3 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Oe it.
That's a large majority of the list.
That Goodwin has assembled.

Goodwin is not the head recruiter

So this year he has been handed a list of duds who can't (or won't) adopt a new game plan

The players are a lazy lot

Don't let them off the hook by just blaming the coach

They are getting paid $Millions to underperform

Just now, Macca said:

Footy is way different

The players are ruling the roost and it is plain to see

Yes and no, it’s human behaviour, everyone responds differently / needs different motivation. My biggest concern is we have a lot of talent on our list and right now other clubs are eyeing our players off, I believe the longer Goodwin stays on the more damage he is doing in terms of quality players looking at leaving come seasons end. I’ve been a supporting this club my whole life and i’m in my 21st year as a Redleg member but if I’m being honest I want us to get flogged today because I want Goodwin gone. I don’t believe he’s capable (I’m not blaming the assistants even though some also aren’t capable) of turning things around, he’s to blame as he is the head coach. Happy to cop flack for this but I’m being honest, we’ve got too much talent to be playing the way we are and copping the losses we have against ordinary opposition. We’ve all seen this play out before only difference is this time we’ve got a lot more to lose in terms of quality players, which will make it harder for us to bounce back.

6 minutes ago, Pirlo said:

They're all out of form, which means they've no idea what they're doing. Are you honestly advocating for the club to clear out an entire playing list to save the coach?

Of course not

You are jumping to the wrong conclusion

But I'd clear out plenty

3 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

You're describing most of our list there.

Well, at last we agree

But you just want to sack the coach

1 minute ago, Macca said:

Goodwin is not the head recruiter

So this year he has been handed a list of duds who can't (or won't) adopt a new game plan

The players are a lazy lot

Don't let them off the hook by just blaming the coach

They are getting paid $Millions to underperform

Goodwin has said that the players were the drivers of change during the off-season.

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

The players don't want to run hard with a new game plan

They are bludging

They showed footage during the week of players running in numbers to receive the handball only for Oliver and Viney to boot it long down the line, again.

Goodwins answer to this is to drop Fritsch and JVR.

The coach is the bludging.

3 minutes ago, Pirlo said:

This is just nonsensical. Can you explain to me in clear terms what this new game plan is? Because the eye test suggests that it is about chipping it around precisely whilst also never, ever presenting out of forward 50. Meaning a dump kick has to happen, even if nobody makes a basic error in the 10+ kicks out of defence. This is not the same game plan as modern teams are playing where they chain handpasses, move fast and take risks. Your assertion that essentially every player is lazy because they can't play footy like you want them to just doesn't stack up.

We are not enacting the game plan we trained all summer to do

You're not seeing it because the players can't be bothered

So look further than the coach and you'll have your answers

The players are bludging on the job

Just now, Macca said:

Well, at last we agree

But you just want to sack the coach

Its not one thing or another. The club needs major change in several areas. The coach is one of those areas.

2 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

You're describing most of our list there.

100%

And it's just the way Goodwin wants it.
He plays for territory.

How would you be as one of our forwards when they see one of our mids streaming toward you knowing damn well that this could go anywhere.

4 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Yes and no, it’s human behaviour, everyone responds differently / needs different motivation. My biggest concern is we have a lot of talent on our list and right now other clubs are eyeing our players off, I believe the longer Goodwin stays on the more damage he is doing in terms of quality players looking at leaving come seasons end. I’ve been a supporting this club my whole life and i’m in my 21st year as a Redleg member but if I’m being honest I want us to get flogged today because I want Goodwin gone. I don’t believe he’s capable (I’m not blaming the assistants even though some also aren’t capable) of turning things around, he’s to blame as he is the head coach. Happy to cop flack for this but I’m being honest, we’ve got too much talent to be playing the way we are and copping the losses we have against ordinary opposition. We’ve all seen this play out before only difference is this time we’ve got a lot more to lose in terms of quality players, which will make it harder for us to bounce back.

Goodwin didn't learn how to not coach overnight

The players are the problem and it's clear to see

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Of course not

You are jumping to the wrong conclusion

But I'd clear out plenty

They’d be a few coaches in waiting sitting back saying to themselves I could do a lot with this list.

There’d be more coaches sitting back saying thar player could add a lot to team going forward he’s being wasted at Melbourne.

Edited Friday at 22:411 day by Bombay Airconditioning

3 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Goodwin has said that the players were the drivers of change during the off-season.

God help us

The lunatics have taken over the asylum

5 minutes ago, Macca said:

We are not enacting the game plan we trained all summer to do

You're not seeing it because the players can't be bothered

So look further than the coach and you'll have your answers

The players are bludging on the job

7 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

They showed footage during the week of players running in numbers to receive the handball only for Oliver and Viney to boot it long down the line, again.

Goodwins answer to this is to drop Fritsch and JVR.

The coach is the bludging.

