I was at the game in Sydney, but my comments below are not linked only to that game, although I think it's a fair analogy for the way we perform, and the way we are seen, as a club.

David Neitz was a reluctant captain way back when. Now he is a leader, and a very good to fantastic one at that. Brock seems to have leadership written all over him. Who else? Maybe Robbo. Scraping the barrel now.

When we got the first 3 goals kicked on us on Saturday night, the most obvious thing I saw was 2 of our senior and most skilful players WALKING back to the centre, heads down. It was obvious we were shot. 5 minutes into the game, our so called leaders, if they are honest with themselves, gave up the thought of winning, or at least gave that appearance to the youngsters. When our captain plays, he's at full forward. Who leads in the middle? Who leads the backline? I'm not suggesting we need 18 leaders, but 2 would be good.

Our coach, after 10 years, has not done enough to pick up or develop leaders, and I think shows a lack of thought leadership himself. We had no forward line against Sydney. Yet, we put Miller on Hall. Yes, he has done well in the past, but for goodness sakes, Millsy was just getting some confidence up forward. It was obvious coaching, poor coaching and predictable coaching. And what do you know? We could muster 1 goal for the first quarter, a lucky one at that.

Part of leadership is setting an example. One of the misnomers about our plight this year is that we have been crippled by injuries. Now, I am the first to say injuries hurt us. But, the blokes that have come into the side are NOT youngsters who are not yet capable of competing. They are mainly the same old faces. Ward, Brown, Wheatley, Bizz, Holland, Fergs, Godders, Jamar, Johnson. Not to bash these blokes, but each has inherent flaws in their games, and which one has improved their flaws in the past few years? Leadership involves personal intraspection and honesty. Some of these blokes need to have a good hard look.

Add to that the fact that Petterd was one of few willing to drop into the hole on the weekend, Pickett is too fat to contribute (5 possessions on the weekend is pathetic) and certain players consistently go missing when the heat is on.

I am really disappointed with where we are at as a club. I hate being negative and rarely am, but seriously, I think we are back to 1997 again in some respects.

Rant over.

5 minutes into the game, our so called leaders, if they are honest with themselves, gave up the thought of winning, or at least gave that appearance to the youngsters. When our captain plays, he's at full forward. Who leads in the middle? Who leads the backline? I'm not suggesting we need 18 leaders, but 2 would be good.

This leadership question is mainly hot air. It's an easy one to latch on to and whine about. All of our leadership group were off the park on Saturday night injured with the exception of Bruce. As usual, Bruce ran his guts out and was one of our best.

Our problems at the moment are (I think in order of importance): 1. skills generally, 2. lack of fit inside midfielders (McLean, Jones, plus Moloney unfit) and players who can run hard (e.g. Green, Bartram, plus Sylvia, Pickett unfit), 3. lack of forward targets (Neitz, Robertson), 4. ruck (not only taps but around the ground contribution from all of White, Jamar and PJ) and 5. lack on one more decent, tall backman.

In regard to skills, with the players that we have injured, we have too many substituting into the team who are below good AFL standard. That's not to question some players endeavour (like Godfrey, Ward), but simply that kicking skills and the ability to hit targets fall below standard as a team.

And harder players on the park like Moloney and Sylvia still have OP problems, exacerbated by diminished substitutions off the bench when they do play by the level of injuries we have received.

We do have leaders in the backline.

Whelan, when fit, is a bloody good leader and sets a brilliant example for the others.

Rivers isn't too bad either. He works so hard, and is such a smart and composed player. I hope he gets a gig in the leadership group next year.

I agree that we have some flaws in our leadership and leadership group. However, Neita and McLean will change that when they come back into the side.

At least now we have a seriously good contender to take over from Neita when he retires. 2 years ago, we were looking down an empty barrel.

I am also diasppointed with the lack of leadership.

Bruce and McDoanld were the two from the leadership group playing and we all pretty much agree they're the least influencial leaders as opposed to Green, McLean and of course Neitz.

I agree Rivers should be considered for the group next year. He has always conducted himself beyond his years.

By the way, Adem Yze is the most senior player in our team at the moment. That pretty much sums up how we're going.

I am also diasppointed with the lack of leadership.

Bruce and McDoanld were the two from the leadership group playing and we all pretty much agree they're the least influencial leaders as opposed to Green, McLean and of course Neitz.

I agree Rivers should be considered for the group next year. He has always conducted himself beyond his years.

By the way, Adem Yze is the most senior player in our team at the moment. That pretty much sums up how we're going.

This topic seems to crop up every year. Maybe ND isn't hard enuf on the boys and is too much a mate to all of them.

We all know the playas and the coach get along very well so maybe that's the problem. They need a coach, not another friend.

We all hope the likes of Mclean, Jones, Bate develop real fast and become leaders but if we have the same structure, will we still be having this argument in 5 years time? Will we be wondering and hoping when the next batch of kids will show the way?

