Rhino Richards

Agree. And to the think that an AFL team coaching panel would be thrown off course by the inclusion of someone off the mergency list beggars belief. BTW, there was comment that Spencer was not right leading up to the Pies game.

As I said you dont know what the AFL will do and they have had no recent track record for handling this responsibly or decisively. The draft penalties on Carlton were crippling and floored the Club far worse than point stripping. There is no evidence that the AFL are adept at handling such a difficult matter. By your own beliefs, the AFL dont want to investigate Carlton who you also believe to be rorting the system. So I am not sure why you preach the wonders of the AFL Your claims are pretentious and unfounded. And a lack of precedent is never a sound basis for not doing something. I would have thought that the stripping of the points is a minor matter. The stripping of the premierships and past trophies is significant. I note that Host Plus, Members Equity and another small sponsor have immediately severed their sponsorship and are appalled with what has happened. I guess they dont like walnuts. You just cant hide from this fraudulent and dishonest behavior to the extent and level this has been done. This is triggering investigations in other NRL Clubs and has spread to the AFL.

I understand where you are coming from but it should be remembered than despite the challenges, Jurrah is an elder in his community and from all reports comes across as a natural and responsible individual who loves playing footy. Its pity the AFL does not have more of his type of character. All power to him. I look forward to his return.

Under the statute of limitations of 7 years do the AFL and St Kilda have access to all the records necessary to make an investigation. Is there any requirement for Clubs to hold it longer? Many companies archive after 1 years and trash transaction records after 7 years.

The level to which they have gone and extent and the impact on the competition. Firstly you refer to the alleged activities at Carlton and then you challenge me to tell you there isnt a rort there? I dont know and neither do you despite your pretentions otherwise. The AFL is hardly beating its chest. Its got an issue with St Kilda and I understand an ex Storm person of interest is now with North. The AFL knows the drastic issue NRL is facing even if you dont. If anything Vlad has been rightfully poker faced. Once again you dont know despite your satisfaction with a grip on the goolies. Its been 9 years since the last salary cap breach with Carlton and its taken all that time for them to recover. The draft pick penalties on both Carlton and Melbourne were savage and cut deeper than losing current season's points. Both Codes are well aware of the need to have healthy team. Storm and NRL is owned by News Ltd and this last episode may encourage them to no longer bankroll a destroyed brank and walk away from their NRL holding.

The names you list are the exception out of alot of crud that goes nowhere in the AFL. If a PSD pick who has not played AFL before does get to AFL level as a productive footballer then that an achievement particularly given the background to Jurrah. Culturally and sporting wise he has developed outside the "system" of AFL. In addition given the high number of players that have gone through the PSD and done nothing, the list of names you give represent a low number and exceptions to the rule. The PSD is not the goldmine people think. As a result I think the recruiting team should be congratulated for that notwithstanding what the future holds. In 9 games he has been exciting and is a definite talent that can make it. I look forward to him to doing it.

The issue and the extent at St Kilda is far different to Storm. Firstly the issue with the Storm is the amount and the manner in which this is done. Storm were not a burgeoning team but an on field powerhouse that was aided by the flagrant breach the rules that did not give extra amounts. THere is not much difference about the AFL and NRL. Vlad has said that the AFL would not hesitate to strip premierships in a similar situation. They were extremely harsh on Carlton with draft penalties. It could happen in the AFL just like the NRL. There seems no place for any hubris in regard this matter.

How many PSD picks go on to being good footballers let alone actually play an AFL game? The selection took some guts. I think he is a wonderful recruit with strong prospects. I can think of many PSD picks that are just ordinary and not AFL standard

I have posted something to that effect based all the information overnight. I think you are quite correct. Everyone from the Chairman down to the boot studder is under review for the way they handled their functions. This will take years to finalise. I think you did. The rorting went from 2005 to 2010. You only prescribed a penalty in regard the 4 games this year. In effect your saying the NRL do nothing in regard the years where Premierships were won by cheating. The competition has been severely undermined by the actions of Storm. The extent of the cheating by one club has been brazen, systematic and possibly involving criminal behaviour. It completely undermines the integrity of the competition. And its a walnut! If David Gallop took that approach News Ltd would rightly run him out of town for being asleep at the wheel. Its a disaster. Demetiou would be fool to think so simplistically. What would happen if a whistleblower announced that Geelong has systematically rorted the cap over the same period? A case of there by the grace of God goes Vlad. By the way, the issue has spread to another Code re payments made to Everitt at St Kilda while Waldron was involved. Lucky its only a walnut... Phew!!!!

It was hardly common sense as a number of other Clubs had looked at Jurrah and taken all the related risks as being too high. There was no surety that Jurrah would either cut in AFL or in the big city. Hardly common sense but a careful assessment of the cost benefit and the recruiting team should be congratulated for it.

Maybe Carlton are. But its just opinion, rumour and scuttlebutt until proven. Storm will raise the probity of all clubs and the assurance by Leagues to ensure they comply. A better definition of "having your head in the sand" I have yet to see. The NRL received a credible whistleblower that the Storm had systematically cheated the system for five years. Penalising them of premiership points for the current year would have been slapping them with a silk glove and washing it under the mat. Comprehensive assessment there.

I dont think the AFL would have a choice if they were faced with a rort of this magnitude. The Storm penalty sets the bar of how you treat with breaches of the cap. There is no way the AFL or any league could cut corners or go underground to resolve these matters. If it did the media and the community would be rightfully calling for blood at the highest level. I believe the NRL acted the way it did to make a clean hard break from this matter. If they hadnt acted on the Premierships then they would have all been tainted and NRL being seen to condone what has happened.

