just to clarify... we can as a club proactively delist 6?

does this not incluse any who may be asked/coerced/allowed to retire ?

how do trades affect the overall in these scenarios?

how exactly does the rule/s work ?

I happily admit to being not 100% sure...happy to have informed contributions :-)

If things are gonna change there has to be a drastic move. I agree with most.

The blokes I'd say good bye to without a second thought are: Bizzell, Brown, Ferguson, Godfrey, Holland, Pickett, Ward, Wheatley.

I'd seriously consider trading one or two of Bruce, Green, Miller, White and Yze.

Forget old players such as Yze and White. There is no value for other clubs. Unfortunately White hasn't been the same since they introduced the second circle in the middle. Bruce must stay as he is our most versatile player. Every week this guy gets the biggest job for the team be it a midfielder, forward or defence. Green is not a midfielder and should be put back in the forward line. Everyone needs to jump off the Rivers bandwagon. He can't mark!! Carroll is also not the answer. Holland is needed to take on the big forwards.

The Gone List

Wheatley

Ferguson

Pickett

Jamar

Moloney

Forget trading. Draft picks.

The Gone List

Wheatley

Ferguson

Pickett

Jamar

Moloney

What are you saying Rogue?

Deanox I don't think seven is a big number. As long as we have some good prospects coming in. Obviously if we don't trade a couple extras get to keep there spot.

I have contradicted myself in my posts. I said I was happy to get rid of Godfrey and Pickett. I have now back-flipped.

Could have a career in journalism.

gouga, i think delisting 7 is a lot, we wont have 7 picks in the draft. i think delisting 5 or 6 is more likely.

7 delisting's are alot but 6 isn't?

Regardless, if we delist 7 we won't have 7 picks in the draft because at least one rookie player will get promoted at the end of the year. Not much thought gone into that.

What are you saying Rogue?

I don't think Moloney should be delisted - far from it. I also find it odd that Wheatley - 26 and most improved in '05 before injuries in '06 and start of '07 - is on the list while Brown (31), Bizzell, Ward (30) et al aren't featured. Furthermore, I imagine Pickett would have more value than a couple of those I've just mentioned.

Happy with draft picks instead of trades though I also agree that Holland probably has value as backline depth while Yze and White are unlikely to have much trade value.

Could have a career in journalism.

Miller - I reckon he is still playing injured. No inside info here, but he has become reluctant to kick again. Could it be OP? Keep .

When was Miller ever not reluctant to kick. His favourite move has always been the 'mark on the lead then run directly towards full-back looking for the handball'. Infuriating week-in, week-out.

how many picks would we have at the draft? 4 or 5? 1 rookie promotion...and we normally dont waste our time with the preseason draft do we? but i cant see us have 6 picks at the national draft, it depends on who is available for the preseason as to whether we delist the 7th player perhaps.

fwiw does anyone know hom many players we have delisted in each of the past few years?

fwiw does anyone know hom many players we have delisted in each of the past few years?

2006 - Read, Motlop, Smith, and Nicholson departed

2005 - Armstrong, Heffernan, Williams, Hunter and Rigoni departed

We should see 5-6 depart in '07.

I don't think Moloney should be delisted - far from it.

Furthermore, I imagine Pickett would have more value than a couple of those I've just mentioned.

Moloney should not even be speculated about being traded a very valuable player when 100% fit( if he ever gets here)

picket does have more value than the players you named....

Moloney should not even be speculated about being traded a very valuable player when 100% fit( if he ever gets here)

that s the 64 dollar question isnt it...will he ever be 100% fit ?...just asking ..someone has to.

A fit Moloney is amongst our best players. He has played hindered by injury this year, and still done better than nearly everyone else we have. Also, the fact that he is suffering from OP means clubs wont be willing to give anything decent up to get him.

am not suggesting trading Beamer....just asking if he's ever likely to hit the turf at 100% on any consistent basis. If he cant...then the unplatable reality is he's a limited asset... like it or not.

We must be active in trades this year. We need a marquee player such as Pavlich or Reivoldt. I believe that these will be more important than Judd to our side. Imagine either of these 2 with Neita over the next 2 years! We need to cull 5-6 players and trade draft picks for one of the above players. Ferg, Ward, Brown, Bizzel, ?Miller/Jamar to go.

We must be active in trades this year. We need a marquee player such as Pavlich or Reivoldt. I believe that these will be more important than Judd to our side. Imagine either of these 2 with Neita over the next 2 years! We need to cull 5-6 players and trade draft picks for one of the above players. Ferg, Ward, Brown, Bizzel, ?Miller/Jamar to go.

Disagree. We're better off aiming to win a flag when the majority of our best 22 are at their peak. We already have at least half of our best-22 coming from guys that have played less than 100 games, and the majority of those have played less than 50.

We're going to be more successful continuing to build a team that can grow together for the next 10 years by focussing on drafting young talent. The alternative is to trade away picks chasing a star in the hope that he'll combine with a few old hands who aren't (White, McDonald, Yze, Pickett, Neitz) and they'll carry the relatively inexperienced majority of our players to a flag.

In 2 years we're perhaps going to lose the aforementioned plus guys like Bizz, Ward, Brown, and Holland who are neither here nor there. On the other hand we have a plethora of guys aged 22 and under like McLean, Bate, Dunn, Moloney, Sylvia, Frawley, Bell, Petterd, Bartram, Jones, PJ, CJ, and Newton. Rivers, Green, Davey, Carroll and Wheatley also have plenty of footy in them. In two years time they should all be better footballers, and Whelan, Robbo, Bruce, and TJ should still be around.

