government > industry subsidies

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Robbie I think it is the Bradmill buildings I see driving back from Geelong just before the Westgate. A great industrial structure and icon but I notice the low level buildings have been demolished and the iconic multi-storey part of the Mill is deteriorating with graffiti and broken windows, quite sad if it all goes.it is part of our industrial heritage and some of it should be preserved.

The multi storey Building is the old Boiler Room and the covered part leading up to the top of it is the Coal conveyor, this may be heritage listed. The business/site was sold to Coin DeLutis (SP?) who is/was a Carlton board member.

Eventually the whole site was shut down and they had a shop from in the Footscray Mall. It has been vacant for quite a while now and I guess they may be having planning problems because it looked as is it was going ahead then all of a sudden stopped.

The plant in its heyday had spinning and weaving mills, a Dye Works and a state of the art Denim Dye operation and manufactured top quality Denim fit even for the American market.

They simply had too many staff and in the end couldn't compete with India, Indonesia and even Bangla Desh.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The multi storey Building is the old Boiler Room and the covered part leading up to the top of it is the Coal conveyor, this may be heritage listed. The business/site was sold to Coin DeLutis (SP?) who is/was a Carlton board member.

Eventually the whole site was shut down and they had a shop from in the Footscray Mall. It has been vacant for quite a while now and I guess they may be having planning problems because it looked as is it was going ahead then all of a sudden stopped.

The plant in its heyday had spinning and weaving mills, a Dye Works and a state of the art Denim Dye operation and manufactured top quality Denim fit even for the American market.

They simply had too many staff and in the end couldn't compete with India, Indonesia and even Bangla Desh.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/bangladesh-factory-building-collapse-community

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/02/06/unionizing_bangladesh_garment_factory_workers_face_intimidation_violence_report.html

30 years ago > http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/3/newsid_2698000/2698709.stm

this is where your corporations are doing business; & sending our jobs, & values.

[Earl Hood 6,101]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/bangladesh-factory-building-collapse-community

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/02/06/unionizing_bangladesh_garment_factory_workers_face_intimidation_violence_report.html

30 years ago > http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/3/newsid_2698000/2698709.stm

this is where your corporations are doing business; & sending our jobs, & values.

Ummm DL not sure where you are coming from on this one. I am usually at loggerheads with Robbie on political issues but I don't think he has ever been an advocate for the tragedies that go on in Bangledesh, India etc.

I believe your image is from Bophal and the disgraceful behaviour of Union Carbide who just walked away from the disaster that killed thousands and continues to kill thousands every year. UC just rebadged themselves as Dow Chemicals, I believe and moved on. Not sure what this has to do with the textile industry?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Ummm DL not sure where you are coming from on this one. I am usually at loggerheads with Robbie on political issues but I don't think he has ever been an advocate for the tragedies that go on in Bangledesh, India etc.

I believe your image is from Bophal and the disgraceful behaviour of Union Carbide who just walked away from the disaster that killed thousands and continues to kill thousands every year. UC just rebadged themselves as Dow Chemicals, I believe and moved on. Not sure what this has to do with the textile industry?

Most of the responses I get on here have nothing to do with what i've posted they are more about how people perceive me to be.

I love how the ones who are most strident with their views, accuse me of being pig headed and incapable of admitting I'm wrong. Pot kettle black.

It's always good for a laugh.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

Ummm DL not sure where you are coming from on this one. I am usually at loggerheads with Robbie on political issues but I don't think he has ever been an advocate for the tragedies that go on in Bangledesh, India etc.

I believe your image is from Bophal and the disgraceful behaviour of Union Carbide who just walked away from the disaster that killed thousands and continues to kill thousands every year. UC just rebadged themselves as Dow Chemicals, I believe and moved on. Not sure what this has to do with the textile industry?

I found this picture which supports your belief its was about UC

[dee-luded 2,959]

Ummm DL not sure where you are coming from on this one. I am usually at loggerheads with Robbie on political issues but I don't think he has ever been an advocate for the tragedies that go on in Bangledesh, India etc.

