Ok. It wasn't 'only GWS', it was a team of predominantly 19 year olds.

I liked seeing us kick 12 goals in a quarter but to be honest we REALLY need some quality play put together against a side that forces us to compete. I can't imagine that Neelds defensive coaching style would be built around us having 12 goal quarters. In that regard I find him a fascinating coach. He's been all about defensive pressure yet the only time we've looked like a side this year it's been really attacking.

In that regard I still think easily his most impressive victory was against Essendon last year and oddly enough it's a statistical anomaly in terms of our competitiveness.

Completely agree, THBT. I thought I could see where we were going after that victory. I haven't seen it since though. I hope I see it this weekend against, it must be said, an injury hit bottom 6 side.

Nothing has changed just because we smashed GWS in one quarter. Neeld knows this. We have to turn up on Sunday, otherwise it will have all been for nought.

Of course, the change has begun, but the strain will remain until we get the new group up on it's feet, & we need all our best Senior players out there at the same time, to make it show.

I agree.

Anyone see ch10 sport tonight. neeld was asked some questions then someone asked him about Watts shaving off his beard. Neeld just shook his head in disbelief and wasnt happy with the question.

"Fair dinkum, sometimes you feel like saying 'I don't really want to dignify that with an answer'," he said.

"If we're going to sit around and talk about the fact that some players have beards and some don't, come on guys.

"I'm happy to talk about the game, but for me as a senior coach, come on."

yes,,, but some people think he didn't know what he's doing from the start,,, & I'm saying he does & did... he's working to an Important plan.

many do not understand what Is needed. & required. & the wrong way we've done things in the past eras.

Could not have agreed with you more, when the players finally get that this is how an elite club works things will turn around quickly and many people will eat their words.

Could not have agreed with you more, when the players finally get that this is how an elite club works things will turn around quickly and many people will eat their words.

Theres still a Lot of building to do & things to be put in place, but it has started,,, & its obvious that Neeld started the sort last year in his mind, & on the list at the end of the season.

Word had it mid last year, that he wished he'd cleaned the list, when he first took over prior to 2012 season. I'm just as happy we have done it this way, but I like to Err on the side of caution first, before going too hard.

I'm sure many people are "absolutely crosseyed" with whats taken place over the offseason with our list,,, & 'I Know', some definitely Are, & are in pain as we speak.

this is the right way, & many Coaches have tread this road before. but a big cut is scary for many to cope with.

Could not have agreed with you more, when the players finally get that this is how an elite club works things will turn around quickly and many people will eat their words.

My knife and fork are well and truly ready. They have 6 years of rust on them so it might be a bit of a sour meal.

I want him to succeed, I really genuinely do. It just worries me that on one hand we have to constantly hear about accountability and work rate and on the other hear how the players are so far behind other clubs (with the insinuation that Bailey was a hack). Management is about 2 things - responsibility and performance. The performance is very ordinary as we all know and too often it's because our training wasn't right before. That doesn't sound responsible to me.

Unfortunately he doesn't have time to mould the club into exactly what he wants. To do that is to ignore the business realities of the sport. To the original point of the thread he is learning, but we don't have time for too much more learning. If his track record remains after 40 odd games the industry will do what it's always done and cut him, and they'll do it because the performances aren't good enough and ultimately he is responsible for that.

I know people would disagree, but at this point i would be willing to back Neeld in for the rest of the year,

dee-luded, if Neeld had some of the players he cleaned out from the start some might still be there, people won't see the development plans that are in place for another season or so as the they don't understand the process of how it's done or why, example with top clubs what they teach their players are the roles that they have to play to suit the senior side so when call up come they do it instinctively and confidently. Neeld is on the right path and I for one hope he is given a chance to see out his contract.

I know people would disagree, but at this point i would be willing to back Neeld in for the rest of the year,

at a minumum...

there is only one way I would change tack Now, & that would be if the players went on strike, & said they want change...

when you start on a cultural change, you have to cut it right out, like you do with cancer. you have to get it all out.

theres no point in going back to the happy go lucky robbo show... or the I'm so board in the pocket yze show. or the I want easy kicks in the back pocket show... starring a cast of many.

