Fears grow for homeland attacks

[Guest]

that may be true (although i think the reason for communism in (most of) eastern europe was not one of choice but simply mandated by stalin through force)

communism's threat was not it's socialism but its intent of world communism by subversion

don't forget that christianity had exactly the same origins. it was originally the religion of the weak and oppressed

however, whatever the reasons people turn to extremism (religious or otherwise), that does not remove the risk that extremism can spread beyond its original borders

and that is a reality for any government to deal with

I think subversion in places like the US and Australia was going to be pretty damn hard to achieve as quite frankly, the people here never wanted communism and our public institutions were too strong to be overthrown and destroyed. The bit about Stalin using force that you mentioned was true but the countries behind the iron curtain were one's that had been devastated by war. Public institutions and government were non existent and it was easy for communism to take up the reigns of those institutions. It's why they tried taking over Greece in the '50's. It's why Japan was close to electing a communist party government after WW2 (though the occupying American forces and the CIA would never allow that to happen).

On the second part, yes I agree completely and it's an interesting issue to grapple with. Why do young Islamic men turn to extremism in Western democracies? Perhaps a new mindset is required when looking at this.

[hardtack 10,627]

I said, "Tell me the policies and I'll let you know.", because I need to be reacquainted with his views. A fair request considering the allegation.

You say, "why does that surprise me ?". Pray tell.

You seem all insults, but lacking of any relevant content. George Bush ?? Good God man.

Allegation?? Nice to see that the humour bypass was a success. But I'm sure you know how to use google, so feel free to reacquaint yourself with the One Nation policies at your leisure. And I would have thought you would have considered a comparison with those people to be a compliment rather than an insult.

Oh, and on your question to "leftists" generally, if you look at some of the Christian groups operating in Africa, you will find that the deaths at their hands outweigh those of the Islamist fundamentalists. And the fact that you consider them to be a different beast is neither here nor there... they are self confessed christians who interpret the word of god differently to moderate christians...just as your fundamentalist Islamists interpret the words of the Koran differently to the moderates.

And why do you discount Bush? I believe it was he who declared the war on terrorism, no? And I believe that he did so in the name of his god.

Edited February 2, 2014 by hardtack

[daisycutter 29,740]

Allegation?? Nice to see that the humour bypass was a success. But I'm sure you know how to use google, so feel free to reacquaint yourself with the One Nation policies at your leisure. And I would have thought you would have considered a comparison with those people to be a compliment rather than an insult.

Oh, and on your question to "leftists" generally, if you look at some of the Christian groups operating in Africa, you will find that the deaths at their hands outweigh those of the Islamist fundamentalists. And the fact that you consider them to be a different beast is neither here nor there... they are self confessed christians who interpret the word of god differently to moderate christians...just as your fundamentalist Islamists interpret the words of the Koran differently to the moderates.

And why do you discount Bush? I believe it was he who declared the war on terrorism, no? And I believe that he did so in the name of his god.

to be fair hardtack

the african christians you refer to are more driven by deep rooted tribalism than by christian religiosity

their victims are sometimes christians of a different tribe

[45HG 1,559]

to be fair hardtack

the african christians you refer to are more driven by deep rooted tribalism than by christian religiosity

their victims are sometimes christians of a different tribe

Yet nothing similar can be drawn from the many deaths caused by muslims in the Middle East I assume...

[hardtack 10,627]

to be fair hardtack

the african christians you refer to are more driven by deep rooted tribalism than by christian religiosity

their victims are sometimes christians of a different tribe

You get no argument from me DC, but as 45HG so rightly points out, that can be applied equally to the issues in the Mid East... For example, the Sunnis vs Shi'a issues.

[daisycutter 29,740]

Yet nothing similar can be drawn from the many deaths caused by muslims in the Middle East I assume...

yes, there are similarities of tribal tensions

but the african tribal violence was well in place before conversion to christianity

i'm no expert but middle east violence among muslims is part sectarian (sunni, shia) and part tribal (in the main)

I know that is a simplification but i didn't think it fair to blame african atrocities committed by christians as religiously based

and again i'm not apologist for christian violence

[Hannibal 5,814]

Allegation?? Nice to see that the humour bypass was a success. But I'm sure you know how to use google, so feel free to reacquaint yourself with the One Nation policies at your leisure. And I would have thought you would have considered a comparison with those people to be a compliment rather than an insult.

And why do you discount Bush? I believe it was he who declared the war on terrorism, no? And I believe that he did so in the name of his god.

