Arent we being civil ? They spy on us.....they attempt to manipulate.. They do you know. Everyone does. They want to get all uppity

[censored] THEM !!

I only say that because almost every post of yours in a discussion about the current government attempts to turn the focus on either Labor, who I reiterate are now in Opposition, or the media that you think has a vendetta against Abbott. If you want to talk about "credibility" (which doesn't bother me tbh), yours isn't helped by that.

The blame? Blame for what? This is common practice under all governments, surely you acknowledge that. So what blame, exactly? The blame for the leak is Snowden and to an extent the ABC for choosing to making it all very public.

We know the state of the economy when Labor lost government. All that has been asked for is some sort of justification for raising the debt cap to 500 billion, when debt was only estimated to reach 360 billion by 2016. Hockey is refusing, and spinning the line about "this is Labor's mess". How gullible/understanding does he expect people to be? Don't you want a transparent government? Remember this is after a campaign about cutting the waste and REDUCING the debt.

This good enough for you? Sounds like an effing mess to me.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/500b-debt-limit-prudent-treasury-secretary-martin-parkinson-20131120-2xuzc.html

I'm not accusing you of bigotry beezle-

Though"these kind" does sound a bit "old fashioned" as a lot of people are really a bit of this and a bit of that in racial terms.

We are all hypocritical at times but it would be far better for the country,and the world if we remained civil toward each other ,as I often forget to do right here!

these kind refers to "upper middle class connected " from Indonesia...yes.. Just happens to be of whom we are talking

This good enough for you? Sounds like an effing mess to me.

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/500b-debt-limit-prudent-treasury-secretary-martin-parkinson-20131120-2xuzc.html

Sorry Rob, I thought you'd abandoned this thread after it was deemed a waste of your time. Toys are all back in the pram are they mate?

If the Treasury Secretary is saying that at Estimates, of course it has to be listened to. My point was that if you're going to ask for an increase of that significance, asking for a budget outlook to support it isn't exactly an unreasonable request. .

Oh, and good to see you're citing articles from The Age now. I'm glad the corrupt lefty scum occasionally produce an article you can support.

Can you trust this man?

Sorry Rob, I thought you'd abandoned this thread after it was deemed a waste of your time. Toys are all back in the pram are they mate?

If the Treasury Secretary is saying that at Estimates, of course it has to be listened to. My point was that if you're going to ask for an increase of that significance, asking for a budget outlook to support it isn't exactly an unreasonable request. .

Oh, and good to see you're citing articles from The Age now. I'm glad the corrupt lefty scum occasionally produce an article you can support.

I suppose that's your way of saying you were wrong; it's a bit hard to tell.

I always have a look at the Age, it's always good to know what the enemy are up to.

The Indonesian Govt is...and mske no mistake a closet bunch of self serving crooks who have much vestage in preserving the status quo as modt of them,personally , or through family interests have fingers in many pies.

Many years back their fishing fleets regularly stole from our waters . This slowed after our navy accidently missed when firing across somr bows and blew some out of the f@#*ing water !! Thats whst they understand....brinkmanship.

I genuinely feel for the average Indonesian as no one is really looking out for them , certainly not their own govt.

DC is correct. This is chest puffinv for their own propaganda efforts re impendinv elections.

Personally id pull their ambassor in and quietly explain the NEW lay of the land. You need to treat these virtual dictators with the contempt they deserve. They can co oprerate or we should make their lot a merry hell.

Time to stop namby pamby pussyfooting and grow some.

dampier,flinders,baudain

all encountered what was thought to be strange ruins on the Australian coast

after investigation they found up to 5,000 fishermen visiting the shores for up to 3 months per year

all enquiries led them to believe these fishing forays were goimg on for at least 300 years pre 1800

I suppose those fishermen didn't influence the natives and considered the north western shorelines open territory

dampier,flinders,baudain

all encountered what was thought to be strange ruins on the Australian coast

after investigation they found up to 5,000 fishermen visiting the shores for up to 3 months per year

all enquiries led them to believe these fishing forays were goimg on for at least 300 years pre 1800

I suppose those fishermen didn't influence the natives and considered the north western shorelines open territory

not really sure what point youre making, other than a way back machine visit to a day long ago.