I believe your image is from Bophal and the disgraceful behaviour of Union Carbide who just walked away from the disaster that killed thousands and continues to kill thousands every year. UC just rebadged themselves as Dow Chemicals, I believe and moved on. Not sure what this has to do with the textile industry?

this is about globalisation of corporates who go offshore for bigger margins, then expect us to keep patronising their products, after they've sold us out for their new exploitation of cheap wages & overheads, such as safety & work conditions.

so this is to illustrate the imagery of that style of exploitation to all of us, who may think about supporting the companies who are offshoring at our expence, & that of innocent & naive uneducated workers in 3rd world countries.

all for the mighty stockmarket.

its all about a philosophy & ideology of public companies who lead the outsourcing, & then the demise of homegrown family businesses who fold under the weight of this exploitation.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

this is about globalisation of corporates who go offshore for bigger margins, then expect us to keep patronising their products, after they've sold us out for their new exploitation of cheap wages & overheads, such as safety & work conditions.

so this is to illustrate the imagery of that style of exploitation to all of us, who may think about supporting the companies who are offshoring at our expence, & that of innocent & naive uneducated workers in 3rd world countries.

all for the mighty stockmarket.

its all about a philosophy & ideology of public companies who lead the outsourcing, & then the demise of homegrown family businesses who fold under the weight of this exploitation.

Its called capitalism DL

In my view its one of the worlds biggest con jobs.

As it actually means the rich can do what they like and the rest of us have to do as we are told!

[daisycutter 29,740]

whooops! Damn, there goes the rest of the car industry.........button got his wish after all

and all because [put name here] wouldn't buy australian made

[Dee Fan 3,247]

whooops! Damn, there goes the rest of the car industry.........button got his wish after all

and all because [put name here] wouldn't buy australian made

We should pay them all back and refuse to buy any cars in future.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Its called capitalism DL

In my view its one of the worlds biggest con jobs.

As it actually means the rich can do what they like and the rest of us have to do as we are told!

No. its not capitalism that's the problem. Capitalism was fine up til the early 70's.

IMO its the easy credit that's caused too much speculation in houses; & its the StockMarket that's gone haywire with the 'Bull & Bear' mentality.

Greed

is the difference between now, & the late 60's... the world has slowly become more 'Self' oriented, & as such, Greed has taken off. outsourcing without a flinch or a 2nd thought for you countrymen. your neighbors, & yes, families fighting one another over the inheritance.

& governments falling over one another to go offshore & try too hard for exports.

we ship Iron to china, & then back as cars. & pay more into the bargain.

we cannot compete with their wages & poor conditions, as they are, without tariffs, & an even $Dollar.

I say let toyota go, & keep Holden, our car; & buy Australian.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

No. its not capitalism that's the problem. Capitalism was fine up til the early 70's.

IMO its the easy credit that's caused too much speculation in houses; & its the StockMarket that's gone haywire with the 'Bull & Bear' mentality.

Greed

is the difference between now, & the late 60's... the world has slowly become more 'Self' oriented, & as such, Greed has taken off. outsourcing without a flinch or a 2nd thought for you countrymen. your neighbors, & yes, families fighting one another over the inheritance.

& governments falling over one another to go offshore & try too hard for exports.

we ship Iron to china, & then back as cars. & pay more into the bargain.

we cannot compete with their wages & poor conditions, as they are, without tariffs, & an even $Dollar.

I say let toyota go, & keep Holden, our car; & buy Australian.

cap·i·tal·ism [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm] Show IPA

noun

an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Looks Australian to me

Edited February 10, 2014 by DemonFrog

[dee-luded 2,959]

cap·i·tal·ism [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm] Show IPA

noun

an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to co-operatively or state-owned means of wealth.

is what we see coming, the enth degree of the nuclear family?

is this the result of 'Lack of Team', Village, or Tribe? us, or them?

is this the beginning of the end of big wealth, & have/have-nots? have 'they' killed they're golden goose?

when the West goes into a full unemployment recession, the East won't have any trading partners, & capital will stop moving around the world. The End.

all fall down.

[DemonFrog 1,356]

is what we see coming, the enth degree of the nuclear family?

is this the result of 'Lack of Team', Village, or Tribe? us, or them?

is this the beginning of the end of big wealth, & have/have-nots? have 'they' killed they're golden goose?

when the West goes into a full unemployment recession, the East won't have any trading partners, & capital will stop moving around the world. The End.

all fall down.

You forget in one mans misery is another mans opportunity

Its never the end, just a new beginning.

[dee-luded 2,959]

You forget in one mans misery is another mans opportunity

Its never the end, just a new beginning.

like those who said the Mayans predicted the world to End (2012). They didn't. from what i read it was the end of the old time. before heading toward the New Era.

'mans misery', & opportunity? antichrist? the 10 commandments? Greed? generosity of spirit = godly, or just good?

we have to be in good order inside first, to be able to help others.. Greed doesn't equate to being in good order inside. "keepings off" is learnt @ primary school. bad.

this had its beginnings in credit cards, with the mighty bankcard, etc, way back in the 70's; at the public end.

we are in the process of losing our hardearned lifestyle, because of the mighty 'Greedy' Anti Christ... as has been spoken.

the Big Cities with massive unemployment will be hell to live in, with much crime & violence amongst the population.

the business community starting this rolling stone moving, offshore; now its coming back to bite them. hard

.

