mo64

Giving away our 2nd rounder this year when we don't have a 1st round pick is NOT suitable to us.

Unless Hibberd is prepared to stay at the Bombers on rookie wages, we have them over a barrel. They've renegotiated contracts for the likes of Hurley on the assumption that Hibberd was leaving, and didn't try to match our contract offer to Hibberd. Why would we give them anything other than what suits us, and that is next years 2nd rounder. Take it or leave it.

If Oscar Mac wasn't on our list, was there anything that you saw of him at VFL level that made you think he'd be an AFL quality kpp? I see more AFL attributes in Keilty and McInerney than I do in O Mac and Spencer.

I can't speak for the 800 odd players, but until an A Grade player nominates us as a preferred destination, there is no evidence that your statement is correct. In fact, we're still trying to get our highest profile player to extend his contract. Based on your beliefs, he should have re-signed ages ago. BTW, when we were a basket case under Neeld, we were still able to attract high profile players in Clark and Dawes. How things turned out with them is not relevant to your argument.

There's no evidence of a high profile player nominating us as a preferred destination, hence you can't say that we've improved our attractiveness. Collingwood don't have a 1st round pick yet are gunning for O'Meara. There's always ways of getting the deal done, but you have to land the fish first.

There's no evidence of that. And if a big fish did nominate us, we'd find a way to get the deal done.

The goal he kicked against Geelong last year was pretty good.

Billy Stretch is not only under-appreciated by the supporters, he's under-appreciated by the coaching dept. He's regularly been dropped after playing ok the week before, whilst other young players are given extended time in the seniors despite playing poorly. His ball handling, decision making and disposal is underrated. There's definitely not enough love for Billy on Demonland.

So you are saying that clubs don't make mistakes with trades? Melksham's CV dosesn't warrant the term "AFL grade flanker". That suggests that he's been a reliable player over several years. He may well have started the season ahead of Wagner and Hunt, but unless his form was an improvement on last season, he would have found himself out of the team. And Lumumba's CV far exceeds that of Melksham. I know what Lumumba has to offer. But I was in the "Garland is not in our best 22" camp.

It's funny how players are always rated higher when they're not playing. Melksham had an ordinary year last year, and the knock on him is his disposal. On exposed form, I don't think he warrants a place in our best 22.

I'm not sure that it's best for Goodwin or the club if Roos remains in a part-time capacity, as well as having a full-time media role. It puts Goodwin in a no-win situation. If the team is winning, credit to Goodwin will be diminished, because they still see Roos in the background. If the team is playing poorly, Roos will constantly be asked about it, and I doubt that he'd accept any responsibility.

The bizaare thing was that the video replay was inconclusive. It's like a no-ball call in cricket, once the umpire had called touched, that impacts on how the players upfield react. The most ridiculous video referral I've seen, and that umpire should be taken to task.

Of course we'd be looking for a key forward like him, but unless he's been linked to us, what's the point of starting a new thread?

Couldn't disagree more. My main knock on Oliver from his pre-draft highlights package was that in the same situation, he'd shrug off smaller/lighter opponent at TAC Cup level, before disposing of the ball. I thought he might get caught out at AFL level with bigger bodies and less time. His awareness of the situation (time, space and teammates) was incredibly impressive. He's the antithesis of Toumpas, who'd freeze in the same situation. Vince was equally impressive. Got the ball to Oliver, pointed out Jones as an option for Salem, and then ran on as an option for Jones. That's leadership.

So was Salem's reflex kick to Jones. Both were a thing of beauty.

I did say that he will become a very good AFL player, just wasn't convinced that he had elite talent as a junior. His football smarts in the contest are fantastic and bordering on elite. I thought he overplayed the situation in the highlights package, but is making quick decisions at AFL level which is amazing. To answer your question, yeah I'm convinced.

And ProDee's post wasn't peronal? I note that you and ProDee seem to have a mutual admiration of each others reviews. Oh, and ProDee. Your initial bagging of Oliver was written at 9.15am, yet you blamed it on the reds. We all enjoy a red with our breakfast.

So you have a privileged position on this site of being the only person entitled to their opinion. Mind you, you've covered every base, lol.

Just rewatched some of the early footage, and my assessment stands. I'll try and find some footage that changes my assessment.

My assessment is based on the same footage as you're making your assessment. In congestion he used his physical superiority to fend off players. I question whether he'll get away with it at AFL level. I thought that Parish had far superior football smarts based on the limited footage available. I'm sure Oliver will become a very good AFL player. I just don't believe the hype that was written about him on here after the draft.

We'll agree to disagree. You've summed it up well. But 1st year players with "elite skills" generally find a spot, even in the top teams. I question whether Oliver has elite talent. That's not to say that he won't be a very good AFL player.

Are you serious or just taking the pizz? There was nothing in his highlights reel that screamed "elite skills". That's why I'm asking the track watchers whether they've seen signs of elite talent. Adding muscle doesn't change natural talent. If he's elite like Selwood, Wines and many more, he'd be pushing for selection in round 1, but not necessarily as a primary mid.

During preseason training, you always look at the draftees and hope to get a "yeah, I get what the hype was about" moment or two. I haven't been down there this preseason. Have any of the track watchers seen Oliver do something during the match sims that make you go "yeah, he'll be good"?

As Billy said, the win/loss column at the end of the season is all that matters. The preseason hype of our draftees, based on brief highlights packages, is over the top.

Without an engine, Weideman would definitely start at FF, and Hogan CHF. I doubt that he plays more than 5 games next year, given his injury history. Saints eased McCartin in this year, and I think we'll do the same.