Talking Point: An uncompromised fixture

[Demon trucker 1,800]

Monday nights is over kill, if the club did take Monday nights the AFL would not give as any extra money for playing there, if they did one of the club's would jump for it, I think gws or gold coast could do it, because the nrl have Monday nights, so those markets already have a culture of Monday nights.

[dpositive 1,653]

While I grew up with all games on Saturday the reality is the game has spread reach with alternative nights, interstate promotion etc. Monday night would be a television game only and competing against NRL so attractive to broadcasters and advertisers. Rights should be at premium so discounts could be given for those attending as a promotion exercise similar to subsidies paid to interstate clubs in set up.

Thus a bonus could be achieved by the club to benefit existing members, provide remote supporters with increased coverage, grow the supporter base by exposure.

The most important thing is to win these games to receive the maximum benefit.

Go for It Dees

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

What happens if only percentage seperates the teams sitting 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th on the ladder. The teams sitting 5th and 6th would have a tougher finish to the season and may end up only winning 1 more game and as a result the teams 7th and 8th could be playing sides who are not as good and win nearly all their games,

End result in effect you could have a side who was 8th have five very winnable games, winning them all and jump into the top 4 as the result of a favoured fixture.

Option 1: Just play 17 games and obviously reverse the home and away the following season

Option 2: Continue playing 22 H & A games perseason, but the fixture just continues to roll through over the years so it would put an end to the guarantee of Pies, Blues, Bombers, Tigers, Hawks and Cats playing each other twice every season and could end up with seasons where there is only 1 derby. The AFL would never go for this but it ends up over the period of time being the fairest system in a 22 game season, whilst allowing the AFL to be flexible enough with fixturing to maintain ANZAC Day, Easter Monday, Queens Birthday & Dreamtime at the G

Option 3: Contine with the current system.

Option 4 - split the ladder from the year before so 1st plays return games against 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th & 16th (and 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17 / 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18). This won't be "even" but it will be "fair".

My preferred option is a 17 game season alternating home and away each year however knowing the AFL and broadcasters would never go for reduced games the next best options are a rolling draw and then splitting the ladder from the previous year.

Regardless of which option they go with they must institute a policy where games go home, away, home, away so if you play a club home in 2014 you play them away 2015 and home 2016. If you play a team home 2014 you play them away 2015 and then home again if you have a return game in 2016. The current situation where we play Carlton Essendon and now apparently Richmond away every year is ridiculous and a significant disadvantage.

The other issue then is when you are scheduled to play. I have no issue putting the "marquee" games on Friday nights however these should be true marquee games not just the rolling mediocrity of Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and Collingwood every week. Port v North for example would be a good match up. There is also no reason why every in shouldn't get at least 1 Friday game per year.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

Frankly, I supect the reverse might be the case. 4.40pm Sunday is an absolute disaster, too late in the day to enjoy lunch at the ground and too early for dinner. I am single but it must be a nightmare for families. I am happy to give Monday night a trial, it is not as though it clashes with anything else.

Would be a hard sell for families to get the kids along to the game or even stay up late to watch on TV on a school night.

[Macca 16,648]

Option 4 - split the ladder from the year before so 1st plays return games against 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th & 16th (and 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17 / 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18). This won't be "even" but it will be "fair".

My preferred option is a 17 game season alternating home and away each year however knowing the AFL and broadcasters would never go for reduced games the next best options are a rolling draw and then splitting the ladder from the previous year.

Regardless of which option they go with they must institute a policy where games go home, away, home, away so if you play a club home in 2014 you play them away 2015 and home 2016. If you play a team home 2014 you play them away 2015 and then home again if you have a return game in 2016. The current situation where we play Carlton Essendon and now apparently Richmond away every year is ridiculous and a significant disadvantage.

The other issue then is when you are scheduled to play. I have no issue putting the "marquee" games on Friday nights however these should be true marquee games not just the rolling mediocrity of Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and Collingwood every week. Port v North for example would be a good match up. There is also no reason why every in shouldn't get at least 1 Friday game per year.

