1 minute ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I'm with you soup.

I thought Vandenberg started to move around better,  and uses his body moving opposition out of the way, and often on the ground.   This helps create opportunities and space for teammtes.

So many times when our team tackles, the opponent is left standing upright.   Put them on the ground, and let them spend petrol tickets.

This is such an overplayed argument when talking about vandenBerg's value. Gets caught with the ball, his disposals don't contribute much, goes missing for big chunks, OH but he tackles really hard...

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

He's our best for average score involvements.

Guess who second best is? ANB. The same ANB dropped after 2 goals and 5 score involvements against Carlton.

And Goodwin bemoans our 'connection'. He's as bad as some of our supporters with his bias.

 

Wait Goodwin is now biased against ANB? Despite ANB playing nearly every game in 17 and 18 and then getting 3 different cracks at it last year despite never looking any good.

Career score involvements: Melksham 4.9, ANB 4.8, Hannan 4.7, Fritsch 4.6...Pickett 3.7. If Picket played in 2018 he'd average a stack more, he'd have score or set up goals for fun in that side.

Hunt kicked 3 goals against Carlton and has been quiet since, should we not drop him? 

Hunt deep and Melk as the second tall aren't working out so I'd make changes there, but I'd pick Fritsch, Hannan (if healthy as he appears to be) and Kossie over ANB until there's some indication ANB stops fumbling, attacks the ball with conviction and can use it. A good quarter against Carlton was hardly a strong case, he still spend most of that game looking utterly inept.

14 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Wait Goodwin is now biased against ANB? Despite ANB playing nearly every game in 17 and 18 and then getting 3 different cracks at it last year despite never looking any good.

Career score involvements: Melksham 4.9, ANB 4.8, Hannan 4.7, Fritsch 4.6...Pickett 3.7. If Picket played in 2018 he'd average a stack more, he'd have score or set up goals for fun in that side.

Hunt kicked 3 goals against Carlton and has been quiet since, should we not drop him? 

Hunt deep and Melk as the second tall aren't working out so I'd make changes there, but I'd pick Fritsch, Hannan (if healthy as he appears to be) and Kossie over ANB until there's some indication ANB stops fumbling, attacks the ball with conviction and can use it. A good quarter against Carlton was hardly a strong case, he still spend most of that game looking utterly inept.

Isn't it 2020? Not sure what 17 and 18 have to do with anything. Just like I'm not sure what career averages have to do with 2020 either. Pickett has played 3 games, bit rich talking about 'career average' mate.

And yes, I would absolutely drop Hunt this week.

Sure ANB went missing a bit after quarter time (kicked a goal in the 2nd by the way) but his use going inside 50 in that first half was better than I've seen from any of our players this year. We could do with that right now don't you think?

ANB and Kozzy should play very different roles IMO, so I see no reason why both can't be in the side.

Edited July 6, 20205 yr by Lord Nev
One bit was a bit harsh

7 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

This is such an overplayed argument when talking about vandenBerg's value. Gets caught with the ball, his disposals don't contribute much, goes missing for big chunks, OH but he tackles really hard...

There was a clear change in Vander's game when he moved to the wing and on ball in the 2nd half to replace Ploddlinson. 

He's not a forward, never has been, but if we commit to up tempo crash and bash as a poor mans Richmond like in 2018 then Vanders is a crucial part from the wing. Combine it with the right forwards and more inside mid skills and we might even start to score again.

But yeah, he's not a forward, doesn't get to the right spots at all.

 

Just now, DeeSpencer said:

There was a clear change in Vander's game when he moved to the wing and on ball in the 2nd half to replace Ploddlinson. 

He's not a forward, never has been, but if we commit to up tempo crash and bash as a poor mans Richmond like in 2018 then Vanders is a crucial part from the wing. Combine it with the right forwards and more inside mid skills and we might even start to score again.

But yeah, he's not a forward, doesn't get to the right spots at all.

I mean, I love his effort and all, you can't not love the bloke, but I'm probably extra harsh on him because I see him as the prototype Goodwin player who goes hard but doesn't use it well and it hurts us because he plays in positions and roles where we really need skill, the skill we have running around in scratch matches currently.

2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

He's our best for average score involvements.

Guess who second best is? ANB. The same ANB dropped after 2 goals and 5 score involvements against Carlton.

And Goodwin bemoans our 'connection'. He's as bad as some of our supporters with his bias.

Potentially, although Goodwin was a big fan of ANB in 2018 and when Roos had him yoyoing in and out of the side in 2016, Goodwin backed him the following years.

1 minute ago, A F said:

Potentially, although Goodwin was a big fan of ANB in 2018 and when Roos had him yoyoing in and out of the side in 2016, Goodwin backed him the following years.

It's just the only reason I can think of for dropping him after the Blues game.

 

30 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

This is such an overplayed argument when talking about vandenBerg's value. Gets caught with the ball, his disposals don't contribute much, goes missing for big chunks, OH but he tackles really hard...

He set the tone late in 2018, but he's the worst handballer at AFL level I've ever seen and his kicking is inconsistent. I think he's still got value to the team, but we'll be a much better team if others pass him.

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

That free kick was pathetic and handed them a crucial goal to get a break on us. The umpire even admitted no prior opportunity, but "didn't try hard enough to get rid of it" despite it being held to his body underneath his arms where it was physically impossible to handball it. That umpire should get the sack and a curb stomping for good measure.