We are talking about today

was he wearing any pants at the time he uttered this

Wasn't he the guy who was one of the first to recognise the Mugabee regime? How did that work out for you Malcolm?

Certainly showed as much judgement then as he did when he decided to leave his pants at home.

not really sure what point youre making, other than a way back machine visit to a day long ago.

We are talking about today

wasn't a personal dig

but you said their fishing fleets stole from our waters a few years ago

my point was before Europeans even got here.they were already traditionly here

also under white English law "grandfathers rights" recognise longetivity

unless their indonesion of course

I suppose that's your way of saying you were wrong; it's a bit hard to tell.

I always have a look at the Age, it's always good to know what the enemy are up to.

Only if you have a comprehension iissue when reading my original post.

Again, all I was saying was that for the government to increase the debt cap to that amount in one hit, some justification is needed. But hey, if you want to chalk up a win mate, go right ahead. We're Dees fans. We don't get many.

As an aside, I like that when Treasury says something that appears to favour your argument, it is gospel. The rest of the time, can't trust a word the buggers say. That's not an attack on you per se, just a general attitude I've come across.

Wasn't he the guy who was one of the first to recognise the Mugabee regime? How did that work out for you Malcolm?

Certainly showed as much judgement then as he did when he decided to leave his pants at home.

That's a bit unfair RF... everyone was recognising the Mugabe regime at the time because the whites were no longer in control... at the time it was considered a step in the right direction and no-one could see what was coming (Mugabe had been a political prisoner, much like Mandella I suppose, for a number of years under Ian Smith's minority govt). I was watching the documentary Marley the other day and was surprised to see him playing at Mugabe's independence celebrations in 1980 (despite the fact Mugabe wasn't that keen on having him perform)... but when you think about it, at the time it made perfect sense.

There were Journalists who were aware that the Debt cap was going to be exceeded and said so last week, so I'm sure the Labor Government would have been as well they just wanted to play silly buggers and try to blame the Libs for increasing Debt.

Is that correct, from Wikipedia.

A former deputy secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has stated that Fraser was "the principal architect" in the installation of Robert Mugabe. Tanznaian President Julius Nyerere said he considered Fraser's role "crucial in many parts", and Zambian President Kenneth Kaunda called it "vital".

Is that correct, from Wikipedia.

A former deputy secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has stated that Fraser was "the principal architect" in the installation of Robert Mugabe. Tanznaian President Julius Nyerere said he considered Fraser's role "crucial in many parts", and Zambian President Kenneth Kaunda called it "vital".

Not sure that that goes against anything I said. At the time, Mugabe was considered a hero amongst his people and so would have been considered the logical choice as leader. Fraser may have had input, but really the ball was set in motion by the British (Lord Carington).

Not sure that that goes against anything I said. At the time, Mugabe was considered a hero amongst his people and so would have been considered the logical choice as leader. Fraser may have had input, but really the ball was set in motion by the British (Lord Carington).

tim,i do remember at the time that some sort of trade talks happened and it did look like fraser was all for Mugabe.

just cant recall the details,but do think of a front page headline and picture

it added up to a pat on the back and all clear from our government to give credit to the new regime

The whole point of the previous posts was Fraser's judgement, which appears to be pretty poor.

tim,i do remember at the time that some sort of trade talks happened and it did look like fraser was all for Mugabe.

just cant recall the details,but do think of a front page headline and picture

it added up to a pat on the back and all clear from our government to give credit to the new regime

I don't disagree... I just think that at the time, no-one knew what was coming re Mugabe's transformation to raving looney.

was he wearing any pants at the time he uttered this

God I hope so

He a POME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wasn't a personal dig

but you said their fishing fleets stole from our waters a few years ago

my point was before Europeans even got here.they were already traditionly here

also under white English law "grandfathers rights" recognise longetivity

unless their indonesion of course

The point I was making is there are in place and have been for many years treaties and agreements between countries ( in this modern era ) as to delineations and sovereignties. The Indonesians flout these with total disregard. They get shltty when anyones wants to bring them to task and go cry boohoo etc.

Id be surprised if anyone in govt there sleeps straight in bed. Not saying ours are angels but in the main play by the rules. They have notoriously disregarded most of them.