Good post Gonzo but we might be able to ink in an agreement with the Tigers to swap home games with them annually (the game is earmarked to be played on Anzac eve as well)

Next season Richmond get the home game but we might get the home game in 2016 (and so on and so forth) We've got our foot in the door and by the looks of it the game just needs a decent crowd and then AFL approval to have the game played annually ...

AFL Fixture 2015: Richmond and Melbourne to clash in Anzac Eve showdown

If we could snag home games against the Blues, Dons & Hawks in 2016 that would give us 5 home games against the "big 5"

Gotta help the coffers with a draw like that - especially if the team starts winning games consistently.

[bluey 1,033]

Wouldn't be great Telly Melbourne playing Hawthorn or Swans or most other teams on a Friday night, I wouldn't like to see that, it's all about a competitive game, and the advertising revenue, and the crowd and excitement a decent contest brings.

Do the crime of losing and do the time at the bottom, away from the headlights, until, and if the club ever forms into a competitive unit.

Edited December 29, 2014 by bluey

[gsmith12 491]

Wouldn't be great Telly Melbourne playing Hawthorn or Swans or most other teams on a Friday night, I wouldn't like to see that, it's all about a competitive game, and the advertising revenue, and the crowd and excitement a decent contest brings.

Do the crime of losing and do the time at the bottom, away from the headlights, until, and if the club ever forms into a competitive unit.

Do you see that occurring in the foreseeable future Blue ?

[Carlos Danger 380]

The fixture will always revolve around money and as such will never be uncompromised.

The best thing the club can do is win more games, become more attractive to supporters and sponsors and keep ticking the right boxes.

PJ is well aware of this and from everything I've seen, he is doing his utmost to put us in the very best position possible to achieve that.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Carlos Danger

[bluey 1,033]

Do you see that occurring in the foreseeable future Blue ?

Smithy I am very hopeful that the club has bottomed out, and am expecting a few more wins this upcoming season.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

Good post Gonzo but we might be able to ink in an agreement with the Tigers to swap home games with them annually (the game is earmarked to be played on Anzac eve as well)

Next season Richmond get the home game but we might get the home game in 2016 (and so on and so forth) We've got our foot in the door and by the looks of it the game just needs a decent crowd and then AFL approval to have the game played annually ...

AFL Fixture 2015: Richmond and Melbourne to clash in Anzac Eve showdown

If we could snag home games against the Blues, Dons & Hawks in 2016 that would give us 5 home games against the "big 5"

Gotta help the coffers with a draw like that - especially if the team starts winning games consistently.

Yeah I know that but as they say I'll believe it when I see it. We were meant to have an annual ANZAC game up in Sydney too how did that work out? I'm just too cynical these days, I wouldn't go holding my breath about home games against Carlton Essendon AND Richmond in the same year especially with the Queen's Bday game too.

It just pisses me off when the argument gets thrown back that we rely on other teams to prop up our crowds when you look at how many Richmond drew against Port, Freo and GWS this year (as well as Collingwood who we outdrew them on). We also drew more against the Dogs than Essendon (both Saturday night games) drew similar against the Cats as Carlton (theirs was a Friday night game) and drew only a couple of thousand less against the Dogs than Collingwood (and actually outdrew them when you take our Saturday night game into account).

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

Wouldn't be great Telly Melbourne playing Hawthorn or Swans or most other teams on a Friday night, I wouldn't like to see that, it's all about a competitive game, and the advertising revenue, and the crowd and excitement a decent contest brings.

Do the crime of losing and do the time at the bottom, away from the headlights, until, and if the club ever forms into a competitive unit.

What about Melbourne vs Port or Melbourne vs Essendon or Richmond? They were all decent games this year, doesn't have to be Melbourne vs Hawthorn in prime time.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

The fixture will always revolve around money and as such will never be uncompromised.

The best thing the club can do is win more games, become more attractive to supporters and sponsors and keep ticking the right boxes.

PJ is well aware of this and from everything I've seen, he is doing his utmost to put us in the very best position possible to achieve that.

Wont make a difference. We can win as many games as you like but unless the AFL policies change we'll still be inundated with Carlton, Essendon, Collingwood and now Richmond every Friday night.