You reckon. Its a sport with a NSW base. But the inmplications move beyond that. And any NRL follower will half a brain will realise this is bad for the Code. The ramifications of the Storm will open the challenging of AFL and A League to validate that there is no rorting in their Code clubs. The Cronulla Sharks debacle was sooooo Sydney. This is story which cuts across all professional spectator sports.

You could debate point 2 as well

The NRL have acted drastically, decisively and angrily to the culture of the LT cheating and rorting at Storm. It was deliberate, systematic and substantial. If they were serious about making the sport "honest" then they had little choice. Anything less would have dragged the whole competition into the quagmire. Storm won all its titles dishonestly and their victories tainted. People who complain about what this does for NRL's interests have completely missed the point. If they had let the commercial interest of a base ahead of the need to expunge the cancer now revealed then the NRL would have been history. Storm are about to be taken through a forensic audit examination, police enquiry, NRL investigation, ATO investigation and possible civil and criminal penalties to one or more persons. It will be a playground for lawyers. Complaints that taking away their points for future games is draconian need not worry. There will be so many off the ground distractions to the Storm coaches and players that it wont matter. News Ltd, Storm's owner have a massive financial hole caused by the penalties and loss of supporters and sponsors. They will need to prop Storm up in the short term. They will also need to completely replace the Storm Board who will need to also need to mea culpa over this as the guardians of the Clubs interest. Some of the directors will also have their public careers blotted by their involvement at Storm. Indeed News and NRL will be under fire as the level of control and probity they have had. However it is hard to undertake this when one or more persons has wilfully and repeatedly abused the system. Host Plus will hold a press conference today and will no doubt seek to end their association with a cheat. Given all the media trouble with NRL and AFL clubs, its got me baffled why entities with high community intentions and standards like TAC and Host Plus align themselves with a sports "brand" that can easily compromise their interest. For Host Plus, the Storm issue is a complete compromise to their regulatory and governance standards. Waldron and other directly involved are legally and commercial toxic. Most should scramble for lawyers. But its not just them. All the investigations to be held will put into question, directors, coaches, player managers and officials. In fact aanyone who has known of this or has any way facilitated any payment or transaction as part of this. Credibility and integrity are going to tested and the guilt by association will be significant. Whether Storm survives or not (and there is grounds that through the hell they will go through that they might not) this NRL decision sets a standard and sends an unequivocal and clear message....you cheat the rules and you are dead meat. If there were any future examples whether they be in NRL, AFL or elsewhere, punishment that is seen to lenient realitive to the extent of matter will be absolutely pillared in the media and the community at large.

Wow. Devastating stuff! In essence you have told us nothing and wondered why you bothered at all? Dodgy source and so what information. Cliff from Clematis on the Coodabeens had more reliable sources and info.

Storm have breached NRL rules not broken the law! Its the AFL equivalent of Geelong systematically rorting the cap and winning 2 flags. I wonder if Vlad is thinking...(Could Visy be....?) I dont like league. I have no respect for the competition but.... I can think of a sport (called it a brand) that has worked so hard to absolutely destroy itself amongst its supporters, the media and the wider community. Its a wonderful case study in sustained disaster!

I agree with Titan. However I did not expect any changes this week.

Can all posters please get back to the topic of the great Jordan McMahon? I am tired of deleting some of the posts that are clearly inappropriate.

I dont think so. Richmond was a game we did not want to win. We did everything not to win that game despite the opposition. It would have been a potential disaster for us Freo were 5 times worse than Rich and we would have had to manufacture something even more extreme than in the Tigers game.

If we did not get the PP last year we would have had only pick 1. With pick 1 we would have taken Scully...thus we would not have had Trengove. Jordan McMahon was another disasterous list decision by Wallet and Miller. Their scars will sit with Richmond for many years. I am not surprised Hardwick would not warm to McMahon. But on Sunday, he could not have done worse than some of the crud they had out there.

Thanks Cards. I was more critical of inferences about Aussie and that all injuries with the proper treatment can be fixed.

While Mono is slightly unfair on Jones, his comment on the importance of finals pressure is spot on. We need to see whether the form exhibited by Jones against lowly Crows and Tigers is continued against better teams. But September football is a different level of football to the H&A games. Its more intense and theres more pressure and front runners like Davis and Didak get found out badly. Jones has time to improve. He has been better this year but must maintain and raise the level with the crop of talented players we have coming through.

So we trade a first round pick for an underperforming, ordinary injury ridden ruck from Essendon? Doh! Dont we already have 3 injury struck ruckman on our list at the moment? If we have Jamar as the No 1 ruckman why would we punt our first round pick on a 28 year old injury riddled ruckman from Brisbane who has not an effective role there for 2 years and is unlikely to overcome Clark and Leuey. And if we are playing Jamar and have Charman as No 2 back up ruck then how does it give the young players confidence when it snuffs their opportunity. And if Charman is not competing for that role and is at Casey, I could not think a bigger waste of your first round pick. Its the lopsided same value proposition as swapping Trengove at year end for a 4th round pick.

Agree. A good summary of matters. While Batram is playing well, I am not sure who is really challenging him for the small defender role. Bennell is not accountable up back. Strauss is still learning. Cheney lacks pace. Agree with you on Dunn though.