Our problems at the moment are (I think in order of importance): 1. skills generally, 2. lack of fit inside midfielders (McLean, Jones, plus Moloney unfit) and players who can run hard (e.g. Green, Bartram, plus Sylvia, Pickett unfit), 3. lack of forward targets (Neitz, Robertson), 4. ruck (not only taps but around the ground contribution from all of White, Jamar and PJ) and 5. lack on one more decent, tall backman.

Agree Maurie. I think we also lack genuine pace in the midfield. Even our injured midfielders are not quick. This lack of pace when combined with poor skill, sees us continually fail to gain the ball in the contest area.

Agree Maurie. I think we also lack genuine pace in the midfield. Even our injured midfielders are not quick. This lack of pace when combined with poor skill, sees us continually fail to gain the ball in the contest area.

Sydney and Adelaide also lack genuine pace in their midfields.

I'm not talking about our other deficiencies, of which we have many. Specifically talking about leadership and the effect a lack of it has when we go a few goals down, when we get a few goals in front, etc...

The other thing is, we have to be careful not to confuse leadership and talent. Whilst a bloke like Cam Bruce may be talented and also run hard, they are only subsets of leadership.

Sydney and Adelaide also lack genuine pace in their midfields.

I'm not talking about our other deficiencies, of which we have many. Specifically talking about leadership and the effect a lack of it has when we go a few goals down, when we get a few goals in front, etc...

The other thing is, we have to be careful not to confuse leadership and talent. Whilst a bloke like Cam Bruce may be talented and also run hard, they are only subsets of leadership.

Sydney have Maljeski, Kenneally and Barry running off the backline with Buchanan and Schneider. The issue is the pace at which you move the ball which does not always rely on leg speed.

Sydney made us look sloow.

Good point about confusing talent and leadership. An error often done at MFC.

Sydney have Maljeski, Kenneally and Barry running off the backline with Buchanan and Schneider. The issue is the pace at which you move the ball which does not always rely on leg speed.

Sydney made us look sloow.

Good point about confusing talent and leadership. An error often done at MFC.

100% agree with you that pace is an issue, and moreso pace of moving the ball off the half back line. That's why Wheels is such a bad loss, and an in form Bizzell would be a plus. But against Sydney, we were totally shown up in that area, and that's why we needed to have Flash behind the ball. It's why Ward and Brown have been getting games (even if not doing it well). We have too many similar backmen that don't give us drive. Still, that's a fact. Leadership exists within whatever facts are present.

The issue is the pace at which you move the ball which does not always rely on leg speed.

Boy that smacks it fair and truly on the head, which harps back to effective disposals and skills. A kicked ball will travel quicker than you can run !! Its all about relative appropriateness of all disposals....commonly called "Footy Smarts "...we arent too bright at time !! :-(

but thats not leadership....though if leaders were effective in THEIR disposals , it might get catchy !!

100% agree with you that pace is an issue, and moreso pace of moving the ball off the half back line. That's why Wheels is such a bad loss, and an in form Bizzell would be a plus. But against Sydney, we were totally shown up in that area, and that's why we needed to have Flash behind the ball. It's why Ward and Brown have been getting games (even if not doing it well). We have too many similar backmen that don't give us drive. Still, that's a fact. Leadership exists within whatever facts are present.

Choko,

My concern is Bizz is slow and unaccountable for his man and offers us little. When things were ru hard against in 2004/2005, Bizz was one of the first to disappear. We missed nothing with him.

While I love Wheels, I think his star is waning and his game against the Hawks was loose and his tackling crude. Its starting to happen more and more.

This does not vindicate Brown or Ward.

I think it was Old that had Sylvia coming off the half back line and I like that!

This leadership question is mainly hot air. It's an easy one to latch on to and whine about. All of our leadership group were off the park on Saturday night injured with the exception of Bruce. As usual, Bruce ran his guts out and was one of our best.

Our problems at the moment are (I think in order of importance): 1. skills generally, 2. lack of fit inside midfielders (McLean, Jones, plus Moloney unfit) and players who can run hard (e.g. Green, Bartram, plus Sylvia, Pickett unfit), 3. lack of forward targets (Neitz, Robertson), 4. ruck (not only taps but around the ground contribution from all of White, Jamar and PJ) and 5. lack on one more decent, tall backman.

In regard to skills, with the players that we have injured, we have too many substituting into the team who are below good AFL standard. That's not to question some players endeavour (like Godfrey, Ward), but simply that kicking skills and the ability to hit targets fall below standard as a team.

And harder players on the park like Moloney and Sylvia still have OP problems, exacerbated by diminished substitutions off the bench when they do play by the level of injuries we have received.

Your just making up excuses because you don't want to see that the players you look up to are so fragile.

Bruce, Yze, TJ, & yes, even Green slipping backwards again. Now we see the young ones not wanting to stick a tackle, Bate repeatedly this year has just gone near an opponent to pressure him to release or at best has just put a slight bump on. Very poor, really no chance in the future of winning a flag like this, major changes need to happen to smash this inept attitude of softness.

Choko,

My concern is Bizz is slow and unaccountable for his man and offers us little.

and cant keep his feet very often IMO