over recent years. In cycling and most Olympic sports, testing, monitoring and surveillance has significantly increased over recent years with a real effort being made to catch drug cheats. Rigorous testing procedures have been introduced to make it ever more difficult to cheat without the increased risk of being caught. However, many team based sports including football, basketball and even cricket have lax drug policies and procedures that make it less likely that offenders will be caught and punished. The AFL "go lightly" approach has been influenced by the players association and those who accept the need for a policy but don't want a rigorous testing regime that might actually catch offenders (and damage the brand). It was not long ago that a certain AFL head honcho, repeatedly stated that unlike sports such as cycling and athletics, AFL did not have a problem. Well your not going to identify if there is a problem, when the policy and testing regime is so loose that you can drive a truck through. However, it maintained a very convenient image for the sport. The other problem in sport is that the nature of drug use has changed In the past, drug use was associated with using banned substances that provided a competitive advantage/resulting in cheating. A la Lance Armstrong, Russian and Chinese athletes, EFC and so on. The use of substances that assist in gaining a competitive advantage remains a problem. However, in recent years, we have witnessed an explosion in the use of substances (like coke and ice) for recreational pleasure, This is a massive problem as it now exists in epidemic proportions right through society. The task of monitoring social use is nigh impossible because it is so widespread and the drugs do not stay in the system. At a sports level, we know that athletes and players use substances for pleasure and because they can get away with it. They will not get caught (unless their stupid enough to be filmed) and it allows them to use drugs without interfering in training, recovery and playing. There is no sports body that can deal with this epidemic. It is a criminal, social and health issue across the land and the globe that we are all living with. And any effort to control or arrest this spread of illicit substances is virtually impossible unless supply is cut off and ordinary people stop using them. No doubt there are folks on this site who enjoy and are addicted to recreational drugs, just as hundreds of thousands of citizens are addicted to pain killing narcotics and prescribed drugs such as endone, oxycontin, morphine and codeine.

Agreed OD, we are at GP for the present, but Pert is there to find us a home. But it is going to be difficult with Yarra Park seemingly unacceptable. Taking public land is a problem and going to draw major objections from many. Although this did not stop Collingwood or Tennis Australia on their occupation and expansion on public hand. But I reckon the bird has flown. The reality is that most public land in central Melbourne is simply not there other than existing established parkland. And it's going to be difficult to fund the acquisition of private land. In addition, central Melbourne and suburban Melbourne (other than outer Melbourne) have simply run out of space. Perhaps, the Club could take over an existing suburban footy ground and develop it as a community asset a la the Bulldogs. However, we already have Casey. So from a practical and financial viewpoint Casey is the obvious location. We have already spent a lot of money and invested in community and municipal relationship building. I don't know about the availability of space at Docklands, but this is the other obvious location if you wanted a site in central Melbourne. Docklands is now an extension of Melbourne central and become a commercial and residential hub serviced by trams and Southern Cross. Supporter viewpoints are influenced by where they live and what they consider as their "hood." Folks living out East will prefer Casey to Docklands but not folks from the West or North. I use Southern Cross regularly, so Docklands would be my preference but there you go. I would go to Docklands but not to Casey. The end result will occur from a balance of financial and community considerations, together with Government/municipal approval, and planning approvals etc. Outcomes will need to be negotiated and compromises reached. That tells you that the outcome is not going to be perfect. Consider the Hawks. They went from Glenferrie Oval to Waverley Park and now to Dingley.

Wagner and Beethoven are bullocking Germans who command the ball as inside players either in the midfield or down the spine, with the fleet footed Puccini and Verdi avoiding physical contact using their sublime foot skills on the outside at wing or half forward.

A future at Goschs Paddock is not a future. No security of tenure, a gym complex shared by others and no sense that we have a training or high class facility. Just not sustainable. Location is great but it’s not going to happen there. We missed out on other key venues such as the Olympic Complex and like all other clubs bar Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton we will have to compromise. It’s about having control over our own first rate professional set up, it’s not about a social club that will only appeal to a few lonely middle aged males.

Reckon your right Bub.

Oh, I thought Red and Mrs Leg were looking for a new home! Thought he was downsizing or looking to expand to house lots of other Legs.