Should of dropped Viney and Oliver because they’re not adhering to the gameplan, but a soft coach wouldn’t do that.

Edited Friday at 22:021 day by Bombay Airconditioning

5 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

They showed footage during the week of players running in numbers to receive the handball only for Oliver and Viney to boot it long down the line, again.

Goodwins answer to this is to drop Fritsch and JVR.

The coach is the bludging.

JVR & Fritsch have been heading for the axe since halfway last year

What has saved them is we don't have replacements. In fact, the coach has shown remarkable faith in both of them

I'd trade both of them

1 minute ago, Macca said:

JVR & Fritsch have been heading for the axe since halfway last year

What has saved them is we don't have replacements. In fact, the coach has shown remarkable faith in both of them

I'd trade both of them

What would you do with Oliver, Viney and Sparrow?

9 hours ago, Macca said:

Well, we don't know anything for sure do we? But we can speculate

What is happening on the field right now mirrors what happened at '186' and the Neeld era

And we now know that the players back then were taking us nowhere.

Same story now? It looks that way to me

History repeats. The players know that they'll get off the hook and the pressure will go to Goodwin

Overpaid, underworked & lazy. The new modern type of offense requires a lot of gut running & sprinting to position

Our players simply do not want to work hard and it's the older, experienced players leading the revolt

And we are letting them off the hook by simply blaming Goodwin. In fact, it's dumb analysis, really dumb

Goodwin didn't learn how to not coach overnight. On the contrary, he's trying to deploy a new system that the players are too lazy to adopt

Coach killers

Goodwin's always been a system coach though. His system is past it's used by date and he hasn't been able to pivot to a new style that has brought success.

There may be an element of player disillusionment but I think placing all th blame at the feet of the players is unfair. This is not comparable to the Neeld list where it would be tough to find more than a couple of players who would make another sides 22. We still have a list of hardened AFL standard players who are underperforming. Part of that may be form (for whatever reason) but a large part is the system they are working to which is on Goodwin and his assistants. We can get the ball and move it from D50 to F50 but our forward half work is diabolical. That to me is a coaching issue. We are also getting killed around stoppages when that has always been a strength with the players we have in there. Again that is a coaching issue.

Edited Friday at 22:051 day by Dr. Gonzo

6 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Its not one thing or another. The club needs major change in several areas. The coach is one of those areas.

Ok then, now we're talking

So the coach has copped most of the angst on this thread so far

How about we spend 100 pages on all the other issues?

Just to square things up

Trouble is, we are stuck with a number of the other issues that's why the coach often cops it first

But I'd hold firm with Goodwin and start clearing out the deadwood than can be cleared out

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

We are not enacting the game plan we trained all summer to do

You're not seeing it because the players can't be bothered

So look further than the coach and you'll have your answers

The players are bludging on the job

So explain to me what its meant to look like. We didn't see it in the pre-season games or any of the first 5. What is it?

9 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

They’d be a few coaches in waiting sitting back saying to themselves I could do a lot with this list.

That's what we said before Neeld took over

Then things got worse

Our players are coach killers

1 minute ago, Macca said:

That's what we said before Neeld took over

Then things got worse

Our players are coach killers

There are two players on the list from 2011. They'd played about 3 games between them at that point. The only common denominator is the President.

10 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

No they can’t within reason we are an MCG tenant and therefore entitled to play the majority of our games at the MCG

To think they can make us play the majority of our home games at Docklands is untrue

What does being a tenant actually mean? Even if as you suggest they can't make us play a majority at Docklands (which I'm not sure I believe) what is to stop them having us play a 6/5 split? The AFL controls the fixture so if we can't get crowds that would fill even half of Docklands on a regular basis why would they continue wasting the MCG when it could be used by Carlton and Essendon?

Just now, Pirlo said:

So explain to me what its meant to look like. We didn't see it in the pre-season games or any of the first 5. What is it?

Refer to our training in the summer

Do you need me to navigate you or are you able to do your own research?

In other words, start looking a bit deeper

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Ok then, now we're talking

So the coach has copped most of the angst on this thread so far

How about we spend 100 pages on all the other issues?

Just to square things up

Trouble is, we are stuck with a number of the other issues that's why the coach often cops it first

But I'd hold firm with Goodwin and start clearing out the deadwood than can be cleared out

This thread is literally about the coach.

9 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Should of dropped Viney and Oliver because they’re not adhering to the gameplan, but a soft coach wouldn’t do that.

@Macca i know you’ve got a few conversations on the go but you are not replying to some of the comments that show your argument to be flawed. Reminds me of another poster who is never wrong.

1 minute ago, Pirlo said:

There are two players on the list from 2011. They'd played about 3 games between them at that point. The only common denominator is the President.

You misunderstood

The list is cooked apart from the young blokes coming through

Back in the Neeld era, we overestimated the worth of the list as well

Many were projecting finals in 2012 ... what we got instead was basket-case material

Face it, we need to rebuild the list