Rhino Richards

Was never going to win after a shell lacking like we got on the w/end. His time will come.

I have answered where I took it from. I used Brent Harvey as an example of being publicly critical of players that does not work and was not comparing it to what you said. Yes he indeed he should. This loss reflects on everyone at the Club. And Stynes as he does well has managed the message really well. The fact of the matter that everyone wears a loss like that. Its not the ownership of one individual in the FD. However behind closed doors the examination should be thorough and ruthless. A post match press conference is not the place for that to happen. Stynes did very well passing appropriate comments to reflect the internal and external frustrarion and disappointment of the performance. Stynes and McLardy may well have spoken to the group/individuals about how appalling and unacceptable performance was. And good on them if they have. If the players have not grasp the necessary requirements without contrived statements at a media circus after the game then they never will and should be moved on.

FWIW, Iva you have come onto this thread attacking me and making references at me being a politician.The joke of it is that I complemented MFC about their media management by going through Stynes and then you came on said Jimmy Stynes was the one to make the statement. The Rah Rah was in reference to your unnecessary snipe and then agreement with my comment. If anyone has resorted to spin Iva, its your tender self. I note your past hissy fits had resulted in your promising never to post here again. I hope we are not witnessing a similar meltdown.

Dont you think that the players are advised this face to face and at training and at team meetings? How are they being protected from external expectations? They face it from the media (just read Sheahan), they face it from the supporters that confront them every time they step into the public. I dont think its appropriate for the coach at a post match presser to shame, criticise or belittle individual or team performance. BTW, Brent Harvey's post match burst was absolutely slayed in the press in the following days as being ungracious, unprofessional and ill thought. His comments may have been apt. They were delivered in the wrong forum. "Someone at the club needed to say it. There's no one better to say it than the man himself. All we'd heard from the FD was how great a side the Hawks are. " I took that statement to infer that FD should have made critical comments about the performance. BTW, I think thats why DB is so dead pan at pressers. He does not give any oxygen to a media pack that is ready to jump on any comment that is remotely critical and make a bonfire out of it. I am sure DB is not so reserved behind closed doors with the players.

And that's why Jimmy Stynes press release is good media management at this point in time. The most positive, assertive and emphatic stand the Club can make is in the performances that come forth in the coming weeks. Not in the media controlled circus of a press conference. And contrary to what you are saying a few posters do indeed expect the coach to criticise the players at the Press conference. You should follow the discussion more closely.

If we drop either game then the wolves will be out internally before the Press get to the post match conference. Jimmy's presser was issued partly to give you some of the salve you require. Good luck. Well thought and written. Like many I share your frustration

Why cant the Coach tell the players (in no uncertain terms) behind closed doors that the performance is poor and that puts the onus on the players? Are the players going to say until I read it in the Press "it aint so"? Why give the Media any extra ammunition? The best way a coach can influence the perception of your side is on the field. Not through soapy admissions at Press conference. If coach has to resort to baking his players individually or in groups through the media...then it is indeed time to get a new coach.

Can you identify who in the Club is tolerating these performances meekly? And how does the handling of the loss by the MFC including the Presidents aptly delivered words represent any such acceptance. The unacceptable performance will result in significant dirty laundry which should be handled in house and not dissected in the media. Poor performances reflect on the Chairman down through the FD and the players As for the coach, he is already on notice given MFC have stated that they will not review the situation until season's end. He has the blowtorch on him from Rd 1. There are a number of players who must be feeling the heat behind closed doors (Many of them senior) I would have thought the Club in coming to that decision and announcement is cleealy preparing for contingencies where ever possible. So given what has been said over the past 12 months by the Club who do you think is ignoring the issues at MFC?

Just what the club needs a public bake played out in the media? Of course!! How unprofessional of the Club not to resort to pasting groups and individuals in the media!!! Jimmy sent the right message in the appropriate mannner. Something had to be said. And it is appropriate coming from the President and not from the Coach. I leave the pettiness to you Iva. Feel free to quote from the book..... Were bowing after or while you read the article? B)

Well done Iva and rah rah! Like I said it was good media management by MFC.

The acknowledgement of poor performance is rightly done by the Club President. And he said the obvious from his position A media driven contrived setting like a press conference is not the venue to "call a spade a spade FFS". I dont think anyone is defelcting criticism at all. If you going to make statements were out played or poor performance, then the last venue for that should be the Press conference. And do you honestly think the Press would say "OK, you were outplayed and performance was poor lets then move along shall we". The media would make a meal of a coach for that. Its just that criticism should be dealt out privately and not in the hands of the media.