[hardtack 10,627]

like those who said the Mayans predicted the world to End (2012). They didn't. from what i read it was the end of the old time. before heading toward the New Era.

.

The way I heard it was that they just couldn't see any point in continuing with the calendar.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The way I heard it was that they just couldn't see any point in continuing with the calendar.

well yeah, as I recall, the old calender ended, before the new calender began.

in Nostradamus terms, they read as after the times of troubles, peace for a millennium. but not before great upheaval, & trouble. all sorts, with the weather, economies etc. & eventually war, before things are sorted.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Australia has the highest rate of budgetary assistance to the automotive industry at $US 1885 per vehicle, with the next closest Sweden at $297 per vehicle. In point of fact, the figure for the US came in at only $166 per vehicle and Germany at $206 per vehicle.

[mauriesy 7,357]

So let me get this right ...

In order to save $1885 on the cost of a new car, or less than $200 per year over the average car's 10-year life, we are happy to close down the operations of three companies, parts industries and forego tens of thousands of jobs. There'll be a large rise in newstart allowance payments and industry adjustment costs, maybe a billion or so. It might be cheaper and less socially disruptive to ask me to pay my per capita $17.75.

Abbott's pre-election policy was to cut $500 million in subsidies to the car industry, but in return, now the car industry is 'dead', he'll forego $1 billion in income per year through the removal of tariffs (so we can become an economy even more highly based on 'consumption'). So he's now a net $500 million in the budget red? Haven't we got a 'budget emergency'? How's he going to fund all his 'infrastructure' (that builds efficiency and productivity)?

Actually, I'm not too worried about losing the car industry specifically, as in reality it employs about 1% of Australia's workforce, which could be made up in a year or so's worth of normal jobs growth. (Except that that jobs growth normally goes to new workers, not ones made redundant. So someone still loses.)

What I'm more concerned about is that the current government's industry policy seems to be so typically rightist: a. bash the unions, b. lower worker's wages and conditions as if they're solely responsible, c. cut all industry assistance through the Productivity Commission and d. resort purely to 'market driven' laissez-faire economics with absolutely no intervention, unless you make chocolate in Tasmania.

Is that really going to work? It seems to be a huge gamble to place so much trust purely in the ideology of the 'market'.

PS. Why is the State Government now likely to help SPC? And why give drought assistance to farmers? ... after all they should know that periodic lack of rainfall is a normal agricultural business condition.

[dee-luded 2,959]

So let me get this right ...

In order to save $1885 on the cost of a new car, or less than $200 per year over the average car's 10-year life, we are happy to close down the operations of three companies, parts industries and forego tens of thousands of jobs. There'll be a large rise in newstart allowance payments and industry adjustment costs, maybe a billion or so. It might be cheaper and less socially disruptive to ask me to pay my per capita $17.75.

Abbott's pre-election policy was to cut $500 million in subsidies to the car industry, but in return, now the car industry is 'dead', he'll forego $1 billion in income per year through the removal of tariffs (so we can become an economy even more highly based on 'consumption'). So he's now a net $500 million in the budget red? Haven't we got a 'budget emergency'? How's he going to fund all his 'infrastructure' (that builds efficiency and productivity)?

Actually, I'm not too worried about losing the car industry specifically, as in reality it employs about 1% of Australia's workforce, which could be made up in a year or so's worth of normal jobs growth. (Except that that jobs growth normally goes to new workers, not ones made redundant. So someone still loses.)

What I'm more concerned about is that the current government's industry policy seems to be so typically rightist: a. bash the unions, b. lower worker's wages and conditions as if they're solely responsible, c. cut all industry assistance through the Productivity Commission and d. resort purely to 'market driven' laissez-faire economics with absolutely no intervention, unless you make chocolate in Tasmania.

Is that really going to work? It seems to be a huge gamble to place so much trust purely in the ideology of the 'market'.

PS. Why is the State Government now likely to help SPC? And why give drought assistance to farmers? ... after all they should know that periodic lack of rainfall is a normal agricultural business condition.

Is that right, was it a pre election promise to stop the Car Industry Subsidies? I didn't listen to what he says because I can't believe him or the Libs on anything.

bloody blue tie policies.

the $200.00 per year saving on a new car, will get eaten up in the future on shipping costs & the levy they charge us to supply our manufacturing-less continent.

we will all be driving beaten up fords

[daisycutter 29,740]

we will all be driving beaten up fords

just like the kiwis d-l

lots of work for real mechanics though to keep them on the road

[Hannibal 5,814]

So let me get this right ...

