Is this forum for blowing smoke up our own arses?

sometimes we light crackers too !!

again I will reiterate that many seem to get far to attached to the personas of the players.

Thats what they are, they are players. They are participants in a team game. Their ONLY value is what they bring to that equation. if ever they stop "ADDING" then logic suggests you look to who can ADD not SUBTRACT.

But when anyone ever suggests that player-god A or player -god B is a bit off..or that serious questions need to be asked of their "CURRENT ' real value , then the perpetrator is labeled grumpy, heretic, moron ..etc etc etc.

I really wish more people would take off their blinkers and se this club and its make up for exactly what it is. we have potential, we have some talent and we have a lot of expensive 1st class passengers. Some of this hasnt necessary been by design, some has been unfortunate happenstance but call it what you may.. its still the same old medocrity.

Hopefully the current regime recognises this and continues its moves to rectify.

I would expect some players to have a real-world wake up talking to at the end of this season.

Whilst a tad harsh I essentially agree with teh essence Rhino's commentary ( sorry..lol )

I and others called into question some of the supposed superstars of our team years ago..and were labled buffoons ( at best ) for doing so. Yet look at results on the board since then for these players and hindsight would suggest some of us werent too far off the mark.

We have some good players , we also have some great players who have seen the last of their better efforts.

Instead of constantly wrapping these guys in shiny shiny glitter, look at them in the cold hard reality of where we are and what they achive. pretend for a moment they were players from another team and critique them as such.

I bet not too many will come off squeaky clean !!

its time to wake up Demons...we are far from as good as we might think we are.

I just hope that he hasn't gone into self preservation mode, like some of his mates, and is therefore playing for himself instead of the side.

Jaded that is my concern with Robbo over the past two years. Together with the changing nature of the game and demanding forwards being more accountable in their defensive skills and more mobile. Robbo lacks the last two skills and is often exploiting those skills for "ME" and not "TEAM".

Also from a culture perspective MFC needs to rid itself of this pestilence. Good teams play for each other. Its one area MFC has not done for a while.

And let's not forget that he has never held a gun to our head during contract negotiations, and has taken pay cuts to stay at the club previously.

Has he? How are you so sure?

Has he? How are you so sure?

It was well documented that he took a paycut in the same year we traded Woey.

It was well documented that he took a paycut in the same year we traded Woey.

That was 2002. He was struggling as a footballer and battling to hold his spot.

In 2003 he had obviously recevied a rocket because he did pull his finger out and won the Bluey in a poor MFC year.

But he has had his contract negotiated since then. I would suggest at the end of 2004 and got three years presumably at a fair clip given he was coming into 2005 as a VC.

That was 2002. He was struggling as a footballer and battling to hold his spot.

In 2003 he had obviously recevied a rocket because he did pull his finger out and won the Bluey in a poor MFC year.

But he has had his contract negotiated since then. I would suggest at the end of 2004 and got three years presumably at a fair clip given he was coming into 2005 as a VC.

Wasn't he the 3rd highest goal scorer for us in 2002?

Wasn't he the 3rd highest goal scorer for us in 2002?

In 2002, Neitz won the Coleman Medal and there was daylight between him and the next best goal kicker as I recall.

Robbo's year was marked by series of highs and lows in performance. His good was good but his poor days were indeed very poor. I can recall he really had no 2nd effort after his first attempt to win the contest mark or otherwise failed.

I am concerned that some aspects of that are creeping back into his game.

Robbo lacks the last two skills and is often exploiting those skills for "ME" and not "TEAM".

Also from a culture perspective MFC needs to rid itself of this pestilence. Good teams play for each other. Its one area MFC has not done for a while.

and from Bealzebub:

"Instead of constantly wrapping these guys in shiny shiny glitter, look at them in the cold hard reality of where we are and what they achive. pretend for a moment they were players from another team and critique them as such."

Absolutely spot on both of you! It is about time this club and its supporters woke up and stopped the adulation of mediocre players.

I know - it is a fault of all football club supporters, but to suggest that any of the players mentioned is untradeable is ludicrous.

WE TRADE TO IMPROVE OUR LIST.

If we don't our only avenue to improve is through wiser drafting. And don't pretend ( again like most myopic fanatics do ) that a fringe player at our club will be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick or that we can trade Wheatley for Judd. Apart from the fools at Richmond every other club has a strong recruitment and knowledge network.

So let's get real....you can only trade something of value in the hope of getting something probably of equal value. However both clubs would be looking to fill a need in their own lists.

And whether the myopics like it or not, our truly tradeable players are Bruce, Johnstone and maybe White. Sheedy had the guts to trade Salmon to Hawthorn years ago and with the draft picks got Lucas, Lloyd and Wellman. The result probably gave them the 2000 Premiership. He traded something special to fulfil the needs of his team. As others have said" have we got the cohunas to do the same?"

And by the way if they can't win a Brownlow in our side this year, then they never will at another club. Remember Woey?

In 2002, Neitz won the Coleman Medal and there was daylight between him and the next best goal kicker as I recall.

Robbo's year was marked by series of highs and lows in performance. His good was good but his poor days were indeed very poor. I can recall he really had no 2nd effort after his first attempt to win the contest mark or otherwise failed.

I am concerned that some aspects of that are creeping back into his game.

such generalised statments and facts..... i can recall , i remember......... hmmmmmmmmm i remember the time he kicked 7 against geelong.... the time he took a hanger in sydney...... the time he kicked the leg break agaisnt essendon round 22 to ice the game.

dont be concerned for once in ur life........ and show some faith.... after all thats why most of us go to the footy the last few weeks

its time to wake up Demons...we are far from as good as we might think we are.

*loud applause*

For sure!!!!

The issue of pay cuts is irrelevant. We are under no salary cap pressure. We also don't pay 100% of the salary cap. It is possible that all players listed in this thread could be on more at other clubs.

When I think of Bruce, Green, Johnstone, Robertson, White and Yze I think of blokes who love the club and I know they would do whatever it takes to win a premiership for the red and blue.

I agree that their form at times has not warranted their status, however I put that down to the fact that the only coach they've known has allowed bad habits to creep into their game. ND has not made these blokes accountable for their performances.

The beauty of the new coach is that everyone is going to start off level. The players listed in this thread will have to earn their spot and in turn their keep. I honestly believe they are capable of taking the MFC forward, however it will depend largely on the coach.