Given the pathetic delivery and decision making of our on-ballers and midfield, leave the backiine (Carroll and Rivers et al) alone. the wonder is we haven't been smashed by 100+ each week.

listened to (some) of game on ABC as I was on the road this pm. One passage: Wheatly bounced out of defence; Miller provided a 'brilliant' lead - 8-10 meters in front of his man - Wheatly ignored him, waited, Miller doubled back,Wheatly then kicked to Miller in a contest!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is from commentary, then discussion after.

LEAVE MILLER ALONE.

This is all about [censored] coaching - call it non-coaching.

I cannot believe the number of people on this list who say "Bails is waiting, watching', 'Bails will do this', Bails will blah blah blah'.

For christ's sake, Bailey has only ever coached a Qld club side (how did it go?). Why the unquestioning faith??

And before someone says the list is not up to it, all the players on the MFC list can play; they would not be in ANY clubs list otherwise. THEY CAN ALL PLAY! Maybe not premiership standard, but not this pathetic dribble. the common factor? Bailey.

Look, I am with you on the backline. The guys have copped a HEAP of flack, and have been under the pump every quarter of everygame. They are not the best backline, but they sure as hell are not the worst.

The Faith may be blind for bails, but we had to see this coming. Bails needs more time, a poor start so far i will admit. You never know what the intentions of this season are. MAybe the point is to try the list so he can move forward. we dont know.

I have been a supporter of miller for a while, but his form is just not up to stratch, and the bagging comes from him being a constant non performer. On a losing team, a beaten player is a target. And miller is usually beaten.

All the players on our list can PLAY...but they cannot WIN, that is the problem.

The Faith may be blind for bails, but we had to see this coming. Bails needs more time, a poor start so far i will admit. You never know what the intentions of this season are. MAybe the point is to try the list so he can move forward. we dont know.

WC, a good thoughtfull response.

This not a poor start, it is CATASTROPHIC.

We don't know? Too right - neither does he.

Given the pathetic delivery and decision making of our on-ballers and midfield, leave the backiine (Carroll and Rivers et al) alone. the wonder is we haven't been smashed by 100+ each week.

listened to (some) of game on ABC as I was on the road this pm. One passage: Wheatly bounced out of defence; Miller provided a 'brilliant' lead - 8-10 meters in front of his man - Wheatly ignored him, waited, Miller doubled back,Wheatly then kicked to Miller in a contest!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is from commentary, then discussion after.

LEAVE MILLER ALONE.

Carroll and Rivers should be left alone i agree.

But Miller??? a member of the leadership group that has been influential in about 3 of his last 40 games? and because he made 1 lead and it didnt get kicked to him he should get more games????

Oh no!! it got kicked to a forward in a contest?!?!??!?! IF HE CANT WIN CONTESTS HES USELESS.

Miller can stay on the list if he turns himself into a presence player, hits people and they stay hit. Runs off the line and lines up the opposition midfield again and again and again.. Teams need enforcers, Millers a big boy and he needs to be hurting opponents, and pray he gets the ball when he makes those rare random good leads and doesnt have to take a contested mark.

Paul Johnson is ahead of Miller as a key forward. <-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Leadership group.

Neitz - injured, ineffective

McDonald - playing on reputation at the moment.

Yze - Magoos.

Miller - Should be Magoos.

Bruce - Holding his spot but hes just a tagger really thesedays.

White - no complaints

Brock - dropped for doing a burnout in his car.... gawd.

red&blue&true's leadership group after the first 6 rounds.

Rivers

Jones

Brock

White

Green

Whelan

Carroll

[censored] post Mono.

You keep saying they (the players) can play, but if they were anywhere near as good as what you're saying they are they wouldn't be getting the [censored] pounded threw them every week.

To put it plainly, the list is not up to AFL standards.

Also, what does Wheatley not kicking it to Miller have to do with the coach? Unless you believe Bailey has told the players not to kick it to him

All the players on our list can PLAY...but they cannot WIN, that is the problem.

No it's not. They look as if they can't play.

This year, (incl preseason) most of the players have looked as if they have no idea what to do. At this level of poor performance, the only answer is COACHING.

OR NONE OF.

[censored] post Mono.

You keep saying they (the players) can play, but if they were anywhere near as good as what you're saying they are they wouldn't be getting the [censored] pounded threw them every week.

To put it plainly, the list is not up to AFL standards.

I didn't say they were great, not the top standard.. But EB, put your undying, unquestioning faith in Bailey, and we are F******.

Also, what does Wheatley not kicking it to Miller have to do with the coach?

Because the players are so gutted, so directionless, they don't know what to do - THEY HAVE LOST IT. AND THIS IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE COACHES.

red&blue&true's leadership group after the first 6 rounds.

Rivers

Jones

Brock

White

Green

Whelan

Carroll

NO ARGUMENT FROM ME.

Of course. The players not knowing how to play football is Dean Bailey's fault.

I think it's about time everyone takes off the rose coloured glasses and accepts that the list is the worst in the AFL as well as giving Bailey a bit of time before judging him one way or another

LEAVE MILLER ALONE.

Miller's only kicked 36 goals or there abouts in his career; for mine he just doesn't present well enough at centre half forward and he does tend to fumble overhead marks which is definitely not what you want from your key forward. Yes, he's aggressive and committed, but he's never really done the job at CHF in my humble opinion - not consistently anyway. Since we're up shite creek in a barbed wire canoe and without a paddle right now, is there any harm in giving Rivers a crack in the same position? He marks well, he's mobile, reads the play well, and he's one of the few blokes right now having a fair dinkum dip. I reckon Rivers would give us a bit more shape and direction if he was at CHF.

LEAVE MILLER ALONE.