& only turn up when the mood takes them...

dee-luded, if Neeld had some of the players he cleaned out from the start some might still be there, people won't see the development plans that are in place for another season or so as the they don't understand the process of how it's done or why, example with top clubs what they teach their players are the roles that they have to play to suit the senior side so when call up come they do it instinctively and confidently. Neeld is on the right path and I for one hope he is given a chance to see out his contract.

agreed & this is why I want our kids to spend Plenty of time in the ressies @ Casey... just like was the norm of the halcyon Hawk days of the 80's...

we must keep up the mature recruit mode together with the using early picks on our elite young talent... last year imo was a gem. however I would have loved to chase Chappy, or a hard inside mid, like a Scotland... we need mature bodied players on the list, to make our kids push themselves til they can high jump the oldies, & grab a game.

I think Byrnes was fantastic on the weekend, & Rodan will be very useful.

My knife and fork are well and truly ready. They have 6 years of rust on them so it might be a bit of a sour meal.

I want him to succeed, I really genuinely do. It just worries me that on one hand we have to constantly hear about accountability and work rate and on the other hear how the players are so far behind other clubs (with the insinuation that Bailey was a hack). Management is about 2 things - responsibility and performance. The performance is very ordinary as we all know and too often it's because our training wasn't right before. That doesn't sound responsible to me.

Unfortunately he doesn't have time to mould the club into exactly what he wants. To do that is to ignore the business realities of the sport. To the original point of the thread he is learning, but we don't have time for too much more learning. If his track record remains after 40 odd games the industry will do what it's always done and cut him, and they'll do it because the performances aren't good enough and ultimately he is responsible for that.

THBT, I will try to explain it like this (hope it comes out right) you buy a house you move into it then you find out it needs re-blocking, roof leaks, electrical wiring needs replacing etc, this is how the MFC was, like you spent a lot of money investing but now you are just treading water to pay for it well when Neeld came in, the football department had no structure no spending in development of players and has it has been admitted by some players sadly lacking fitness to play at a high level. If people think Neeld and co are doing anything different to what top clubs expect then they are fooling themselves, so I suppose what I am saying the foundations have to be strong before you can get the rest of the building right.

THBT, I will try to explain it like this (hope it comes out right) you buy a house you move into it then you find out it needs re-blocking, roof leaks, electrical wiring needs replacing etc, this is how the MFC was, like you spent a lot of money investing but now you are just treading water to pay for it well when Neeld came in, the football department had no structure no spending in development of players and has it has been admitted by some players sadly lacking fitness to play at a high level. If people think Neeld and co are doing anything different to what top clubs expect then they are fooling themselves, so I suppose what I am saying the foundations have to be strong before you can get the rest of the building right.

I totally agree with this! the other side of it is that as Mark Neeld himself said, we have guys who have played 50 games expected to play like 150 game players because that's what we are up against, our list has some amazing talent but needs a good foundation so when they are 150 game players we can have a real crack at a flag. Mark Neeld sets that foundation and needs to be backed.

This isn't yet another doom and gloom thread.

I just read the AFL.com article that quoted Colin Garland as saying Neeldy is coaching better than he ever has. In particular, Col (Garland, not this one) said that he was impressed at how he let the boys just play instinctive footy and has done a good job in protecting the players from the fall out of the three beltings at the start of the year.

Has Neeldy started to come to the realization that he needs to work with the players, rather than work against them? Has he realized that he can be authoritative as a coach but not authoritarian? Has he discovered that he can have a relationship with the boys but when the time comes he is able to tell them what is and what is not on?

I don't want things to go back to the time of Bailey when players were calling the shots exclusively but I have wanted him to at least become a little more flexible in his approach. What do others think?

I think he has come to this realization but he has come to it pretty late. Whether or not it will save him as a coach remains to be seen.

