Saw a discussion between @At the break of Gawn and @Dr. Gonzo about forward connection VS defence in the ‘Simon Goodwin Sacked’ thread and thought I would have a look at some stats, year by year, in terms of team rankings per year. (Not trying to prove who’s right and wrong, just thought it would be an interesting set of stats to look at to compare how much better/worse we are).

Scoring/connection forward:

I included inside 50’s, marks inside 50, marks per 50, marks taken on lead, total shots, accuracy, goals inside 50, set shots inside 50 and averaged them all out in terms of ranking per year.

2021: Avg. 5.5th (marks taken on lead we were 5th!!!!!)

2022: Avg. 10.75th

2023: Avg. 10.6th

2024: Avg. 11th

2025: Avg. 11.6th (marks on lead we are 16th!!!!!!)

2025 is our worst scoring/forward connection year. We’ve basically only gotten worse….

—-——————————————————-

Defence:

Includes defensive 1V1, loss %, tackles, tackles in D50, pressure acts, defensive pressure acts, Spoils.

2021: Avg. 4.8th (1st for tackles that year!!!!!)

2022: Avg. 9.8th

2023: Avg. 7.14th

2024: 9.7th.

2025: 11.8th (14th for tackles this year!!!!!)

This year is our worst year in terms of defence metrics. Again, we’ve only gotten worse.

—-—————————————————

So this year has been our worst ranking year since the granny both offensively and defensively by these metrics 😳😳😳😳😳

Can break any stat lines down year by year if people want. Happy Stattin’

Thanks for that @BoBo seems to back up what my eyes tell me. We still hack away at it way too much, still bomb long to contests (or no-one), still go long around the boundary to contests etc

@At the break of Gawn says Chaplin and Goodwin say it's improved so it must be so but watching the game and looking at the stats it's clearly not the case. Our forward setups are a shambles and so is our ball movement. We may have improved the speed of our ball movement but that doesn't tell us anything about it's effectiveness or efficiency.

Me, noting you used a custom algorithm.

9 hours ago, BoBo said:

Saw a discussion between @At the break of Gawn and @Dr. Gonzo about forward connection VS defence in the ‘Simon Goodwin Sacked’ thread and thought I would have a look at some stats, year by year, in terms of team rankings per year. (Not trying to prove who’s right and wrong, just thought it would be an interesting set of stats to look at to compare how much better/worse we are).

Scoring/connection forward:

I included inside 50’s, marks inside 50, marks per 50, marks taken on lead, total shots, accuracy, goals inside 50, set shots inside 50 and averaged them all out in terms of ranking per year.

2021: Avg. 5.5th (marks taken on lead we were 5th!!!!!)

2022: Avg. 10.75th

2023: Avg. 10.6th

2024: Avg. 11th

2025: Avg. 11.6th (marks on lead we are 16th!!!!!!)

2025 is our worst scoring/forward connection year. We’ve basically only gotten worse….

—-——————————————————-

Defence:

Includes defensive 1V1, loss %, tackles, tackles in D50, pressure acts, defensive pressure acts, Spoils.

2021: Avg. 4.8th (1st for tackles that year!!!!!)

2022: Avg. 9.8th

2023: Avg. 7.14th

2024: 9.7th.

2025: 11.8th (14th for tackles this year!!!!!)

This year is our worst year in terms of defence metrics. Again, we’ve only gotten worse.

—-—————————————————

So this year has been our worst ranking year since the granny both offensively and defensively by these metrics 😳😳😳😳😳

Can break any stat lines down year by year if people want. Happy Stattin’

Hey mate, were tackles in the F50 included here? Noting that you included D50 tackles, it would be interesting to see a comparison between the recorded metrics for both, year on year, as a direct comparison.

It would also be interesting to see the stats for the rate of scoring against us from F50 opposition kick-ins and F50 ball-ups as at least to the eye, it seems we've struggled against this ball movement season on season since winning the flag.

More spit balling here, that could be a bit of work to get that stuff, but it would be interesting to see nonetheless.

11 hours ago, BoBo said:

Saw a discussion between @At the break of Gawn and @Dr. Gonzo about forward connection VS defence in the ‘Simon Goodwin Sacked’ thread and thought I would have a look at some stats, year by year, in terms of team rankings per year. (Not trying to prove who’s right and wrong, just thought it would be an interesting set of stats to look at to compare how much better/worse we are).

Scoring/connection forward:

I included inside 50’s, marks inside 50, marks per 50, marks taken on lead, total shots, accuracy, goals inside 50, set shots inside 50 and averaged them all out in terms of ranking per year.

2021: Avg. 5.5th (marks taken on lead we were 5th!!!!!)

2022: Avg. 10.75th

2023: Avg. 10.6th

2024: Avg. 11th

2025: Avg. 11.6th (marks on lead we are 16th!!!!!!)

2025 is our worst scoring/forward connection year. We’ve basically only gotten worse….

—-——————————————————-

Defence:

Includes defensive 1V1, loss %, tackles, tackles in D50, pressure acts, defensive pressure acts, Spoils.

2021: Avg. 4.8th (1st for tackles that year!!!!!)

2022: Avg. 9.8th

2023: Avg. 7.14th

2024: 9.7th.

2025: 11.8th (14th for tackles this year!!!!!)

This year is our worst year in terms of defence metrics. Again, we’ve only gotten worse.

