OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[Hannibal 5,814]

So pick the biggest odd-ball nutcase, who accosts Prime Ministers in the street with no respect, and portray them as mainstream?

You've got a complete madman on this very thread who posts photo after photo of concocted Abbott images and you don't think it's widespread ?

[hardtack 10,514]

You've got a complete madman on this very thread who posts photo after photo of concocted Abbott images and you don't think it's widespread ?

Would you have been referring to him as a "madman" if he had been posting concocted images of Gillard a year or two ago?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Would you have been referring to him as a "madman" if he had been posting concocted images of Gillard a year or two ago?

One or two ? Probably not.

The same volume ? Absolutely. He's a fruitcake.

[nutbean 8,838]

Would you have been referring to him as a "madman" if he had been posting concocted images of Gillard a year or two ago?

Its a stretch posting images of any politician as has been done on here and comparing it to that "madman" who verbally abused Abbott on the street with nonsensical ravings.

Edit - it is akin to me putting the link to Stephanie Bannister ( One Nation Candidate) and suggesting she is the poster girl for the right - lunatics are lunatics whether they be on the left or the right

Edited February 24, 2014 by nutbean

[Earl Hood 6,082]

I think you may have misinterpreted my statement a little. I wasn't disputing if anyone in the ALP was immoral enough to pay for this. I KNOW there are people in there who are. It was more a statement of that they hopefully aren't that tactically stupid to make payments directly from head office. I was hoping that they wouldn't make payments to Craig Thomson for moral reasons but as I said, that was more hope than actual reality.

In the end, who paid what and so forth will be something no one can win on. The facts are the ALP is a huge organization that doesn't operate with a 'borg' style shared consciousness. There will be people in the organization and on the periphery who may be acting without head office being aware.

I don't have a good impression of the ALP but let's not pretend they are something they aren't. They are cynical, Machiavellian and opportunistic, yes. However, they are more Malcolm Tucker than Boris Badenov.

Colin I have to take issue with you on this. I have always thought that Boris Badenov received a lot of undeserved bad press over the years. He was constantly bullied by that pesky squirrel and that Moose! I mean at least Boris was in a conventional, heterosexual relationship with that alluring, goth, Natasha. What do think Rocky and Bullwinkle were up to behind closed doors, hey? Edited February 24, 2014 by The Hood

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Would you have been referring to him as a "madman" if he had been posting concocted images of Gillard a year or two ago?

From Ben-Her I take this as a compliment

The great thing about our current PM, actually its the only good thing I would say about him, is the longer he remains in office the more material I will have to post on this thread.

Edited February 24, 2014 by DemonFrog

[Guest]

Colin I have to take issue with you on this. I have always thought that Boris Badenov received a lot of undeserved bad press over the years. He was constantly bullied by that pesky squirrel and that Moose! I mean at least Boris was in a conventional, heterosexual relationship with that alluring, goth, Natasha. What do think Rocky and Bullwinkle up to behind closed doors, hey?

You forgot to add 'You know it makes sense, I'm Sam Kekovich' to sign off on that.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

[Hannibal 5,814]

The Left prefers to kill 1100 with compassion

Andrew Bolt

FEBRUARY

26

2014

(7:35am)

Greens MP Adam Bandt ups the Left’s hyperbole on asylum seekers:

A young man came to our door seeking our help and we killed him. The Minister must resign & island prisons must stop

Miranda Devine puts Bandt in his box:

THAT single quote from Greens MP Adam Bandt sums up the emotional flatulence and sanctimonious hypocrisy that has been spewing from the Establishment Left all week.

If by “we”, Bandt meant the Greens and the rest of the opportunistic bleeding hearts who have been parading their compassion all week, then he would have been correct.

Because if anyone is to blame for the death of 23-year-old asylum seeker Reza Berati during a violent riot at Manus Island it is those very people who persuaded Kevin Rudd to dismantle the Howard government’s hard-won border protection. And further, it was the toxic partnership of the Greens and Labor which turbocharged the people smuggling racket and lured asylum seekers like Berati with the promise of open borders.

Yet Labor’s Senator Sue Lines had the hide to accuse Scott Morrison of having “Blood on his hands”.Greens leader Christine Milne even came close to accusing Immigration Minister Scott Morrison of “murder”.

What a joke.

Janet Albrechtsen:

On the weekend, the Greens encouraged like-minded people to gather in parks, light a candle to mark the sad death of Reza Berati and demand the end to the Manus Island detention facility… Greens leader Christine Milne called the death of Berati a “murder,” demanded a royal commission and the sacking of Immigration Minister Scott Morrison.

