I wish I had.

I was hungover I wish I never went

My 2 cents of the game -

It was very hot, conditions were extreme not really sure how much you can take from the game

Our press was beaten by the saints a few times easily which I think the conditions had a lot to do with. Not a lot of pushing back hard from the Dees

Saints compusure and ball use was much better as the game went on. Took their opportunities in the 2nd the rest of the game was pretty much break even, which wasn't a bad result for us.

There is a lot of development left in this side... not all the doom and gloom i've been reading on this thread......

Oh yeah that's right, The game that Moloney slept through.....

You've missed the point of the actual argument jnr. Had nothing to do with Moloney or 186 (of which Moloney of course shares blame), but WYL and others seem over obsessed with the whole 186 thing IMO and bring it up constantly in the wrong contexts.

From what I saw of the game, we are going nowhere in hurry with our curent level of kicking skills.

Some of the players on our list have kicking skills that would be frowned upon in A grade Amo's.

It's deplorable. They are AFL players FFS.

From what I saw of the game, we are going nowhere in hurry with our curent level of kicking skills.

Some of the players on our list have kicking skills that would be frowned upon in A grade Amo's.

It's deplorable. They are AFL players FFS.

No we made them AFL players

You've missed the point of the actual argument jnr. Had nothing to do with Moloney or 186 (of which Moloney of course shares blame), but WYL and others seem over obsessed with the whole 186 thing IMO and bring it up constantly in the wrong contexts.

But i disagree. It is the root of the current problem.

No we made them AFL players

Sadly you're right.

But i disagree. It is the root of the current problem.

It's not the root, it's a byproduct.

But it had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

It's not the root, it's a byproduct.

But it had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

But it does....a team with any sort of winning culture and Leadership would NEVER let 186 occur.

Don't brush it under the carpet Stuie, it will take years to clean that mess out entirely.

186 is a state of mind now when it gets really hard on the field...Does the player go or hold back?

Neeld has a very large job to turn it around...make no mistake

But it does....a team with any sort of winning culture and Leadership would NEVER let 186 occur.

Don't brush it under the carpet Stuie, it will take years to clean that mess out entirely.

186 is a state of mind now when it gets really hard on the field...Does the player go or hold back?

Neeld has a very large job to turn it around...make no mistake

We agree on more things than we realize I think, but 186 is not a cause, it's an effect. It was caused by poor culture etc, not the other way around. I don't underestimate how horrible it was, I'm just not as obsessed by it as you.

You're spot on though that Neeld has a huge job ahead of him, which he's already started steadily hammering away at. I think late last year and so far this year we've shown we won't just roll over though, even if we lose it for a period of time (ie vs St Kilda).

We agree on more things than we realize I think, but 186 is not a cause, it's an effect. It was caused by poor culture etc, not the other way around. I don't underestimate how horrible it was, I'm just not as obsessed by it as you.

You're spot on though that Neeld has a huge job ahead of him, which he's already started steadily hammering away at. I think late last year and so far this year we've shown we won't just roll over though, even if we lose it for a period of time (ie vs St Kilda).

The Change has started but no other club would let that happen on the oval for 4 points, i am not obsessed by it..i just see it for what it is..

i do worry that until EVERY single player who represented the jumper that day is gone from our list, the lingering effects of 186 will not be totally eradicated.

This years Free Agency will help once again....

The Change has started but no other club would let that happen on the oval for 4 points, i am not obsessed by it..i just see it for what it is..

i do worry that until EVERY single player who represented the jumper that day is gone from our list, the lingering effects of 186 will not be totally eradicated.

This years Free Agency will help once again....

Do you reckon we'll have as big a turnover as we just had? Or do you think it'll depend on the season? My first thought would be we wouldn't see anywhere near as big a change to the list as it would possibly imply Neeld wasn't getting anywhere. At some stage he needs to be able to develop and change what we have.

The Change has started but no other club would let that happen on the oval for 4 points, i am not obsessed by it..i just see it for what it is..

i do worry that until EVERY single player who represented the jumper that day is gone from our list, the lingering effects of 186 will not be totally eradicated.

This years Free Agency will help once again....