THBT, I will try to explain it like this (hope it comes out right) you buy a house you move into it then you find out it needs re-blocking, roof leaks, electrical wiring needs replacing etc, this is how the MFC was, like you spent a lot of money investing but now you are just treading water to pay for it well when Neeld came in, the football department had no structure no spending in development of players and has it has been admitted by some players sadly lacking fitness to play at a high level. If people think Neeld and co are doing anything different to what top clubs expect then they are fooling themselves, so I suppose what I am saying the foundations have to be strong before you can get the rest of the building right.

I understand your point 3165. I guess my frustration is that if your going to spend your time complaining about the foundations don't buy the house in the first place. Neelds face after Rd 1 2012, and Rd 1 2013 tell me that he has the equivalent in real estate terms of buyers remorse. 'We didn't see that coming' is an entirely valid comment if its followed up by performances that more appropriately represent the endeavour expected. Instead we delivered the biggest loss at the MCG ever.

I'm not convinced he has answers, I just think that all he can do is speak about training and building because we are so uncompetitive. That's not really how the game works though. We didn't keep Cale Morton because he talked a good game and was training well. The old adage 'You have to leave everything out there' is true. It's a tough world, but if it was easy they wouldn't be paying him 400k a year to do it.

I read but do not post on this site.....however the extreme arrogance of this thread takes one's breath away. Do you ever stop to think that just maybe your perception of the coach & his relationship with the playing group is just that ....perception. There are 40 odd players on a list & you will never keep everyone completely happy but in my "perception" I think the players in general have absolutely no problems with the coach or what he is trying to achieve. That is ....turn this club into a professional afl club &the players professional afl players. He will get there....no doubt about it & maybe you should respect the 18 months or so that he has been in the job....support the exciting changes he will bring.....watch the development of our younger players.......don't expect stars after a couple of pre-seasons....& get around the players. I am not forgiving of those losses any more than any other supporter but I won't be a keyboard coward & take the soft option.....bag the coach & players. If after his tenure it has obviously not worked .....then we move on......but I have extreme confidence this will not be the case. We were behind the league in terms of fitness, work ethic etc... Fact not blaming bailey etc ....just fact. Respect neeld, Craig, mission, a pretty astute & experienced coaching team & don't be so arrogant as to suggest that your opinions are fact .......you couldn't be further from the truth. Just support your team positively for once

Well Clark thought so & this year still thinks So.

Dawes thinks so & has said so in Print.

Now Garland. Grimes has said so. & others, & I'd say that Sylvia's play over the last 12 months speaks well.

As would Jonses form..

but you know what there is no convincing some supporters, who just want blood, & same old same old... change for some is worse than death. & then after the change when things go a tad backwards intitially,,,, those supporters Panick & get scared of the change they agreed to.

yeah but how many times have you heard/read a player NOT back his current coach in the public arena? It's never happened in the history of sport

I understand your point 3165. I guess my frustration is that if your going to spend your time complaining about the foundations don't buy the house in the first place. Neelds face after Rd 1 2012, and Rd 1 2013 tell me that he has the equivalent in real estate terms of buyers remorse. 'We didn't see that coming' is an entirely valid comment if its followed up by performances that more appropriately represent the endeavour expected. Instead we delivered the biggest loss at the MCG ever.

I'm not convinced he has answers, I just think that all he can do is speak about training and building because we are so uncompetitive. That's not really how the game works though. We didn't keep Cale Morton because he talked a good game and was training well. The old adage 'You have to leave everything out there' is true. It's a tough world, but if it was easy they wouldn't be paying him 400k a year to do it.

But he would have expected as would have Maulthouse, Roos etc that the foundations weren't that bad it's only when you live and breath it that you then see the faults, have a look how the top clubs are set up and tell me that before Neeld did we do the same............or anything near it?.

Can we ever get someone on this board who is/doesn't:

1) not negative about everything?

2) crack the s***s if someone says something against the club?