[Macca 16,648]

Yeah I know that but as they say I'll believe it when I see it. We were meant to have an annual ANZAC game up in Sydney too how did that work out? I'm just too cynical these days, I wouldn't go holding my breath about home games against Carlton Essendon AND Richmond in the same year especially with the Queen's Bday game too.

It just pisses me off when the argument gets thrown back that we rely on other teams to prop up our crowds when you look at how many Richmond drew against Port, Freo and GWS this year (as well as Collingwood who we outdrew them on). We also drew more against the Dogs than Essendon (both Saturday night games) drew similar against the Cats as Carlton (theirs was a Friday night game) and drew only a couple of thousand less against the Dogs than Collingwood (and actually outdrew them when you take our Saturday night game into account).

It has to happen one day ... just some blue sky thinking on my part. It is still December

Who we play against in our home games probably wouldn't be such an issue if we were having winning seasons ... if that was the case our membership and crowd numbers would increase in far more than an incremental way. We'd hopefully be getting more prime time TV games and the flow on effects would happen as a matter of course (as long as we were being well run as a club)

We're actually well set up to do well financially - we just need to start winning on a far more consistent basis ... I reckon we need another decent off season for that to happen - 2 decent free agents in one hit would help things immeasurably.

Just like the QB clash, we need to get along in our droves to that Anzac eve game against Richmond - we're sure to beat them anyway. They'll get ahead of themselves again and plummet down the ladder - there's nothing surer.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Macca

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

It has to happen one day ... just some blue sky thinking on my part. It is still December

Who we play against in our home games probably wouldn't be such an issue if we were having winning seasons ... if that was the case our membership and crowd numbers would increase in far more than an incremental way. We'd hopefully be getting more prime time TV games and the flow on effects would happen as a matter of course (as long as we were being well run as a club)

We're actually well set up to do well financially - we just need to start winning on a far more consistent basis ... I reckon we need another decent off season for that to happen - 2 decent free agents in one hit would help things immeasurably.

Just like the QB clash, we need to get along in our droves to that Anzac eve game against Richmond - we're sure to beat them anyway. They'll get ahead of themselves again and plummet down the ladder - there's nothing surer.

I posted this on BF yesterday in a thread on equalisation - slightly related to the discussion here but thought the findings on crowd numbers was pretty interesting so worth pointing out anyway. It was in response to someone saying Melbourne doesn't take Queens Bday game seriously...

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/equalisation-policy-2015.1084880/page-23

What does this even mean? Our crowds for this game were steadily increasing and we got over 78k in 2006. Since then we've got 68k in 2010 & 2014, 76k in 2011, 70k in 2007 and over 60k every year except 2013 for obvious reasons. The crowd is split relatively 50/50 for these games and we probably outnumbered the Collingwood supporters in 2005/06.

It's clear once we become even slightly competitive as opposed to the majority of the last 7/8 years we'll get very good crowds again attracting more of the theatre goer types as well.

In fact in 2014 we got 68k to Queens Bday which outdrew the following games;

Richmond v Carlton R2 - 62k

Collingwood v Geelong R3 - 63k

Essendon v Carlton R3 - 62k

Richmond v Collingwood R4 - 62k

Richmond v Hawthorn R6 - 53k

Carlton v Hawthorn R13 - 52k

Collingwood v Carlton R15 - 40k

Essendon v Collingwood R17 - 59k

Richmond v Essendon R20 - 58k

Collingwood v Hawthorn R23 - 49k

Carlton v Essendon R23 - 56k

and is in the same ballpark as these games;

Carlton v Collingwood R7 - 68k

Hawthorn v Collingwood R14 - 70k

Hawthorn v Geelong R22 - 72k

Geelong also seem to have average crowds except the big games against Collingwood and Hawthorn assuming this is due to timibg of games and travel however we drew a better crowd against Geelong than either Richmond or Carlton.