Trac is singlehandedly keeping this team afloat. He lead our goal kicking last year, and is the main reason we won vs Carlton a few weeks back. He's been brilliant this year. Hopefully he doesn't waste the good years of his career playing in a bottom four team for years on end. Nothing would be more frustrating as a player than being dragged down by no hopers around you and answering to a dimwit coach. Here's hoping he doesn't leave!

Bit rough there, that gives me flashbacks to American History X.

I'm so happy with how Trac has come on this year. I also get the feeling that he's a Dees lad through and through. Although there's no doubt he'll be in high demand I couldn't see him leaving.

1 minute ago, A F said:

He set the tone late in 2018, but he's the worst handballer at AFL level I've ever seen and his kicking is inconsistent. I think he's still got value to the team, but we'll be a much better team if others pass him.

He definitely brings a physicality that virtually no one else in the team has. He's strong and loves to throw his weight around. One particular highlight from yesterday's game was his tackle on Martin, which I doubt many others on our team could have executed.

However, as you say, his disposal is pretty poor and there isn't a lot to his game at the present time.

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Isn't it 2020? Not sure what 17 and 18 have to do with anything. Just like I'm not sure what career averages have to do with 2020 either. Pickett has played 3 games, bit rich talking about 'career average' mate.

And yes, I would absolutely drop Hunt this week.

Always interesting to see how people justify their existing biases here. Sure ANB went missing a bit after quarter time (kicked a goal in the 2nd by the way) but his use going inside 50 in that first half was better than I've seen from any of our players this year. We could do with that right now don't you think?

ANB and Kozzy should play very different roles IMO, so I see no reason why both can't be in the side.

17-19 is relevant because the coach who had a bias for ANB for 3 years now has a bias against him? Maybe ANB hasn't improved at all and the competition has. You're talking seasons average for 2 games for ANB! And one or two good kicks after years of being a poor kick with no vision or creativity. 

We've just come off a season where the entire list pretty much got a game. We've played 3 kids. We've played a guy in Bennell off a 3 year break and half an intraclub. Nev Jetta - every coaches favourite player I'm sure - has been dropped. There's really not a lot of evidence for this claim of bias.

Goodwin certainly has loyalty to senior players, most coaches do, but we snuck over the line against Carlton and he made 5 changes, I don't think he's doing selection based on some kind of immature pettiness. 

 

Trac is having a stellar year.

Pity he doesn’t have any mates.

36 minutes ago, A F said:

He set the tone late in 2018, but he's the worst handballer at AFL level I've ever seen and his kicking is inconsistent. I think he's still got value to the team, but we'll be a much better team if others pass him.

Yeah, I'm not trying to say he's a great player or he alone is the answer, but I just think as things stand right now he would improve our forward half potency. Would much rather we had better options, but atm I don't see them.

32 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

17-19 is relevant because the coach who had a bias for ANB for 3 years now has a bias against him? Maybe ANB hasn't improved at all and the competition has. You're talking seasons average for 2 games for ANB! And one or two good kicks after years of being a poor kick with no vision or creativity. 

We've just come off a season where the entire list pretty much got a game. We've played 3 kids. We've played a guy in Bennell off a 3 year break and half an intraclub. Nev Jetta - every coaches favourite player I'm sure - has been dropped. There's really not a lot of evidence for this claim of bias.

Goodwin certainly has loyalty to senior players, most coaches do, but we snuck over the line against Carlton and he made 5 changes, I don't think he's doing selection based on some kind of immature pettiness.

If it's not bias then it's stupidity IMO. A coach that talks weekly about forward connection, pressure and vision who then drops a player after displaying all those things in a victory... Geez, doesn't make sense to me mate.

 

4 hours ago, tiers said:

Let Tracca coach Clarrie on how to get to the right spots and pick the right option. If taught well, Clarrie could do the same standing on his head. He is that good also.

 

 

If only Oliver knew how powerful he is and can be and would back himself to gather and clear the contest instead of blind handballs back inside the contest to a stationary player whom is most likely outnumbered

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

I'm probably extra harsh on him because I see him as the prototype Goodwin player who goes hard but doesn't use it well and it hurts us because he plays in positions and roles where we really need skill,

This isn't right.   He's not the Goodwin prototype.

1 minute ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

This isn't right.   He's not the Goodwin prototype.

Ok good chat.

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Ok good chat.

Well, don't you wanna know why i say that.?

Just now, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Well, don't you wanna know why i say that.?

How about just saying it straight up? No one is interested in us going back and forth.

I'm happy to leave it at you think he's not, I think he is tbh.

Just now, Lord Nev said:

How about just saying it straight up? No one is interested in us going back and forth.

I'm happy to leave it at you think he's not, I think he is tbh.

Well I want your permission, to speak to you. for you to have your ears on, instead defences up.

12 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

He's our best for average score involvements.

Guess who second best is? ANB. The same ANB dropped after 2 goals and 5 score involvements against Carlton.

And Goodwin bemoans our 'connection'. He's as bad as some of our supporters with his bias.

 

Be careful of average stats Nev, after Carlton, Jayden Hunt led (or almost led ?) the AFL for average goals at 3.0 per game.

2 hours ago, Radar Detector said:

Be careful of average stats Nev, after Carlton, Jayden Hunt led (or almost led ?) the AFL for average goals at 3.0 per game.

Yep, that's fair, it's more a snapshot of the games so far than an undeniable form predictor.