My query is about rotations.

I understand that it's necessary for coaches to give midfield players a breather during the game but I feel there is a danger in what I call "over rotating" players off the bench. Beamer, for instance, started like a house on fire and must have had about five telling possessions in the opening five minutes of the game. Then, he was rotated off the ground.

IMO we rotated ourselves into a hole allowing St. Kilda to recover after we had the early ascendency at 3.2.20 to 0.2.2. At that point in time we could easily have run over them but we were too busy finding which player to rest next rather than to attack with our best 18 when we had the opposition on the back foot.

Any views?

My query is about rotations...

100% agree.

White has stated that before the game even starts, he and Jamar know when they will rotate.

The problem is, like you mentioned earlier with Moloney, what if one of them is playing great and doesn't even need to be rested?

Good point WJ. it seemed somewhat over the top for so many rotations,

with so many midfielders playing last night, there was a lot of fingerp pointing and the like going on with the huge number of rotations.

Being down to 20 men a quarter of the way through the game didn't help with the rotations. You're just robbed of options.

My query is about rotations.

I understand that it's necessary for coaches to give midfield players a breather during the game but I feel there is a danger in what I call "over rotating" players off the bench. Beamer, for instance, started like a house on fire and must have had about five telling possessions in the opening five minutes of the game. Then, he was rotated off the ground.

IMO we rotated ourselves into a hole allowing St. Kilda to recover after we had the early ascendency at 3.2.20 to 0.2.2. At that point in time we could easily have run over them but we were too busy finding which player to rest next rather than to attack with our best 18 when we had the opposition on the back foot.

Any views?

Yes. It is one dimensional thinking and planning.

I sit near the bench, and I too saw a lot of rotations last night, moreso than usual.

Perhaps because it's Round 1, or because a few of our players were coming back from injury (like Beamer).

Interesting thing I noticed, is that this year, as soon as a player comes off, they are measured for heart rate. Wonder what thats all about.

We are underdone at the moment - much less match practice into our good players than some other sides.

Although I don't love rotations, Sydney does plenty of them, so does Adelaide. Not as sure about WCE. I think with a full bench, the bloke on the bench should usually be able to offer something more than a bloke who is on the ground and has been running hard.

Someone like Nathan Jones cannot run out a game, and neither can Brock at the moment, so what choice but rotations?

Any views?

Yes, actually. Shock horror.

I don't know if I agree with you there WJ. Yes Moloney was carving it up and we were looking good. But the guy hasn't played too much footy. Most have categorised all but one game of his pre-season as "patchy" or "rusty." If he's not too fit, you'd expect Daniher to save him for the last quarter in case we need him to steady the team. The other mode of thinking is that had he stayed on he could have gotten us 5 goals up and snuffed out the Saints immediately. What if that hadn't worked? We'd have a stuffed Moloney and one less spot on a bench full of bandaged players on crutches.

I said I don't know if I agree with you... that doesn't mean I don't agree at all. I kind of have a fantasy that the dees will one day become a team like the Hawks of the 80s or the Lions of a few years ago and REALLY put sides away, time and time again. When we won last year, we'd win by 10 goals at the most. Those teams could win by 80-100 points regularly/ If you do things like rotate the Whites, Johnstones and Moloneys of this world to save them, you'll only go so far. Honestly I'm not sure which side of the fence to sit on there.

Good thread though.

The game in the midfield is becoming more & more like ice-hockey where you put a group on for a set amount of time & they go flat out while they're on. Off they come & their replacements go out & do the same thing until the next rotation. Sydney tonight being a good example. The old days where you could stand & watch the action upfield with your hands on your hips & sucking in air are gone. Perpetual motion now.

I wish Whitey would be used as a resting ruckman in the forward 50, instead of having him on and off the pine every 8 minutes.

Whitey can take a mark, and is a good kick at the sticks. I say run him for an extra 15 mins a game in the forward 50.

Obviously after early in the second quarter when we were down to 20 fit men, we used less rotations but the official figure of 17 for the first quarter was extraordinarily high IMO.

I watched a few other games over the weekend and I don't recall any team's prime movers being rotated off with our regularity and especially not when they were playing well. I understand the need to rotate and the demands given the speed of the game but I'm stunned that blokes have to be taken off the ground while playing really well to be given a rest just minutes into the first game of the season.

The result of all this IMO was that the team never gained any momentum during the game after the first half of the first quarter.

I HATE the White rotation policy. Firstly, he plays his best footy when he gets more ground time. Secondly, he is NO Full Forward. Maybe as a high flying pocket or something. They say they're going to try it every so often and it always fails miserably.

Interesting thing I noticed, is that this year, as soon as a player comes off, they are measured for heart rate. Wonder what thats all about.

I think the reason why they measure the heart rate is to see how their heart is going throughout the progress of play they were on the field and give and indication of how much rest they need, and what can help them recover.

Just my thoughts

In relation to the topic, i think there should be a limited amount of interchange, eg up to a limit of 12 changes per quarter.

i think some of the thereory behind it is like a car. if you drive it until the tank is empty you stuff the fuel pump and have to fix it back in the garage. if you use only some of the fuel and keep it topped up it will be able to keep going for much longer. given the appropraite recovery players can play out the full game. given that we expect them to run flat out on the field they need to come off to recover.

I think the reason why they measure the heart rate is to see how their heart is going throughout the progress of play they were on the field and give and indication of how much rest they need, and what can help them recover.

Just my thoughts

In relation to the topic, i think there should be a limited amount of interchange, eg up to a limit of 12 changes per quarter.

Yeah that's pretty close.

Brad Green explained all about the GPS units and heart monitors earlier in the year.

It goes something like this...

The fitness staff have been monitoring players heart rates after intense exercise and regularly thereafter (every couple of minutes I would guess) to determine how long it takes each player to return to a heart rate (recover) where they exert themselves again.

The GPS units tell the fitness staff how far, how fast and how long the players run.

By putting the two together they can 'manage' a player by knowing if, or that, a player has run to the point where he needs a rest; get him off the ground, and know how long he needs to rest for.

This system of player management relies on players going as hard as they can while they are on the ground.

The anomolies as I see them are....

..that NOT every player can where a GPS unit (AFL rules - not sure how many each team can have each week), so there is a bit of guess work involved.

...players might get 'rotated' during a stop in play before they need a rest.

... and as already mentioned. If a player is giving his opponent a bath, he should stay on!! It must have been a god send for Moloney's opponent to see him jog off the ground after being so damaging early! I bet the St Kilda coaching staff didn't mind seeing it either.

GO DEES - Bring on Poos and Wees