Now of course a couple of these games were played Sunday night but the majority were during other normal times with more than one being Friday night games also. Keep in mind this is during our worst period in history, a period comparable to that of Fitzroy just before they were forced to the wall. We also have maintained the majority of our membership and I have no doubt once we become regularly competitive again (either 2015/16) we will easily get to 40k members and maintain that level into the future.

[Macca 16,648]

I posted this on BF yesterday in a thread on equalisation - slightly related to the discussion here but thought the findings on crowd numbers was pretty interesting so worth pointing out anyway. It was in response to someone saying Melbourne doesn't take Queens Bday game seriously...

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/equalisation-policy-2015.1084880/page-23

Never really been to BF but I'm assuming that you're talking to supporters of all the other clubs ... good luck with that. The way you presented your argument was a good one though Gonzo - you might have educated a portion of them.

In terms of membership and our ability to turn supporters into members, we punch way above our weight. We're a lot more loyal than we're given credit for.

As for attendance at the games, all teams have the same sort of drop off rate amongst their supporters when their team isn't winning games. The QB numbers goes against that trend though. The Blues/Tigers season opener is another that is normally well attended.

I'd like to see our club start the season with a clash against a big drawing club - we've got the Pies locked in for QB and hopefully the Tigers on Anzac eve. Perhaps the Bombers for round 1? (home one year, away the next) If we did that we'd at least start the season off with a win

That wouldn't mean that we couldn't get another clash against both the Tigers & Dons in the 2nd half of the year (that in turn, would ensure we'd get at least 3 home games against 3 big drawing clubs - every season)

We need to have that opportunity to catch up to the more financially viable clubs. We also need to start winning a lot more games in order to have a stronger case.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

Never really been to BF but I'm assuming that you're talking to supporters of all the other clubs ... good luck with that. The way you presented your argument was a good one though Gonzo - you might have educated a portion of them.

In terms of membership and our ability to turn supporters into members, we punch way above our weight. We're a lot more loyal than we're given credit for.

As for attendance at the games, all teams have the same sort of drop off rate amongst their supporters when their team isn't winning games. The QB numbers goes against that trend though. The Blues/Tigers season opener is another that is normally well attended.

I'd like to see our club start the season with a clash against a big drawing club - we've got the Pies locked in for QB and hopefully the Tigers on Anzac eve. Perhaps the Bombers for round 1? (home one year, away the next) If we did that we'd at least start the season off with a win

That wouldn't mean that we couldn't get another clash against both the Tigers & Dons in the 2nd half of the year (that in turn, would ensure we'd get at least 3 home games against 3 big drawing clubs - every season)

We need to have that opportunity to catch up to the more financially viable clubs. We also need to start winning a lot more games in order to have a stronger case.

We used to play round 1 against Richmond, then against Hawthorn every year but that fell by the wayside (and probably just as well in the casebook Hawthorn).

Yeah discussion with other clubs supporters, it's give and take with which way they lean the main guy arguing against equalisation is a Richmond supporter there's also a Carlton supporter but he doesn't really know what he's talking about (his solution is to give the poor clubs priority picks and extra salary cap every year regardless of performance) and West Coast supporter who is all over the place and a couple of North, Dogs and Cats supporters who are on the same page for obvious reasons.

The main thing from that post though is I was surprised how well we drew to Queens Bday this year outdrawing Rich/Coll (Friday night), they Call/Ess x2 (Sunday night & Saturday arvo), Collingwood/Ess (Sunday arvo) Haw /Carl (Friday night) etc etc

Edited January 3, 2015 by Dr. Gonzo

[Macca 16,648]

We used to play round 1 against Richmond, then against Hawthorn every year but that fell by the wayside (and probably just as well in the casebook Hawthorn).

Yeah discussion with other clubs supporters, it's give and take with which way they lean the main guy arguing against equalisation is a Richmond supporter there's also a Carlton supporter but he doesn't really know what he's talking about (his solution is to give the poor clubs priority picks and extra salary cap every year regardless of performance) and West Coast supporter who is all over the place and a couple of North, Dogs and Cats supporters who are on the same page for obvious reasons.

Trying to have a logical discussion with a tiger supporter about footy is often a fruitless task - they've got chips on their shoulders the size of boulders and they often possess a nasty streak that is Collingwood like ... and I come across a lot of them.

