While not directly related, I reckon the mids will enjoy looking forward and seeing Hogan and Clark leading toward them, or knowing if they have to bang it forward those boys (and Howe) are a good chance of marking it...

A more solid midfield will generate benefits at both ends as well.

Theres a lot to this actually. More so than some may afford. knowing Theres one or two targets always going makes your work as a mid more directed. No need to hesitate as often , you're drilled to go there, kick here etc. Start that and the confidence builds dramatically. We havent worried other teams for years in this regard. For as bad as we have been our conversion inside 50 has been pretty good. its been the feed thats lousy. having some fire power from the middle makes it less of a certainty as well that its simply a case of backs on fwds keeping score down. Jonesy and Vince can kick it long. Tyson knows where the sticks are. it could be a very different ball game next season. with fwds like clark and hogan who will lead up, well, its going to be entertaining if nothing else

Melbourne: N Jones, J. Viney, B Vince, D. Tyson and Viv Michie (from what i have seen), Cross will be more of a mentor.

Hi Deeman, wish you'd put these all in one post so I could reply a little more easily but here goes. For a start Viv Michie may very well be a great mid for us and be in the top 5 at our club, but at this stage he has barely played any AFL and I thought it would be disrespectful to a number of our players, including the soon to be added Cross to rate him in the top five. I have no doubt the club would eventually be hoping that Cross will be a mentor to not only Viv but also Trengove, Toumpas and co. and that hopefully they will go past him rapidly, but on last years form and accumlated form accross their careers at least 4 of the five I listed deserve to be rated as such. Tyson I put in as we need him to be top 5 immediately and clearly the club thinks he will be having traded some quality picks for him.

Disagree, we have a better midfield (under Roos we will anyway) then alot of them.

Which midfields do you feel our top five are better than? I hope you are right and I am very excited about next year but I don't see our top five clearly beating any of those I listed. We are clearly better than last year, and to win games we will be hoping our mids can get close to breaking even so we can rely on a strong backline and potent forward line to get us across the line. I don't see our mids as clearly ahead of anyone at this stage, with some improvement from Trengove, Toumpas, McKensie, Evans, M Jones and co and some quality coaching we may have the depth to go past some by the end of next year.

And since when is Mayne a midfielder?

Mayne rotates through the midfield occasionally, although with Ross Lyons setup it can be hard to tell who is playing where. Also I did this off the top of my head and said at the top of my post some would dissagree. Clearly I forgot Hill, but Pearce, Sylvia or a number of others could be there, Freo's mids are clearly better than ours with just their top 4!

Prestia and Jack Martin are better than Hall.

Jack Martin is yet to play a game, he probably will be, but as I said above I am trying to be honest about exposed form, Tyson is my one exception (because if I left him out posters like you would be lecturing me on what a star he was). Prestia is a good midfielder, to be honest you are right he should be there, I just forgot him, sorry.

Edit: Edited my post from above to include Hill and Prestia

Edited October 26, 201312 yr by deejammin'

Last year I rated our midfield as the worst I have ever seen.

Next season I rate it only slightly better remembering the following:

• Cross is an older work horse. I love this type of player but we all need to remember he is three years past his prime
• Vince is a show pony who like Sylvia picks and chooses the games he plays. Yes he has a great highlights package and can hit a target on the [censored] but he is up and down like a yo yo.
• Michie has played what, half a game? Amazingly is already in most peoples best 22
• Tyson has played what, half a season? Has been injured and is used to being smacked by 100 points each game anyway.
• Toump and Viney are still boys and people continually expect way too much from them.
• Pick 9 will be a boy
• I adore and love Nate Jones and yes he would get a game for every other team in the league but would be most teams third, or occasionally second best midfielder.

Our midfield will take three years to fix.

Prove me wrong Roosy, please prove me wrong!!

Far too simplistic.

Vince has averaged over 20 disposals per game every year for the last 5. We only had Jones do it this year. Some of our players would be rapt with his "inconsistent" output.

Michie is rated best 22 by Paul Roos, which is why he turned his back on Freo even though he was a required player. Freo wanted to retain him, so he didn't accept our offer to play at Casey. To a man Freo supporters rate him, which is very unusual when a player leaves a club.

Viney plays most of next year as a 20 year old. With another preseason and support from the likes of Cross, Vince and Tyson his lot will only get easier. You're under selling him and his capacity for 2014. He doesn't play like typical "boys".

Tyson has the makings of an absolute gun. He's fit and with a decent preseason there's no reason he can't make the progress other year 3 players have made, such as Prestia and countless others. Ever seen Pendlebury's stats from his first two years ?

