4 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

Some very good discussion here

Soooo

Out Brayshaw

In Langdon, Amon, Young? (or trade for King)

Am I reading that right?

Some at the edges trades, not to say they're not important, but this seems to address some apparent glaring issues.

I reckon we could get those players without losing Brayshaw as it stands. Definitely seems like there's a decent chance we'll split our pick though, there's at least 3 clubs who could come to that party IMO.

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

Out: Brayshaw, pick 20

In: Langdon, Hill or Cerra

Swap of later picks

Isn't Hill basically off the St Kilda?

3 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

Isn't Hill basically off the St Kilda?

Cant blame a bloke from hoping he joins us!

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

We also have Sparrow, Jones, Petracca & vB as players who can play that role proficiently.

Way to underline my point. Jones is on last legs, Sparrow has played all of 2 games, Vandenberg can barely get through a training session without breaking down. Petracca has potential to play more midfield minutes but can’t seem to improve on his tank five years into his career. 

Brayshaw would leave a huge hole in our midfield. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not the answer.

9 minutes ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Way to underline my point. Jones is on last legs, Sparrow has played all of 2 games, Vandenberg can barely get through a training session without breaking down. Petracca has potential to play more midfield minutes but can’t seem to improve on his tank five years into his career. 

Brayshaw would leave a huge hole in our midfield. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not the answer.

I'm glad you listed all our wing depth in your above post too...

But you're right, doesn't seem like outside players are very important in the AFL now hey?  ?‍♂️

We're ranked 4th in contested possessions. 14th for uncontested possessions.

It's not hard to work out what our weakness is.

10 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I'm glad you listed all our wing depth in your above post too...

But you're right, doesn't seem like outside players are very important in the AFL now hey?  ?‍♂️

We're ranked 4th in contested possessions. 14th for uncontested possessions.

It's not hard to work out what our weakness is.

So improve the weakness. Why does it have to come at the cost of Brayshaw? Doesn’t make sense.

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

So improve the weakness. Why does it have to come at the cost of Brayshaw? Doesn’t make sense.

I'm not saying it HAS to be Brayshaw. To me he just seems the most likely out of Viney, Harmes, Oliver and he to be traded, and one that holds a reasonably high value even after a poor year.

As much as many people try to put forward the scenarios, we won't be able to trade any combination of our depth players to get a high quality outside player back.

Even once we lock in Langdon, we still have the issue of trying to fit 4 players into 3 spots. I'm not sure how we solve that given we didn't see any improvement in the disposal or running work of Viney, Oliver and Gus, and I don't think Harmes to the backline is something we're going to roll with next year.

9 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I'm not saying it HAS to be Brayshaw. To me he just seems the most likely out of Viney, Harmes, Oliver and he to be traded, and one that holds a reasonably high value even after a poor year.

As much as many people try to put forward the scenarios, we won't be able to trade any combination of our depth players to get a high quality outside player back.

Even once we lock in Langdon, we still have the issue of trying to fit 4 players into 3 spots. I'm not sure how we solve that given we didn't see any improvement in the disposal or running work of Viney, Oliver and Gus, and I don't think Harmes to the backline is something we're going to roll with next year.

There’s more than one way to swim a lap.

Trade pick 3 to GWS for picks 12, 14 and a decent player. Along with pick 20 (likely Langdon) there’s more than enough cachet to go a long way to addressing the outside midfield problem. 

Four inside midfielders is not an excessive number. Ideally you want a balance of four inside and four outside in your rotation. 

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

There’s more than one way to swim a lap.

Trade pick 3 to GWS for picks 12, 14 and a decent player. Along with pick 20 (likely Langdon) there’s more than enough cachet to go a long way to addressing the outside midfield problem. 

Four inside midfielders is not an excessive number. Ideally you want a balance of four inside and four outside in your rotation. 

The problem is that none of them are capable as outside players. It's not just the number of them, it's that they're just not versatile. Maybe it's something that can change, but it hasn't even looked close to doing that so far, and playing Gus on the outside this year was a horrible failure. Personally I'd trade Viney before Gus if we had to trade one, but I just can't see it happening and trying to be somewhat realistic.

I'm not sure 18 year olds are the answer to our speed, endurance and skill issues. The latter two especially generally take a time to develop at AFL level. I'm all for splitting the pick this year and GWS seem to be the front runner, though don't discount North or Port who potentially may look to maximise their separate picks.

Not that they're trades I'm keen on, but hypothetically we could also look at:

Picks 3 and 39 for Picks 8, 26 and Higgins (North).

Pick 3 for 10, 27 and Amon (Port).

Judging by the industry commentary around it's not considered a great draft at this stage, especially after the first 2 picks, so need to consider that with our thought process as well. And in saying that, there's also the potential we look to split our picks between drafts, trading pick 3 for a first rounder from this year and next.