All supporters have their traits don't they? Or "perceived" traits. I don't mind most of the jibes that come our way but the bit that annoys me is our supposed lack of loyalty and how our supporters are somehow at fault because of our lack of success on the field (of late) It's just pure rot.

What on earth could we have done as supporters to make the team play better? Cheer louder?

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

Trying to have a logical discussion with a tiger supporter about footy is often a fruitless task - they've got chips on their shoulders the size of boulders and they often possess a nasty streak that is Collingwood like ... and I come across a lot of them.

All supporters have their traits don't they? Or "perceived" traits. I don't mind most of the jibes that come our way but the bit that annoys me is our supposed lack of loyalty and how our supporters are somehow at fault because of our lack of success on the field (of late) It's just pure rot.

What on earth could we have done as supporters to make the team play better? Cheer louder?

Richmond supporters have a massive chip on their shoulder about us in particular I think stemming from THAT game in 2009.

I actually like Richmond they're my second team if there is such a thing. But yeah their supporters can be a bit touched in the head.

A lot (though not all) of the West Australians on BF are a bit "special" too.

[Macca 16,648]

Richmond supporters have a massive chip on their shoulder about us in particular I think stemming from THAT game in 2009.

I actually like Richmond they're my second team if there is such a thing. But yeah their supporters can be a bit touched in the head.

A lot (though not all) of the West Australians on BF are a bit "special" too.

Yep, and whilst none of their fans would happily admit it, they wanted their team to tank that game and indeed, their team did tank ... not well enough though hey? Amazing how 1 goal can change the course of hstory.

Of course, a couple of weeks later in that year we smashed Freo in a game which didn't effect that priority pick but if McMahon had have missed that goal that day I'm tipping the course of events that followed would have been vastly different. The Tigers would have almost certainly got the no.1 pick and they probably would have taken Scully.

We would have probably only had the no.2 pick (without a priority pick) and it's doubtful there would have ever been the tanking investigation. Well, that's in theory anyway.

I goal and a matter of seconds made all the difference.

[monoccular 17,340]

Option 4 - split the ladder from the year before so 1st plays return games against 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th & 16th (and 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17 / 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18). This won't be "even" but it will be "fair".

My preferred option is a 17 game season alternating home and away each year however knowing the AFL and broadcasters would never go for reduced games the next best options are a rolling draw and then splitting the ladder from the previous year.

Regardless of which option they go with they must institute a policy where games go home, away, home, away so if you play a club home in 2014 you play them away 2015 and home 2016. If you play a team home 2014 you play them away 2015 and then home again if you have a return game in 2016. The current situation where we play Carlton Essendon and now apparently Richmond away every year is ridiculous and a significant disadvantage.

The other issue then is when you are scheduled to play. I have no issue putting the "marquee" games on Friday nights however these should be true marquee games not just the rolling mediocrity of Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and Collingwood every week. Port v North for example would be a good match up. There is also no reason why every in shouldn't get at least 1 Friday game per year.

Can anyone please give me an explanation as to why, after deducting the actual expenses of putting on the game, fairness would not dictate a 50/50 split of the gate, or at worst a 60/40 split? Especially now that teams by and large share home grounds NB the G? It does after all take two teams to put on a match. Or the AFL could underwrite the running of the games.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,755]

Can anyone please give me an explanation as to why, after deducting the actual expenses of putting on the game, fairness would not dictate a 50/50 split of the gate, or at worst a 60/40 split? Especially now that teams by and large share home grounds NB the G? It does after all take two teams to put on a match. Or the AFL could underwrite the running of the games.

Pretty sure that was the policy up until the mid-90's wasn't it? Which is strange in retrospect considering most clubs played out of suburban home grounds til that point. Obviously another policy dictated by the "big clubs" but I guess the expansion to national comp would've been a factor also (with interstate sides not wanting to split gates when they sell out grounds with their own supporters). A compromise would be any game that is played at a neutral ground could be gate-shared and any game where a club hosts an interstate teams is kept by the club.