Because I agreed with Bush. His religion had nothing to do with my support.

See the bit I've bolded ? I knew that was your intention, so why would I waste my time on a smear from you ? I wasn't going to then and nor will I now. If you want my view on an issue ask and you'll get it.

[DEE fence 5,039]

What is with the Left ? You're kind of sick.

Do me a favour, let's talk currently, not when witches were burned at the stake.

You are such a slow moving target, but that's ok, I like angry birds... anyway (these were in the loosest sense of the word - christians)

The World War II persecution of Serbs, also known as Serbian Genocide,^[8][9][10] refers to the widespread persecution of Serbs that included extermination, expulsions and forced religious conversions of large numbers of ethnic Serbs by the Ustaše regime in the Independent State of Croatia, and killings of Serbs by Albanian collaborationists and Axis occupying forces during World War II.

The numbers of Serbs persecuted by the Ustaše were very large, but the exact extent is the subject of much debate and estimates vary widely. Yad Vashemestimates over 500,000 murdered, 250,000 expelled and 200,000 forcibly converted to Catholicism.^[11] The estimate of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is that the Ustaša authorities murdered between 320,000 and 340,000 ethnic Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia during the period of Ustaše rule, out of which between 45,000 and 52,000 were murdered in the Jasenovac concentration camp.^{[12] wikipedia}

Anyway as to the article, Australia has had, since before Federation, a steady stream of youths who have tootled off to war in just about every conflict going or has gone, Australians were fighting in Russia in 1917 during the revolution there and a 100 other arcane fights far from here and which we really didn't have a interest in. These young men did not come back and act as agents against the state, and in many ways are the same type of people who now join humanitarian organisations like RedR. There are also the band of sicko's that join the army/police or whatever other group that will have them so that they can go on their own little power trip. The message of Islam can be manipulated for evil purpose, just the same as any organised religion where the feeble minded look to delegate their own moral responsibility. This article is of little worth, it is media incitement/fearmongering (something that the media does so well, news limited I'm looking at you) and while it remains a possibility that some misguided kid with a minor criminal record and daddy issues might go off and learn jihad, our civil service works bloody hard and pays alot of attention to such men. So yes something MAY happen but it can be safely put at very low risk (that is a professional assessment). Far more harm comes to our society (in terms of injuries and deaths) from alcohol consumption.

I mean really in this day and age of google/wikipedia/bazillion bloody documents on the web, how can you be so lazy as to make a completely factless argument unless you are a raging troll.

Edit: spelling and I just want to say the whole former Yugoslavias... I have friends from all sides, I know crazies from all sides, and do not presume that any one group is 'innocent'. I also know some Victorian policeman who went off to fight in the 90's, something that has now been made illegal to do. and also apart from Jasenovac, could you ease up on the africans and recall a little pow wow called Srebinicia

Edited February 4, 2014 by Ingeniokinetikey

[Hannibal 5,814]

OK, great.

Thanks for the reminder of the very complex Yugoslavian wars. It's changed everything.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/video-footage-emerges-of-boy-4-firing-ak47/story-fnh81ifq-1226818227265

HE looks barely old enough to ride a bike, yet this young boy holds and fires a deadly weapon like he is playing a game.

Egged on by those around him, the four-year-old identified as "Muhammad" fires the gun repeatedly while he is forced backwards by its sheer power.

[hardtack 10,627]

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/video-footage-emerges-of-boy-4-firing-ak47/story-fnh81ifq-1226818227265

HE looks barely old enough to ride a bike, yet this young boy holds and fires a deadly weapon like he is playing a game.

Egged on by those around him, the four-year-old identified as "Muhammad" fires the gun repeatedly while he is forced backwards by its sheer power.

And meanwhile back in the US of A, the good ol' boys demonstrate their true christian values.

[hardtack 10,627]

And meanwhile back in the US of A, the good ol' boys demonstrate their true christian values. But they still just don't get it.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

And meanwhile back in the US of A, the good ol' boys demonstrate their true christian values.

What are you on about, these are hunting rifles, did you ever own one, I did. What's hunting got to do with good ol' bous Christian values.

Do you reckon this kid was learning how to hunt Deer?

It doesn't have to be [censored] for tat, when will you ever learn.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

And meanwhile back in the US of A, the good ol' boys demonstrate their true christian values. But they still just don't get it.

I doubt that when they gave the boy the gun, which was sheer stupidity, it wasn't the intention to shoot his sister or anyone for that matter. What do you think the intention is for Muhammad?