—-—————————————————

So this year has been our worst ranking year since the granny both offensively and defensively by these metrics 😳😳😳😳😳

Can break any stat lines down year by year if people want. Happy Stattin’

Any stat that doesn’t have our defence ranked #1 in 2021 is really flawed. I would add goals per inside 50 and scores per inside 50 to both attacking and defensive stats.

11 hours ago, BoBo said:

Saw a discussion between @At the break of Gawn and @Dr. Gonzo about forward connection VS defence in the ‘Simon Goodwin Sacked’ thread and thought I would have a look at some stats, year by year, in terms of team rankings per year. (Not trying to prove who’s right and wrong, just thought it would be an interesting set of stats to look at to compare how much better/worse we are).

Scoring/connection forward:

I included inside 50’s, marks inside 50, marks per 50, marks taken on lead, total shots, accuracy, goals inside 50, set shots inside 50 and averaged them all out in terms of ranking per year.

2021: Avg. 5.5th (marks taken on lead we were 5th!!!!!)

2022: Avg. 10.75th

2023: Avg. 10.6th

2024: Avg. 11th

2025: Avg. 11.6th (marks on lead we are 16th!!!!!!)

2025 is our worst scoring/forward connection year. We’ve basically only gotten worse….

—-——————————————————-

Defence:

Includes defensive 1V1, loss %, tackles, tackles in D50, pressure acts, defensive pressure acts, Spoils.

2021: Avg. 4.8th (1st for tackles that year!!!!!)

2022: Avg. 9.8th

2023: Avg. 7.14th

2024: 9.7th.

2025: 11.8th (14th for tackles this year!!!!!)

This year is our worst year in terms of defence metrics. Again, we’ve only gotten worse.

—-—————————————————

So this year has been our worst ranking year since the granny both offensively and defensively by these metrics 😳😳😳😳😳

Can break any stat lines down year by year if people want. Happy Stattin’

Nice one.

I have written on other threads about my doubt in the idea of the "modern game". In short I don't believe there's much happening in the game at the moment that hasn't already been done. It's just the current "fad".

I do wonder if our gameplan and team of 2021 would be top four this year. I think it would. Now I understand our players may be older and less effective, however that doesn't invalidate the effectiveness of the gameplan we had. In my opinion we threw out the baby with the bath water.

24 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

Any stat that doesn’t have our defence ranked #1 in 2021 is really flawed. I would add goals per inside 50 and scores per inside 50 to both attacking and defensive stats.

Yeah fair, I didn’t add intercept marks but if I did it would be:

Intercept marks

2021: 1st

2022: 1st

2023: 3rd

2024: 5th

2025: 5th

So 2021 and 2022, this would have boosted our placing up quite a bit defensively to probs 1st overall. But it doesn’t affect the downward trend of us being worse as 2024 and 2025 is the same placing of 5th.

2 hours ago, BLWNBA said:

Me, noting you used a custom algorithm.

You wouldn’t believe how complex it is.

2 hours ago, BLWNBA said:

Hey mate, were tackles in the F50 included here? Noting that you included D50 tackles, it would be interesting to see a comparison between the recorded metrics for both, year on year, as a direct comparison.

It would also be interesting to see the stats for the rate of scoring against us from F50 opposition kick-ins and F50 ball-ups as at least to the eye, it seems we've struggled against this ball movement season on season since winning the flag.

More spit balling here, that could be a bit of work to get that stuff, but it would be interesting to see nonetheless.

Ummmm, I can only look at tackles overall and F50 but I’ll have a look see when I get home and post it. No idea how to do the other stats, haha, would be good

I know it takes a bit of work to put something like this together, but if you pick and choose which stats to include it needs to make logical sense based on what you’re trying to show.

Defence:

Including stats like tackles in D50, defensive pressure acts and spoils will penalise truly good defensive teams that prevent good entries and have high intercept marks. As noted, if we’re not first in 2021 in any defensive rating, the rating calculation is deeply flawed.

I’d find it more useful to look at only 1 stat - expected score against. Judges everything to do with how our game plan prevents scoring but removes the part out of our control (opposition actual score vs expected).

Offence:

The stats used build redundancy. If you’re averaging inside 50s, marks per inside 50 and total marks inside 50 you’re biasing the data towards these data points. Similarly when you include data points like total shots, goals inside 50 and accuracy it builds redundancy. You may as well just include total score.

I can understand why you’re looking at biasing towards marks inside 50 and set shots to judge forward connection, but again I’m not sure it’s a fair representation. There are so many scenarios in footy which demonstrate great forward connection that won’t be shown in these stats (think bang bang bang in the gf).

I’d be really curious if you could run your metrics against each side and compare how the top sides ranked. I’d be confident there wouldn’t be a great correlation between high rating and ladder position.

The eye test confirms to me that our defence has gone down the toilet these last 2 years.

Yes, we've definitely sacrificed some defence in exchange for offence which is understandable.

However our lack of hunger at times is clearly obvious. The failed/half hearted missed tackle by Ed Langdon on a Bulldogs player in the second quarter of round 22 sums up a bit of our 2024 and 2025 seasons IMO. The times where the oppo just waltzes past us because we can't put enough pressure on.

In order to win a premiership you need to have your defence in order. The last 10 premiers have typically been the second or third best defence (on average) in terms of points against with Melbourne in 2021 and Hawthorn in 2015 being the #1 defence.

I'd be worried if I were Brisbane or GWS who are 8th and 9th respectively in points against.