Milne’s hubristic leadership stalker Sarah Hanson-Young presumed to speak for all Australians when she said the Australian people were “shocked” at this “gulag” and wanted it closed. Not to be outdone, Greens MP Adam Bandt said “a young man came to our doorstep seeking our help and we killed him.” More low-rent politics from Labor MP Sue Lyons who said Morrison definitely had “blood on his hands”. GK Chesterton once said there was scarcely a shade of difference left between meaning well and meaning nothing. Alas, the hysteria from the disaffected Left is not a case of well-meaning nothingness. It is downright dangerous.

Start with the rank hypocrisy of those who favour emotion over reason. Did the human candle-holders demand a change in the former Labor government’s policies that encouraged the people-smuggling business that led to 1200 tragedies between 2007 and last year? Did these grandstanders call for the resignation of the stream of Labor immigration ministers under whose watch 1200 men, women and children died? ...

Even worse, their demand that the Manus detention facility be shut down points to a grotesque morality. It would kick-start the people-smuggling business, encouraging more people to venture across dangerous seas and inevitably lead to hundreds if not thousands more deaths.

[mauriesy 7,261]

Indeed, they should be stopping the boats leaving Indonesia. Previous governments back through Gillard, Rudd and Howard, failed grossly in that respect. (BTW, best wait until cyclone season is over before claiming 100% success.)

But that doesn't mean they have to treat current detainees like s**t.

I don't see how mis-treating asylum seekers incommunicado on an island jail plays any part at all in stopping a 'kick-starting' of boat departures from Java.

And is a few deaths on a remote island an acceptable price to pay for no drownings on the seas? Albrechtsen seems to think so. I'd prefer no deaths anywhere.

P.S. You got anyone to quote other than Bolt?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Indeed, they should be stopping the boats leaving Indonesia. Previous governments back through Gillard, Rudd and Howard, failed grossly in that respect. (BTW, best wait until cyclone season is over before claiming 100% success.)

But that doesn't mean they have to treat current detainees like s**t.

I don't see how mis-treating asylum seekers incommunicado on an island jail plays any part at all in stopping a 'kick-starting' of boat departures from Java.

And is a few deaths on a remote island an acceptable price to pay for no drownings on the seas? Albrechtsen seems to think so. I'd prefer no deaths anywhere.

P.S. You got anyone to quote other than Bolt?

perhaps we could send them all to Hamilton Island ? & send that green SH-Y one to manus, for a prolonged stay.

[Guest]

Indeed, they should be stopping the boats leaving Indonesia. Previous governments back through Gillard, Rudd and Howard, failed grossly in that respect. (BTW, best wait until cyclone season is over before claiming 100% success.)

But that doesn't mean they have to treat current detainees like s**t.

I don't see how mis-treating asylum seekers incommunicado on an island jail plays any part at all in stopping a 'kick-starting' of boat departures from Java.

And is a few deaths on a remote island an acceptable price to pay for no drownings on the seas? Albrechtsen seems to think so. I'd prefer no deaths anywhere.

P.S. You got anyone to quote other than Bolt?

The problem with this debate is that it is now getting dumbed down to insane depths.

It seems you are for either open border anarchy or detention which supposedly 'works'.

The Rudd/Gillard policy didn't work because there was no engagement with the region to ensure people didn't get on boats in the first place. Indeed, mandatory detention needed to be scrapped but it needed to be coupled with a system that allows people to come here without getting on a boat to begin with.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Indeed, they should be stopping the boats leaving Indonesia. Previous governments back through Gillard, Rudd and Howard, failed grossly in that respect. (BTW, best wait until cyclone season is over before claiming 100% success.)

But that doesn't mean they have to treat current detainees like s**t.

I don't see how mis-treating asylum seekers incommunicado on an island jail plays any part at all in stopping a 'kick-starting' of boat departures from Java.

And is a few deaths on a remote island an acceptable price to pay for no drownings on the seas? Albrechtsen seems to think so. I'd prefer no deaths anywhere.

P.S. You got anyone to quote other than Bolt?

You seem more aware than me about how the asylum seekers are treated. They should be processed quicker and returned if need be, but having not been at these centres I'm unaware of their conditions.

Clearly off-shore processing is a deterrent, as is "turning back the boats". Certainly more palatable than deaths at sea and creating an industry for those who traffic in human misery.

You'd prefer Abbott's policy to Rudd/Gillard's ?

I source Bolt, because his clear common sense approach sits well with me. I virtually never disagree with his views. A very smart man is Bolta.

[P-man 13,366]

I just watched Tony's Davos speech for the first time....

Wow.