But he would have expected as would have Maulthouse, Roos etc that the foundations weren't that bad it's only when you live and breath it that you then see the faults, have a look how the top clubs are set up and tell me that before Neeld did we do the same............or anything near it?.

But again these rotten foundations are only true if you believe the current perspective. If you tell people that something isn't right with them then they will clearly believe it. He was brought in with a mandate to essentially support the CEO's belief that the players weren't any good and the whole thing needed to be scrapped. Well he's certainly proven that right. I think in hindsight he'll regret going so hard so early. They are now devoid of spirit and confidence and he needs to turn them around really quickly or he'll go at the end of the year.

And in regards to those rotten foundations, whether you agree with his predecessors game plan (and for the record I thought it was riddled with holes) Bailey's coaching record is actually statistically better than Neelds currently. If he's not concerned about his career he should be.

But again these rotten foundations are only true if you believe the current perspective. If you tell people that something isn't right with them then they will clearly believe it. He was brought in with a mandate to essentially support the CEO's belief that the players weren't any good and the whole thing needed to be scrapped. Well he's certainly proven that right. I think in hindsight he'll regret going so hard so early. They are now devoid of spirit and confidence and he needs to turn them around really quickly or he'll go at the end of the year.

And in regards to those rotten foundations, whether you agree with his predecessors game plan (and for the record I thought it was riddled with holes) Bailey's coaching record is actually statistically better than Neelds currently. If he's not concerned about his career he should be.

Hardwick turned over 30 players to get what he needed so what did that say about them when he was appointed.......as bad as us.

Can we ever get someone on this board who is/doesn't:1) not negative about everything?

No! Never!

2) crack the s***s if someone says something against the club?

What are you insinuating about the club? We are just about to turn the corner on the back of this Coach and Board. How dare you!

Hardwick turned over 30 players to get what he needed so what did that say about them when he was appointed.......as bad as us.

And they looked good in the finals last year...oh, wait.

I reckon if you watch the pregame presser from Rd 1 2012 to the tone of how he speaks now you'll see a marked difference. He's learning. Pity it's taken 21 loses to get there. As Henry Matisse said 'Better late than never is poor consultation for the man that's missed the opportunity of a lifetime'. Neeld is in a tough spot now, as everyone's lining up to kick him.

I agree there has been a change, but that really has to be taken in the context of the growth both he and the club have gone through. He has undergone media training, he has had a chance to start improving players fitness, he has delisted and recruited players. The club is distinctly different than it was 18 months ago, and what was required then may not be what is required now.

I am not disputing anyone's take on Neeld, the MFC board, the footy department etc. And thre reason why not is because unless you are involved I don't think you really know much about what is going on. I don't know, I have theoreys, I agree with much on here, but tend to think what is closer to the truth is that we are actually half way between the two opinions.

My intention was just to through the other thought out there for discussion, and hopefully we can have a good one without pot shotting each other. $20k supporters shouting together in support of one team on Sunday was a fantastic feeling wasn't it?

I'm unsure of Neeld and have been for the majority of his tenure.

Just wanted to say that it's good to see you posting deanox vs on the currently viewing list.

Cheers Spork, I spend most of my time reading this site on the mobile so its a bit hard to respond!

But he would have expected as would have Maulthouse, Roos etc that the foundations weren't that bad it's only when you live and breath it that you then see the faults, have a look how the top clubs are set up and tell me that before Neeld did we do the same............or anything near it?.

My take is he new things were bad. He new the list was soft & the culture was ooordinary.

After all it was strongly mentioned that he had thought long & hard about a major cut of the list, before he entered the 2012 season.

He would have realised from when he was @ collingwood, how poor the application was & how easy it was to get over on us. But then when they arrive at the new club they soon see its worse, & more difficult to change.

Thats the thing for a new coach entering a new gig in the big league, taking on a basket case. But in the elite level competition, its not so easy to shift the old ways. There will be resistance, & stories told, & backstabbing taking place, as people lose their precious positions.

There'll be more I reckon, but the big cut has come & gone.