Miller's only kicked 36 goals or there abouts in his career; for mine he just doesn't present well enough at centre half forward and he does tend to fumble overhead marks which is definitely not what you want from your key forward. Yes, he's aggressive and committed, but he's never really done the job at CHF in my humble opinion - not consistently anyway. Since we're up shite creek in a barbed wire canoe and without a paddle right now, is there any harm in giving Rivers a crack in the same position? He marks well, he's mobile, reads the play well, and he's one of the few blokes right now having a fair dinkum dip. I reckon Rivers would give us a bit more shape and direction if he was at CHF.

^^^^^ Exchange Rivers for Carroll!

Carroll at FF - christ hed get goals just from starting fights up there!

infact clear the entire forward 50. Except for Carroll and Wona.

Miller...brilliant...*chuckle*

/quote]

FYI White is not in the leadership group.

The current leadership group is:

Macca

Bruce

Miller

Yze

Brock (no longer)

Neitz (injured)

Robbo

I think it's about time everyone takes off the rose coloured glasses and accepts that the list is the worst in the AFL as well as giving Bailey a bit of time before judging him one way or another

at the start of 07 most football media including Mike Sheahan rated us the best victorian side, yep........the start of last year. is our list great? no, is it up to a.f.l standard? yes. Bailey should and will be given time, but the way we are performing compared to our ability and talent are waaaaay out of line right now.

Miller...brilliant...*chuckle*

Yes Miller is being crucified by our delivery.

But at the same time he's just an ordinary footballer. I feel sorry for him. He tries hard and gives all he can. Trouble is there's just not much to offer.

We need better talent.

/quote]

FYI White is not in the leadership group.

The current leadership group is:

Macca

Bruce

Miller

Yze

Brock (no longer)

Neitz (injured)

Robbo

Even worse!

White is in his final years but the club should have the same approach with him they had with Stynes.. he basically developed White in his final years at the club.

at the start of 07 most football media including Mike Sheahan rated us the best victorian side, yep........the start of last year. is our list great? no, is it up to a.f.l standard? yes. Bailey should and will be given time, but the way we are performing compared to our ability and talent are waaaaay out of line right now.

lol Mike Sheahan . . .

I picked Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton and Essendon last year for bottom 4

And then the same for this year.

All 4 have pretty poor lists, only thing is Richmond have Deledio, Foley, Tambling and Carlton have Judd, Murphy, Gibbs etc etc etc.

Melbourne and Essendon have too many guys around 30 who are past it and not enough 20-25 who are very good, AFL level, footballers

When Neale D became coach over 10 yrs ago he said Melbourne MFC needed a spine a - we are left with Carrol, Rivers, Mclean, Miller and who??? - we still need a genuine spine!!

Carroll and Rivers should be left alone i agree.

But Miller??? a member of the leadership group that has been influential in about 3 of his last 40 games? and because he made 1 lead and it didnt get kicked to him he should get more games????

Oh no!! it got kicked to a forward in a contest?!?!??!?! IF HE CANT WIN CONTESTS HES USELESS.

Miller can stay on the list if he turns himself into a presence player, hits people and they stay hit. Runs off the line and lines up the opposition midfield again and again and again.. Teams need enforcers, Millers a big boy and he needs to be hurting opponents, and pray he gets the ball when he makes those rare random good leads and doesnt have to take a contested mark.

Paul Johnson is ahead of Miller as a key forward. <-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Leadership group.

Neitz - injured, ineffective

McDonald - playing on reputation at the moment.

Yze - Magoos.

Miller - Should be Magoos.

Bruce - Holding his spot but hes just a tagger really thesedays.

White - no complaints

Brock - dropped for doing a burnout in his car.... gawd.

red&blue&true's leadership group after the first 6 rounds.

Rivers

Jones

Brock

White

Green

Whelan

Carroll

Carroll? lol

Why not?

lol Mike Sheahan . . .

I picked Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton and Essendon last year for bottom 4

And then the same for this year.

All 4 have pretty poor lists, only thing is Richmond have Deledio, Foley, Tambling and Carlton have Judd, Murphy, Gibbs etc etc etc.

Melbourne and Essendon have too many guys around 30 who are past it and not enough 20-25 who are very good, AFL level, footballers

and you picked us to play finals the previous 3 years? or did we just get lucky 3 years in a row?

Carroll? lol

Dont lol, or ill start my Carroll for Captain thread

I cannot believe the number of people on this list who say "Bails is waiting, watching'

Did anyone else think of bb when they read this?

BB = Bob the Builder???

Bails is bottoming out for a quick rebound. The proof is in the pudding for his mate Clarko and he knows you are only afforded that luxury in the first 2 years as coach hence where we are at now.

At best, with minimal injuries and playing a simple and familiar game plan i think the most we could have hoped for from this list in 2008 is 6-8 wins. This will not facilitate the building of a potential premiership winning side as quickly as a complete bottom out for 2008/2009 will. If Dean Bailey is a career coach he will know he will not have this luxury ever again in his career whether it be at Melbourne or elsewhere. He has made a decision regarding what he believes is the fast track to premiership calibre football and looks as though he is going to stick with it.

I know its painful but we need to stick fat for this year and next and take joy out of seeing the young players hopefully improve.

Also don't be too concerned with the game plan or lack there of at this stage. Game plans evolve over time and it will change as we improve and hopefully unearth a marquee player.

Times are tough but better times will come. We don't know if Bailey can coach based on what we have seen so far but I am also willing to say we don't know he can't coach

No it's not. They look as if they can't play.

This year, (incl preseason) most of the players have looked as if they have no idea what to do. At this level of poor performance, the only answer is COACHING.

OR NONE OF.

What a crock.

Players are lacking confidence. This makes them unsure, tentative and prone to missing targets. Nothing to do with coach or game plan.