You consider Cross an old man, but Dal Santo plays next year as a 30 year old and he's considered by all and sundry as a "boom recruit". Cross has never had pace to rely on, so he'll hardly miss it. He gets his hands dirty, plays with immense courage and self sacrifice and dishes off to others. Nothing will change and he too averages over 20 disposals per game every year. Now we'll have three instead of one. He'll be one of the fittest at the club next year and show others how to train. Dogs supporters say that he's been instrumental in the improvement to Liberatore and Wallis. Nothing to sneeze at.

Some supporters seem to think that certain players won't make a "difference". It becomes an accumulative effect. Cross takes the heat off Jones, Vince takes the heat off Trengove and Jones ? Michie takes the heat off Viney. A second year Viney take the heat off Jones too. A third year Tyson helps take the heat off everybody. If players improve a side they make a difference. And if enough do it the difference can be huge.

There's no doubt we need these new players to perform to their capability, but if they do we'll get quantum reward. If they don't ... you know the story.

Edited October 26, 201312 yr by Ben-Hur

Last year I rated our midfield as the worst I have ever seen.

Next season I rate it only slightly better remembering the following:

• Cross is an older work horse. I love this type of player but we all need to remember he is three years past his prime
• Vince is a show pony who like Sylvia picks and chooses the games he plays. Yes he has a great highlights package and can hit a target on the [censored] but he is up and down like a yo yo.
• Michie has played what, half a game? Amazingly is already in most peoples best 22
• Tyson has played what, half a season? Has been injured and is used to being smacked by 100 points each game anyway.
• Toump and Viney are still boys and people continually expect way too much from them.
• Pick 9 will be a boy
• I adore and love Nate Jones and yes he would get a game for every other team in the league but would be most teams third, or occasionally second best midfielder.

Our midfield will take three years to fix.

Prove me wrong Roosy, please prove me wrong!!

I expect he will.

• our mids will still be [censored], rejects or guys who couldn't crack the best 22, if u believe otherwise u are effin kiddin yourself

• our mids will still be [censored], rejects or guys who couldn't crack the best 22, if u believe otherwise u are effin kiddin yourself

Sadly it makes them still better the the 2013 players list.

Far too simplistic.

Vince has averaged over 20 disposals per game every year for the last 5. We only had Jones do it this year. Some of our players would be rapt with his "inconsistent" output.

Michie is rated best 22 by Paul Roos, which is why he turned his back on Freo even though he was a required player. Freo wanted to retain him, so he didn't accept our offer to play at Casey. To a man Freo supporters rate him, which is very unusual when a player leaves a club.

Viney plays most of next year as a 20 year old. With another preseason and support from the likes of Cross, Vince and Tyson his lot will only get easier. You're under selling him and his capacity for 2014. He doesn't play like typical "boys".

Tyson has the makings of an absolute gun. He's fit and with a decent preseason there's no reason he can't make the progress other year 3 players have made, such as Prestia and countless others. Ever seen Pendlebury's stats from his first two years ?

You consider Cross an old man, but Dal Santo plays next year as a 30 year old and he's considered by all and sundry as a "boom recruit". Cross has never had pace to rely on, so he'll hardly miss it. He gets his hands dirty, plays with immense courage and self sacrifice and dishes off to others. Nothing will change and he too averages over 20 disposals per game every year. Now we'll have three instead of one. He'll be one of the fittest at the club next year and show others how to train. Dogs supporters say that he's been instrumental in the improvement to Liberatore and Wallis. Nothing to sneeze at.

Some supporters seem to think that certain players won't make a "difference". It becomes an accumulative effect. Cross takes the heat off Jones, Vince takes the heat off Trengove and Jones ? Michie takes the heat off Viney. A second year Viney take the heat off Jones too. A third year Tyson helps take the heat off everybody. If players improve a side they make a difference. And if enough do it the difference can be huge.

There's no doubt we need these new players to perform to their capability, but if they do we'll get quantum reward. If they don't ... you know the story.

Ben, I often disagree with you,but I do think you've nailed it.

Tom Sheridan, who has just re-signed with Freo, reckons Viv will be a gun inside mid.

If he and Tyson can actually string games together without getting injured, then in combination with Cross and Vince, the natural improvement of Viney and Toumpas, and the undying efforts of JonesN and Trengove, the midfield will be exponentially improved.

As it needs to be. I suspect that your bete noir, JW, will also improve dramatically.

Ben, I often disagree with you,but I do think you've nailed it.

A clear breakthrough for you.

A clear breakthrough for you.

Ha! Benny you do give me a laugh.

On your response to my other post stating its far too simple, I'm happy with that as I don't want to over complicate things.

I have faith those players will be solid enough but I'm not getting my hopes up (again) and would rather go about this season as planning for the worst while hoping for the best.

• our mids will still be [censored], rejects or guys who couldn't crack the best 22, if u believe otherwise u are effin kiddin yourself

I'll bite on behalf of our 12 or so mids.

Nate & all the Jacks send their regards !

Slow