Do you honestly think that because the FD say that the Hawks are a great side, that there is no behind the scenes criticisms and soul searching going on with the players? FWIW I dont what supporters expect to hear from a Press conference. Bailey does what he always does. He plays a dead bat. If he or anyone is going to critical, scathing or damning of any individual or group of players he rigthtly does it behind closed doors and to their faces. Stynes presser is to give the anxious types a naive comfort that the club is actually unhappy about the performances. Of course the FD and Club aren't happy with the performance but they are not going to hand out criticisms through the media and they realise that there is a gulf between our young stars and the best teams of mature hard bodies.

The stats for the whole game were terrible. MFC's kids were monstered by a focussed and thorough top 4 side. Inside 50s 74-34 are embarrassing. Its ordinary when not one of our senior players seemed to be visible when the heat was on.

All good spin and media fodder for the bowing masses. What Jimma says and what Jimma realises is actually happening on the ground are 2 different things. I am sure Jimma does not have to go to the Hun to pass those sentiments along. I think the players ears will be ringing about what is acceptable and what is not from the FD. It was a pathetic performance with or without a lightweight Hun article. Another good example of MFC managing the media.

But its not an attitude issue. And there are few players left from the ND era. Jones and Moloney play with their hearts on their sleeves. However they are not good enough in the midfield. Against class midfielders they get found out too often. We also suffer from having too few senior players and too few strong leaders in the team.

I think we are well placed with the rucks. Our aenior midfield is limited and inconsistent. Our midfield needs to evolve to a maturing talented midfield hopefully lead by Scully and Trengove. This will take some years. The forward is coming in Watts. I hope he is still developing into his body atm.

And they fall away in skill against that calibre. Bartram's our best option atm in the back pocket. We have better options to develop in the midfield.

Who do you man up on the calibre of game breakers like Rioli? While the man up theory is good and implies accountability I am not sure in a man up situation we would match the Hawks in key man on man areas. Its disappointing we got outgunned at crucial clearances and contests for most of the day. Plenty for the FD to work on.

Our experienced players are too few and those that are in that bracket are honest but not world beaters. We need better players in the engine room and its going to take time.

Honestly how would you know? And from the snippets above your prone to conclude in absence of the facts. Unless you are close to the football action and actually understand what the individual coaches are doing then having posters assess assistant coaches has all the accuracy of shooting fish in a lake with a blindfold. Aside from Sylvia where the jury is out the other two are not good enough against the best midfields. See Snoopy's thread on stars and midfields.

We have Jamar atm. We have Spencer, Gawn, Martin and Fitzpatrick waiting in the wings. At the end of this year I would probably rookie another young ruckman. Otherwise, I would not be doing much else for the moment on this one. We have bigger issues elsewhere

Geelong's super draft was 2001. So it was their sixth season which only highlights the point further about experience and game time.

I dont. It was a diaaster both on the field and as a PR exercise for the Hawks. Proved nothing but ill discipline that resulted in players being suspended It was dumb and embarrassing and Essendown slaughtered the Hawks that day. There were a number of reasons why the Hawks rose up the ladder in subsequent years. The line in the sand was the low point. As part of the rejuvenation of the club, Brereton was removed as in an official capacity from the Hawks soon after the debacle. Wonderful player with a wonderful playing record. Just a peanut as a ex player and commentator (especially on tribunal cases and outcomes).

Either MFCSS or self indulgent spin of your own Choko. And you dont think WCE has tried hard to avoid scrutiny???? Surely you jest.

Unfortunately youing players will be inconsistently good and bad. Its a pity the senior players are displaying those tendencies too. Its a poor road map for the younger brigade. To be honest bonkers we are not doing enough outside the 50 metre arcs, more importantly across across the midfield. I would have thought what should have you made was that at half time, Hawthorn will still winning the centre clearances. This got worse after 1/2 time. I am not sure where it was reported if indeed it was but I dont think anyone in the Club would have found that performance up to standard. Its was awful. But unlike yourself too many posters have delved into self serving tailspin frenzy that is as useful and successful as trying to pour water up hill. Why do you think the Club would not be asking some stiff questions internally. In fact Roos in his final years did cop a few beltings. And if we are talking aspirations, I would the Club has aspirations higher than that.