In order to save $1885 on the cost of a new car, or less than $200 per year over the average car's 10-year life, we are happy to close down the operations of three companies, parts industries and forego tens of thousands of jobs. There'll be a large rise in newstart allowance payments and industry adjustment costs, maybe a billion or so. It might be cheaper and less socially disruptive to ask me to pay my per capita $17.75.

Abbott's pre-election policy was to cut $500 million in subsidies to the car industry, but in return, now the car industry is 'dead', he'll forego $1 billion in income per year through the removal of tariffs (so we can become an economy even more highly based on 'consumption'). So he's now a net $500 million in the budget red? Haven't we got a 'budget emergency'? How's he going to fund all his 'infrastructure' (that builds efficiency and productivity)?

Actually, I'm not too worried about losing the car industry specifically, as in reality it employs about 1% of Australia's workforce, which could be made up in a year or so's worth of normal jobs growth. (Except that that jobs growth normally goes to new workers, not ones made redundant. So someone still loses.)

What I'm more concerned about is that the current government's industry policy seems to be so typically rightist: a. bash the unions, b. lower worker's wages and conditions as if they're solely responsible, c. cut all industry assistance through the Productivity Commission and d. resort purely to 'market driven' laissez-faire economics with absolutely no intervention, unless you make chocolate in Tasmania.

Is that really going to work? It seems to be a huge gamble to place so much trust purely in the ideology of the 'market'.

PS. Why is the State Government now likely to help SPC? And why give drought assistance to farmers? ... after all they should know that periodic lack of rainfall is a normal agricultural business condition.

Toyota were receiving $100 million per year from taxpayers. Taxpayers can't be continually asked to subsidise an industry that has been cruelled by high exchange rates, low local demand, and high production costs.

The world has changed and we're now part of a world-wide supply chain that includes bigger and cheaper competitors. We rank 30th out of 39 car-manufacturing nations. It doesn't make sense to continually throw dollars at an unprofitable industry to protect unsustainable jobs.

[dee-luded 2,959]

just like the kiwis d-l

lots of work for real mechanics though to keep them on the road

hah, the good old days. I might just buy another McYcle. that'd 'B' fun.

[mauriesy 7,357]

It's a government choice to let the car industry go. Not one I necessarily wholly agree with, but it's done and dusted.

But you've conveniently overlooked my last three paragraphs:

• What overall industry policy do you suggest other than the hard-line free market?
• Do you agree with (what looks like) the State Government supporting SPC to stop all the fruit farmers in the Goulburn Valley going broke and the region becoming depressed? It's against your 'free market, anti-subsidy' principles. Obviously the National Party is wielding influence.
• Should we subsidise and support farmers? Is there a conflict of principles here?
• Will totally laissez-faire, 'dry', market-driven policies be Australia's salvation, or it's ruin?

[daisycutter 29,740]

It's a government choice to let the car industry go. Not one I necessarily wholly agree with, but it's done and dusted.

But you've conveniently overlooked my last three paragraphs:

• What overall industry policy do you suggest other than the hard-line free market?
• Do you agree with (what looks like) the State Government supporting SPC to stop all the fruit farmers in the Goulburn Valley going broke and the region becoming depressed? It's against your 'free market, anti-subsidy' principles. Obviously the National Party is wielding influence.
• Should we subsidise and support farmers? Is there a conflict of principles here?
• Will totally laissez-faire, 'dry', market-driven policies be Australia's salvation, or it's ruin?

do you honestly think it was just a government policy maurie?

labor couldn't save ford and holden reneged on their promises to labor

did you not see ford and holden's sales slumping astronomically

once they went that just made it all the harder for toyota in an industry where size matters

[dee-luded 2,959]

Toyota were receiving $100 million per year from taxpayers. Taxpayers can't be continually asked to subsidise an industry that has been cruelled by high exchange rates, low local demand, and high production costs.

The world has changed and we're now part of a world-wide supply chain that includes bigger and cheaper competitors. We rank 30th out of 39 car-manufacturing nations. It doesn't make sense to continually throw dollars at an unprofitable industry to protect unsustainable jobs.

lets put a luxury tax on imported cars over 50,000.00

& do away with business tax concessions between $50,000.00 & $500,000.00 on cars. & on registration & insurance on anything above $50,000.00

stop the tax Rorts.

also on claiming lunches & dinners & school fees & entertainment expenses for shows & theater, etc.

we can't afford these luxuries to be claimed from Our taxes.