If ever there was a perfect illustration of this thread's title, that would be it.

I wonder which pearl of wisdom left the deepest impression on some of the world's greatest economical thinkers.

“You can’t spend what you haven’t got.”

“Markets are the proven answer to the problem of scarcity.”

“People trade with each other because it’s in their interest to do so.”

“Progress usually comes one step at a time.”

Mmmm.

Perhaps they were more captured by his spruiking of the paid parental leave scheme, or his dreams of being the infrastructure PM, “...because time spent in traffic jams is time lost from work and family.”

Bill Gates, let's get your thoughts on traffic jams.

Let's not forget the massive faux pas of him attacking domestic opponents, with this little gem:

"..a subsequent government decided that the Crisis had changed the rules and that we should spend our way to prosperity. The reason for spending soon passed but the spending didn’t stop because, when it comes to spending, governments can be like addicts in search of a fix. But after the recent election, Australia is under new management and open for business.”

Parking the fact that Tony still seems to think he's on the campaign trail and simply cannot get over his obsession with bashing his predecessors, even at the most inappropriate of times, fancy telling a room full of people who would be acutely aware that rapid spending was the reason Australia emerged from the GFC relatively unscathed, indeed the package was praised worldwide, that it was all a regrettable "changing of the rules".

It boggles the mind how utterly stupid and clumsy this man is.

I don't know what else to say. A great precursor to the G20. Let's hope he doesn't put them all to sleep with his welcoming address.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I just watched Tony's Davos speech for the first time....

Wow.

If ever there was a perfect illustration of this thread's title, that would be it.

I wonder which pearl of wisdom left the deepest impression on some of the world's greatest economical thinkers.

“You can’t spend what you haven’t got.”

“Markets are the proven answer to the problem of scarcity.”

“People trade with each other because it’s in their interest to do so.”

“Progress usually comes one step at a time.”

Mmmm.

Perhaps they were more captured by his spruiking of the paid parental leave scheme, or his dreams of being the infrastructure PM, “...because time spent in traffic jams is time lost from work and family.”

Bill Gates, let's get your thoughts on traffic jams.

Let's not forget the massive faux pas of him attacking domestic opponents, with this little gem:

"..a subsequent government decided that the Crisis had changed the rules and that we should spend our way to prosperity. The reason for spending soon passed but the spending didn’t stop because, when it comes to spending, governments can be like addicts in search of a fix. But after the recent election, Australia is under new management and open for business.”

Parking the fact that Tony still seems to think he's on the campaign trail and simply cannot get over his obsession with bashing his predecessors, even at the most inappropriate of times, fancy telling a room full of people who would be acutely aware that rapid spending was the reason Australia emerged from the GFC relatively unscathed, indeed the package was praised worldwide, that it was all a regrettable "changing of the rules".

It boggles the mind how utterly stupid and clumsy this man is.

I don't know what else to say. A great precursor to the G20. Let's hope he doesn't put them all to sleep with his welcoming address.

You haven't provided one example of where he's stupid or clumsy.

Congrats.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

I just watched Tony's Davos speech for the first time....

Wow.

If ever there was a perfect illustration of this thread's title, that would be it.

I wonder which pearl of wisdom left the deepest impression on some of the world's greatest economical thinkers.

“You can’t spend what you haven’t got.”

“Markets are the proven answer to the problem of scarcity.”

“People trade with each other because it’s in their interest to do so.”

“Progress usually comes one step at a time.”

Mmmm.

Perhaps they were more captured by his spruiking of the paid parental leave scheme, or his dreams of being the infrastructure PM, “...because time spent in traffic jams is time lost from work and family.”

Bill Gates, let's get your thoughts on traffic jams.

Let's not forget the massive faux pas of him attacking domestic opponents, with this little gem:

"..a subsequent government decided that the Crisis had changed the rules and that we should spend our way to prosperity. The reason for spending soon passed but the spending didn’t stop because, when it comes to spending, governments can be like addicts in search of a fix. But after the recent election, Australia is under new management and open for business.”

Parking the fact that Tony still seems to think he's on the campaign trail and simply cannot get over his obsession with bashing his predecessors, even at the most inappropriate of times, fancy telling a room full of people who would be acutely aware that rapid spending was the reason Australia emerged from the GFC relatively unscathed, indeed the package was praised worldwide, that it was all a regrettable "changing of the rules".

It boggles the mind how utterly stupid and clumsy this man is.

I don't know what else to say. A great precursor to the G20. Let's hope he doesn't put them all to sleep with his welcoming address.