Video of this shocking footage has emerged with experts claim it is evidence that al-Qaeda is recruiting child soldiers for jihad in Syria.

I'd hate to be eating a Deer after it was shot with an AK47.

It astonishes me that you can't see anything wrong with this.

Edited February 5, 2014 by RobbieF

[Hannibal 5,814]

Robbie,

What were you saying about Left wing teachers ?

Here they are speaking for a bunch of primary school kids. They really are a disgrace.

[nutbean 8,838]

Robbie,

What were you saying about Left wing teachers ?

Here they are speaking for a bunch of primary school kids. They really are a disgrace.

Speaking for our children and the current Government so it seems - who would have thought ?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/recognition-of-aborigines-in-constitution-a-priority/story-fn9hm1pm-1226731852442#

[hardtack 10,627]

I doubt that when they gave the boy the gun, which was sheer stupidity, it wasn't the intention to shoot his sister or anyone for that matter. What do you think the intention is for Muhammad?

Video of this shocking footage has emerged with experts claim it is evidence that al-Qaeda is recruiting child soldiers for jihad in Syria.

I'd hate to be eating a Deer after it was shot with an AK47.

It astonishes me that you can't see anything wrong with this.

I see plenty wrong with it of course... however, in the US they constantly go on about their 'god given right' to bear arms yada yada and then refuse to accept responsibility for things when they go wrong. They teach their children to handle weapons from an early age - who cares if these are hunting weapons... they certainly are not only used for that purpose.

I think you will find that more people are killed by gun related incidents in the US yearly than are killed in acts of terrorism occurring within or outside the mid east - what does that tell you about responsible gun ownership? I am against the brain washing of kids full stop... both scenarios are wrong in my opinion.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Speaking for our children and the current Government so it seems - who would have thought ?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/recognition-of-aborigines-in-constitution-a-priority/story-fn9hm1pm-1226731852442#

I couldn't read it all due to being a non-subscriber.

It's one thing to acknowledge the country's history, but to "right the wrongs of the past", "respect customary laws", such as "payback", etc., to offer "totem poles" ?

You're kidding me. Actually, you won't be.

No wonder this country will never move forward. It is far too concerned by what divides us and not what unites us.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Hannibal

[hardtack 10,627]

I couldn't read it all due to being a non-prescriber.

It's one thing to acknowledge the countries history, but to "right the wrongs of the past", "respect customary laws" such as "payback" etc., to offer "totem poles" ?

You're kidding me. Well, no actually you won't be.

No wonder this country will never move forward. It is far too concerned by what divides us, not unites us.

Funny coming from one the most divisive posters on these forums.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Funny coming from one the most divisive posters on these forums.

I'm not here to make friends and suspect I've succeeded beyond my wildest dreams.

Nonetheless, my point stands.

You're losing focus of the issues.

[daisycutter 29,740]

it is a primary school in canberra after all

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Robbie,

What were you saying about Left wing teachers ?

Here they are speaking for a bunch of primary school kids. They really are a disgrace.

Well here's a start why don't they leave the Australia and return to their country of origin. As a gesture of goodwill.

Edited February 5, 2014 by RobbieF

[daisycutter 29,740]

Robbie,

What were you saying about Left wing teachers ?

Here they are speaking for a bunch of primary school kids. They really are a disgrace.

"We the children"..........................................................................................."By the students of Florey Primary"

I was wondering whether Ms McLoughlin could be charged with forgery (or maybe something under the Psychological Practices Act)

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I see plenty wrong with it of course... however, in the US they constantly go on about their 'god given right' to bear arms yada yada and then refuse to accept responsibility for things when they go wrong. They teach their children to handle weapons from an early age - who cares if these are hunting weapons... they certainly are not only used for that purpose.

I think you will find that more people are killed by gun related incidents in the US yearly than are killed in acts of terrorism occurring within or outside the mid east - what does that tell you about responsible gun ownership? I am against the brain washing of kids full stop... both scenarios are wrong in my opinion.

How do they go in Iraq do they have the right to bear "car bombs"?

Do they teach the kids in Afghanistan how to make and handle IED's from an early age?

How many are killed each year in tribal battles in Africa, as many as are murdered in america?

I have no time for guns now and less time for those that use them but to have a child of 4 firing an AK-47 dressed as a jihadist is as low as you can go. As low as strapping a bomb to a young girl and detonating it in a crowded place.

[45HG 1,559]

If there wasn't so much attempted point scoring and arguing for the sake of it, these thread would be pretty interesting to read.