Oh, I see. What suburb are you looking in Red? Inner hipsville, old money or new money suburb, comfortable old middle class suburb, outer aspirational suburb, or new corridor growth suburb ? Obviously near a very good greengrocer that can source the best bananas.

Thanks Dee, I was feeling like a fool. I agree his disposal was not good but it was his intensity and hardness at the ball that I liked and I remember thinking that this was the new type we were recruiting and developing. But lost track of him and unlike others did not see anything of him in the VFL.

You have not mentioned my favourite Wagner. Richard was very versatile and able to play a variety of roles. His skills were sublime, his intensity and commitment renowned, and he was able to perform on the big stage when it counted. Unfortunately, he was a bit of a prima donna who had a habit of rubbing up his team mates the wrong way. So he was not a great team player as he always demanded the ball and did not like team mates getting in his way. He also attracted some undesirable fans including a bloke called Adolf and his cheer squad. But when he played, he was sublime.

No need to get Cranky Franky. Happy to bow to greater knowledge but I was only interested in getting some comments. I was referring to his 2016 season when he played half a dozen or more senior games. He lacked polish but seemed to be a goer. At that time the club must have thought that he was half decent. And he has been retained on the list. By the way I simply said that I liked what I saw, nothing about being great.

AF, it matters little that you were on record as being negative about this guy. The fact is that you had lots of friends. Many informed Demon fans were dubious about Melksham and there were many Bomber supporters who told us that we had picked up a dud. Also since coming over to MFC, Jake has had his moments and played some very poor games. I remember sitting in the stands at the beginning of last season and cursing him as he appeared so slow and appeared to lack effort and intensity. Lets face it, he had been in the system a long time and had a less than stellar career. He got better as the season progressed and blossomed in the second half. It is the second half of the season that really turned around opinion on his footy and his impact on games. It shows how coaches influence the careers of players. Giving a player the right support, encouragement and the confidence can make or break careers. At times, it appeared that Goodwin was gifting him games. Another one in that category was Neal-Bullen. However, Goodwin got it right on both counts. Let's face it, sometimes people surprise us. Too often we pass judgement prematurely or unfairly on others. We get it wrong. We would live in a much better world if there were more people who were prepared to say "I/we got it wrong". Imagine if we had Governments, political leaders and community leaders with the honesty and guts to say we were wrong. Imagine the improvement to personal relationships if admitting to wrong opinions and wrong doing was the rule rather than the exception.

I would also add his brother Josh. Contrary to many on this site, I liked what I saw with Josh. Thought he showed promise but lost his way last season. A little rough around the edges but had a manic attack on the ball and opponent.

Remember seeing him play against the Dees in his first season (I think) and thought he was one hell of a tough and aggressive kid. Not only no backward steps but a provocative in your face kid. Also remember thinking how like Essendon and how unlike any young Melbourne player. Of course, I disliked him immediately as a total prat. Now it's very nice to see him in the face of our opponents. In a team with others who are no longer the hunted but are now the hunters.

Always thought Ron was an oldie, well middle-aged although he does at time exhibit the naive, enthusiastic and emotional responses of youth. Thought crossed my mind that it could be the second or third, but the Maldives does suggest youthful spontaneity and a desire to please. The unforgettable honeymoon that becomes forgettable if like a candle, the initial bright flame of love slowly flickers before being extinguished by boredom or unfaithfulness.

Sorry to interrupt the Tiger Beers and playing Twister with your loved one...........but correction, I meant wife not new wife. When I use the word wife I usually use the plural.

Ron, I think you must be the best lover on Demonland. Now adding a new wife to your list of other loves. Keep loving Ron, it must be in your DNA. Your last sentence does suggest honeymoon euphoria. After all my marriages and liaisons, I can tell you, it does wear off.

If the intent is to mould a closely bonded team, with the players playing for one another and the coach, and doing all those team things in a game, I would choose...........................

Needs to be split up due to age, demographic, religious or non religious beliefs, behaviour, manner of speech, intelligence, education, social class, residential address, special interests, gender, alcohol and illicit drug preferences, etc.