Another deep thinker

[Earl Hood 6,082]

I note the Minister for Revenge, George Brandis stating to a Senate committee one minute that he had not provided cabinet papers from the previous government to the new Royal Circus inquiry into the pink batts. A few hours later it seems another senate committee found the Prime Ministers department had already sent the documents off via George's department.

Of course we know George would not have read the documents, the same as the East Timor documents he and ASIO stole but did not read before it all went to theInternational Court in The Hague.

George B has a lot of alternative reading to do to work through his new big bookcase.!

Edited February 26, 2014 by The Hood

[P-man 13,366]

If Pauline was asked to give a speech on global economics, it would almost be on par with Tony's for insight. Just a bunch of embarrassingly simplistic faff mixed with inappropriate domestic politics and sprinkled with ignorance. How he is a Rhodes scholar with a degree in economics is nothing short of amazing. I would encourage people to watch it and draw your own conclusions.

It's a pity the mainstream media didn't reveal his speech for what it was. This review hits the nail on the head - http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/abbotts-davos-moment/820/

[Earl Hood 6,082]

If Pauline was asked to give a speech on global economics, it would almost be on par with Tony's for insight. Just a bunch of embarrassingly simplistic faff mixed with inappropriate domestic politics and sprinkled with ignorance. How he is a Rhodes scholar with a degree in economics is nothing short of amazing. I would encourage people to watch it and draw your own conclusions.

It's a pity the mainstream media didn't reveal his speech for what it was. This review hits the nail on the head - http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/abbotts-davos-moment/820/

As I commented at the time most of the audience were asleep and those who stayed awake were trying to work,out why he was talking to them like they were halfwits!

Unfortunately that is how Tony comes across, stating the bleeding obvious but in a slow, patronising voice that assumes we are all dumb and adds nothing to anyone's knowledge. Not unlike Joe Hockey now I come to think of it. But let's face it they are talking to the Sun Herald readership and more importantly trying to get their message through to Uncle Rupert who needs the message to be very simple and repeated often to remain happy. He is a lonely and scorned old man these days who needs to be mollycoddled.

Edited February 26, 2014 by The Hood

[Guest]

If Pauline was asked to give a speech on global economics, it would almost be on par with Tony's for insight. Just a bunch of embarrassingly simplistic faff mixed with inappropriate domestic politics and sprinkled with ignorance. How he is a Rhodes scholar with a degree in economics is nothing short of amazing. I would encourage people to watch it and draw your own conclusions.

It's a pity the mainstream media didn't reveal his speech for what it was. This review hits the nail on the head - http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/abbotts-davos-moment/820/

Strangely though, that has worked for him. There was a particular segment of the electorate that he did appeal to in 2010 and 2013 who eat that simplistic crap up with a spoon.

This will be the nicest thing I will say about Abbott. He may go down, along with Gough Whitlam, as the greatest opposition leader in modern Australian political history. He took a government that was flying in late 2009 and took it to a hung parliament, made it dispatch two of it's prime ministers and then beat it convincingly in the rematch. However, like Gough, my feeling is that he will go down as one of the worst PM's in Australian history. He has tried to transfer what has worked for him to his Prime Ministership (unending negativity, bullyboy tactics and a brain dead simplicity in regards to policy matters).

[P-man 13,366]

Strangely though, that has worked for him. There was a particular segment of the electorate that he did appeal to in 2010 and 2013 who eat that simplistic crap up with a spoon.

This will be the nicest thing I will say about Abbott. He may go down, along with Gough Whitlam, as the greatest opposition leader in modern Australian political history. He took a government that was flying in late 2009 and took it to a hung parliament, made it dispatch two of it's prime ministers and then beat it convincingly in the rematch. However, like Gough, my feeling is that he will go down as one of the worst PM's in Australian history. He has tried to transfer what has worked for him to his Prime Ministership (unending negativity, bullyboy tactics and a brain dead simplicity in regards to policy matters).

What I can't fathom is why he would churn out his one liners and shallow thinking to an international and esteemed audience such as this. Here was an opportunity to show off his intellectual chops and he produces, "profit is a good thing" whilst prattling on with his idiot slogans that he's been running for 12 months.

I take your point re his "efficiency" as an Opposition Leader, but at this point that is the absolute best thing you could say about Abbott. He's good at being negative. He also can't break out of the mould, as evident in calling for a royal commission into the handling of the home insulation program and providing it with Labor's cabinet documents, breaking long standing convention against such practice. If the commission is about anything other than political point scoring and vindictiveness, I'll eat my hat. Abbott is creating a political environment that can only be described as toxic. He is setting precedents that can only be undone if his successors can show a little more class and decide not to return the favour. Let's hope that they can.