Completely agree that our supposed midfield depth is highly overrated and said so only a few days ago.

Viney is the only one I'd ever considering trading at this stage, but last year's final series should remind us just how good Jack can be.

We need to strengthen our midfield with a couple of good outsider runners and users, and hope that we can pick up a gun free agent mid in the next 2-3 years.

Sparrow might be okay, but talking about him as decent midfield depth (at this stage) is plainly ridiculous. 

You need 10 or so good players that can go through the middle. Collingwood's midfield is a perfect example.

Edited September 2, 20196 yr by A F

42 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Picks 3 and 39 for Picks 8, 26 and Higgins (North).

Pick 3 for 10, 27 and Amon (Port).

The first scenario I’d consider, no way the second.

Keep in mind we don’t only have to take 18yo’s with draft picks. We can trade them for players. That’s why I like ...

- Pick 3 to GWS for picks 12, 14 and Patton.

- Pick 21 to Freo for Ed Langdon

- Pick 14 to Freo for Brad Hill

- Pick  12 draft best available 18yo

Out: Picks 3, 20

In: Patton, Langdon, Hill, pick 12

9 hours ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

The first scenario I’d consider, no way the second.

Keep in mind we don’t only have to take 18yo’s with draft picks. We can trade them for players. That’s why I like ...

- Pick 3 to GWS for picks 12, 14 and Patton.

- Pick 21 to Freo for Ed Langdon

- Pick 14 to Freo for Brad Hill

- Pick  12 draft best available 18yo

Out: Picks 3, 20

In: Patton, Langdon, Hill, pick 12

Neither of the scenarios I listed are ones I would want to do, but I'm putting forward some realistic options that aren't just about what I think, if that makes sense?

I like the ambition, but realistically we won't get that much done in the trade period. It's generally one 'big' trade and a few little pick swaps etc. Hill has already ruled out the Dees too.

9 hours ago, A F said:

Sparrow might be okay, but talking about him as decent midfield depth (at this stage) is plainly ridiculous.

Don't think it's "plainly ridiculous" to suggest a player who broke through for a couple of games before injury in his first year can be considered depth.

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Hill has already ruled out the Dees too.

Direct quote?

Clubs, managers, journos, fans throwing out a lot of spin at the moment. 

Remember that Hill is under contract. If we throw pick 12 on the table and other clubs can’t get close to it, watch Peter Bell dig his heels in. 

There’ll be plenty of scope to make moves if we split our first pick with GWS. Hell don’t even be surprised if we chuck a decent player on the table to get things moving.

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Don't think it's "plainly ridiculous" to suggest a player who broke through for a couple of games before injury in his first year can be considered depth.

You didn’t throw his name up as depth but as a bonafide first 22 player on the inside midfield rotation. He’s played TWO games. 

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Direct quote?

Clubs, managers, journos, fans throwing out a lot of spin at the moment. 

Remember that Hill is under contract. If we throw pick 12 on the table and other clubs can’t get close to it, watch Peter Bell dig his heels in. 

There’ll be plenty of scope to make moves if we split our first pick with GWS. Hell don’t even be surprised if we chuck a decent player on the table to get things moving.

 

1 hour ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

You didn’t throw his name up as depth but as a bonafide first 22 player on the inside midfield rotation. He’s played TWO games. 

No, I didn't.

Read it again, and this time read it properly, especially noting the "we also have..."

 

 

12 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Tom Brown is Brad Hill’s spokesman? Who knew ?

14 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, I didn't.

Read it again, and this time read it properly, especially noting the "we also have..."

 

 

2 games.

T-W-O.

17 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, I didn't.

Read it again, and this time read it properly, especially noting the "we also have..."

 

 

You would have to take Sparrow and VB out of that list.

Sparrow hasn't even bedded himself down as a VFL level mid yet and VB can't get on the park...

5 minutes ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

2 games.

T-W-O.

Injured.

I-N-J-U-R-E-D.

1 minute ago, rjay said:

You would have to take Sparrow and VB out of that list.

Sparrow hasn't even bedded himself down as a VFL level mid yet and VB can't get on the park...

Sparrow debuted in his first year, then missed the second half of the year with injury.

 

12 minutes ago, GetJonnoPatton said:

Tom Brown is Brad Hill’s spokesman? Who knew ?

You're welcome to post a media report that says he's chosen Melbourne.

Trying to have a grown up conversation with you Matsuo, would appreciate if you did the same.

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

You're welcome to post a media report that says he's chosen Melbourne.

Trying to have a grown up conversation with you Matsuo, would appreciate if you did the same.

I asked for a direct quote. You quoted Tim Brown. And you’re talking about maturity. Please. 

Who is Matsuo?

9 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Sparrow debuted in his first year, then missed the second half of the year with injury.

 

As a defensive forward, not a mid.

He's not proven at any senior level as a mid so shouldn't be brought into the conversation yet...