We need to build around the core group of young players instead of attempting a quick fix - the era of Neitz and Yze is coming to a close and we can't afford to jeapordise the future of the Bate's and McLean's by attempting a long shot at the fairytale ending for some of our old favourites.

We have 2 players that should retire at the end of 2007, Brown and Bizz and then I think we need to delist or trade another 3, I would offer Jamar to the meat market, some team like Richmond or Carlton will pick with up, hopefully for a second round pick and then we have a lot of players on our list that are good VFL players but not AFL, Ward, Wheatley, CJ(he needs more opportunities)Holland, Ferguson. One of Ferguson, Holland or Warnock will go, I think it will be Ferguson and it depends on how Frawley goes over the next few months will determine if Holland stays or goes.

If it was my call Brown, Bizz retire, delist Ferguson and Ward, trade Jamar, promote Neaves gives us 4 picks. Hopefully pick 2, 18, 19,20 which is our first pick, priority pick after round one Richmonds second round pick for Jamar and our second round pick

GM 666 if we keep all the players you propose they'll be no room for three draftees.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I don't think you can just pick a group of 6 or 7 and say goodbye. You have to be able to identify replacements that are going to -

. be able to fill the role of the players that are replaced and

. improve the list

The problem is, with limited lists, you can't afford to bring in 6 or 7 18 year olds, who may not play seniors for 2 years.

As for Miller, 2 years ago he was a potential captain.

I believe it was acknowleged that he played injured most of last season.

The games I saw he was moved back & forward in almost every game.

I thought he was kicking more in early games this year.

Anyway I just think he is a hard at it player (and we aren't overrun with those) & a confidence player who deserves more time.

miller should be used as trade bait...i believe hewill have market value. (22 yr old 194cm CHF). he is not bad either, but doesnt fit into out team well...

as for us needing a marquee player, i strongly disagree we trade for one...to get a pavlich or judd we will have to trade 2 of our best players and draft pick most likely...its just not worth it...it will stunt out overall teams devlopment for 1 player...

i think a clever thing to do would be to go for a very very good player which will be forced out by clubs going for a judd or pavlich...

im looking at Nicoski, Braun, Embly, fletcher, Thornton (fremantle) and other such players...someone great is going to be forced out because judd and pavlich will cost the club they sign for atleast 800,000...

we aren't going to win a premiership purely on the basis that Miller canot kick- he would be in the bottom 4 CHF's in the league. He would be brilliant trade bait, as we could get a another good player for him, as he's still young. Dunn awas a bit stiff to be dropped this week and has showed signs of big things to come..looking forward to the next couple of years. I think green, if we wanted someone as well would be about our best that we could give up. Moloney shouldn't be traded its just due to our injuries and no bench that in some games he had to run his injury out and ultimately probably ruined himself more.

Miller canot kick- he would be in the bottom 4 CHF's in the league. He would be brilliant trade bait, as we could get a another good player for him, as he's still young.

what are you on?

If you think he's bottom 4 CHF, why would simply being young make him a brilliant trade bait? Why would a club release a good player just because Miller is young???

Are you proof reading what you write before posting?

Because he can do other things like lead up and present well and take a good grab- dumb clubs like the Kangaroos and Carlton who have taken experienced players before would be stupid enough- its happened before mate. I'm saying again, for the last time, Miller will not win us a premiership because he cannot kick.

We must be active in trades this year. We need a marquee player such as Pavlich or Reivoldt. I believe that these will be more important than Judd to our side. Imagine either of these 2 with Neita over the next 2 years! We need to cull 5-6 players and trade draft picks for one of the above players. Ferg, Ward, Brown, Bizzel, ?Miller/Jamar to go.

i agree with brown ferg ward...chuck in holland and wheatley- bizzell is excellent for us and his game last week was a sign of what he has to offer..he's been riddle by injury. Ferg has as well but i cant see him fitting into the side. I agree...we need to be very pro-active during this years trade period.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I don't think you can just pick a group of 6 or 7 and say goodbye. You have to be able to identify replacements that are going to -

. be able to fill the role of the players that are replaced and

. improve the list

The problem is, with limited lists, you can't afford to bring in 6 or 7 18 year olds, who may not play seniors for 2 years.

As for Miller, 2 years ago he was a potential captain.

I believe it was acknowleged that he played injured most of last season.

The games I saw he was moved back & forward in almost every game.

I thought he was kicking more in early games this year.

Anyway I just think he is a hard at it player (and we aren't overrun with those) & a confidence player who deserves more time.

Agree GM.

That is why Miller is one of the four players on my list I proposed to keep.

I see your point about replacing the seven players I proposed to get rid off with teenagers. That is not the case.

I said seven players to come in. 4 draftees, 1 PSD (like Valenti), 1 trade (like Judd) and promotion of Neaves. That is only four teenagers not seven.

Obviously if we don't trade 6 are delisted instead of seven etc etc.

That is seven ins but only 4 teenagers.

Agree GM.

That is why Miller is one of the four players on my list I proposed to keep.

I see your point about replacing the seven players I proposed to get rid off with teenagers. That is not the case.

I said seven players to come in. 4 draftees, 1 PSD (like Valenti), 1 trade (like Judd) and promotion of Neaves. That is only four teenagers not seven.

Obviously if we don't trade 6 are delisted instead of seven etc etc.

That is seven ins but only 4 teenagers.

Couldn't disagree with any of that.