Edited February 26, 2014 by P-man

[mauriesy 7,261]

You under-estimate Abbott.

The aim of the Royal Commissions into the home insulation program and into the 5 Unions is to provide anti-Labor fodder for the next election. Abbott knows that Royal Commissions will find some damaging information, that they run for a long time, and that they get plenty of free publicity.

Every Liberal-NP government as far back as I can remember has held some sort of inquiry or commission, designed to damage their opponents long-term, when they get into office. They very rarely nail anyone specifically, but make lots of noise.

Beating up on unions is in Liberals' DNA, even when workers' conditions aren't even that generous, are not the root cause of industry problems, or when wages growth is below the level of inflation, like now.

[Guest]

What I can't fathom is why he would churn out his one liners and shallow thinking to an international and esteemed audience such as this. Here was an opportunity to show off his intellectual chops and he produces, "profit is a good thing" whilst prattling on with his [censored] slogans that he's been running for 12 months.

I take your point re his "efficiency" as an Opposition Leader, but at this point that is the absolute best thing you could say about Abbott. He's good at being negative. He also can't break out of the mould, as evident in calling for a royal commission into the handling of the home insulation program and providing it with Labor's cabinet documents, breaking long standing convention against such practice. If the commission is about anything other than political point scoring and vindictiveness, I'll eat my hat. Abbott is creating a political environment that can only be described as toxic. He is setting precedents that can only be undone if his successors can show a little more class and decide not to return the favour. Let's hope that they can.

I think that with blokes like he and W. that kind of simplistic condescension becomes ingrained within them.

I remember a story about George W. Bush that might prove illuminating. It occurred during his second term when he was trying to get immigration reform through. It was one of those rare times where he was on the opposite side to his base and therefore had to meet with disgruntled Republican congressmen who disliked what they called amnesty. For so very long, they stood up for W. when his liberal critics branded his presentation of policy simplistic and lacking intellectual curiosity. Now they were on the opposite side of the fence, they were about to find out first hand what the 'libruls' were talking about. Bush preceded to talk like everything that was pertinent in the debate was only familiar to him and spoke to grown men as though they were six years old and he was explaining to them why they shouldn't touch a hot stove. The congressmen pointed this out to Bush and the chances of passing comprehensive immigration reform was lost.

Abbott, for better or worse, has spent most of his time talking to the Australian electorate and that has been where he has had his most success. For him, it would be obvious that the same approach would gain him the same success in the international arena. Sadly for him, he is very much mistaken.

[dee-luded 2,959]

You under-estimate Abbott.

The aim of the Royal Commissions into the home insulation program and into the 5 Unions is to provide anti-Labor fodder for the next election. Abbott knows that Royal Commissions will find some damaging information, that they run for a long time, and that they get plenty of free publicity.

Every Liberal-NP government as far back as I can remember has held some sort of inquiry or commission, designed to damage their opponents long-term, when they get into office. They very rarely nail anyone specifically, but make lots of noise.

Beating up on unions is in Liberals' DNA, even when workers' conditions aren't even that generous, are not the root cause of industry problems, or when wages growth is below the level of inflation, like now.

Actually its more than just hurting the Labor party, for the next elections sake.

the Western powers are struggling to fire up they're economies above 1st gear...

So they are collectively going to drive down the working classes wages & conditions, so in the Right Wing opinions, they can compete against the Asian economies... its a race to the bottom...

these tactics will hurt the so called conservative governments, the world over.

Especially here in Australia where we value a fair go. This is the beginning of the end of greed, but it won't show for some time, 'until the full weight of the hurt' has been dished out to the working class peoples.

they will eventually revolt.

so Abbott & his cronies think they know whats good for the people, but they're wrong... and they will go down with infamy.

capitalism with change forever, after this episode passes, in a few years time.... head for the hills L's&G's

Edited February 27, 2014 by dee-luded

[Hannibal 5,814]

Boat people policy

IN the six years Labor ran our border policies one boat person — on average — died every two days. The death toll was horrific — at least 1100.

But where were the GetUp candlelight rallies then to match the one we saw last week for the one boat person, Iranian Reza Berati, who died last week under the Abbott Government?

Where was the wall-to-wall ABC coverage? Where were the demands then for the resignation of the politicians behind the deadliest mistake of any peacetime Australian government — to weaken our border laws in 2008 to seem more “compassionate”, only to put people smugglers back into business?

What we are seeing now is not just the hypocrisy of the Left. It is also an illustration of a key difference between them and conservatives: the Left judging by how things seem; conservatives by how things work.

It is the difference between children and adults.