I primarily agree with most of what you say WYL but that's just ridiculous. We had alot of young players playing that day and 'leaders' of the club let them down. But getting rid of 22 is just stupid. It would've hurt them far more than us, they were the joke for the rest of the year, and it still gets brought up. I'd like to think the players drive a system where they'll never let their teammates feel like they/we did that afternoon because it was the darkest in our 155 year history.

I primarily agree with most of what you say WYL but that's just ridiculous. We had alot of young players playing that day and 'leaders' of the club let them down. But getting rid of 22 is just stupid. It would've hurt them far more than us, they were the joke for the rest of the year, and it still gets brought up. I'd like to think the players drive a system where they'll never let their teammates feel like they/we did that afternoon because it was the darkest in our 155 year history.

Yes it was the darkest day, that is why anybody involved could be a weak link....Yes it was leader driven..but it is still part of 22 players...

I don't feel as much sympathy for the players on that day as you do, they got paid for that game, but shouldn't have..

Like i said, Neeld has a very big job.

I was fairly impressed with last saturday..late in the game stinking hot the team was still going in hard...

Neeld told the supporters to Bunker Down...he is right.

He has never mentioned 186 to us, but i bet it was top of the pile discussion in house.

Neeld told the supporters to Bunker Down...he is right.

He has never mentioned 186 to us, but i bet it was top of the pile discussion in house.

I VERY much doubt that WYL. Why would he bother with past stuff? He made it known it was a "clean slate" when he came in. 186 had nothing to do with him.

geez it was just one game of footy, get over it. It has absolutely no bearing on anything. Can we have one day here without someone mentioning it please.

I VERY much doubt that WYL. Why would he bother with past stuff? He made it known it was a "clean slate" when he came in. 186 had nothing to do with him.

if i was the new incoming coach it would be the first thing i would speak about.

It happened. And the list he inherited were the culprits. Scars take a long time to heal.

if i was the new incoming coach it would be the first thing i would speak about.

It happened. And the list he inherited were the culprits. Scars take a long time to heal.

As I said mate, I VERY much doubt it...

"Melbourne coach Mark Neeld bans any talk of 186..."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/melbourne-coach-mark-neeld-bans-any-talk-of-the-demons-crushing-186-point-loss-to-geelong/story-e6frf9jf-1226343832143

"To be honest, it hasn't been talked about at all," co-captain Jack Grimes said.

"The only thing they (coaches) said was it wasn't going to be talked about. Neeldy himself made that pretty clear.

As I said mate, I VERY much doubt it...

"Melbourne coach Mark Neeld bans any talk of 186..."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/melbourne-coach-mark-neeld-bans-any-talk-of-the-demons-crushing-186-point-loss-to-geelong/story-e6frf9jf-1226343832143

that was dated 10 months after the event Stuie.

I am sure it was discussed at length before then.

that was dated 10 months after the event Stuie.

I am sure it was discussed at length before then.

"To be honest, it hasn't been talked about at all," co-captain Jack Grimes said.

"The only thing they (coaches) said was it wasn't going to be talked about. Neeldy himself made that pretty clear.

"To be honest, it hasn't been talked about at all," co-captain Jack Grimes said.

"The only thing they (coaches) said was it wasn't going to be talked about. Neeldy himself made that pretty clear.

FFS you just don't give up do you.

I don't always believe the media press release probably because i have worked in it for 26 years.

What was discussed when Neeld first arrived we will never know.

But you can believe what you like.

FFS you just don't give up do you.

I don't always believe the media press release probably because i have worked in it for 26 years.

What was discussed when Neeld first arrived we will never know.

But you can believe what you like.

No. We do know. Our captain, at a time where it wouldn't matter what the answer was, told us it wasn't spoken of, and frankly I'm not surprised at all Neeld took that approach.

To ignore the facts only enhances your conspiracy theorist rep.

No. We do know. Our captain, at a time where it wouldn't matter what the answer was, told us it wasn't spoken of, and frankly I'm not surprised at all Neeld took that approach.

To ignore the facts only enhances your conspiracy theorist rep.

As i said Stuie, believe what you like.

It's not a conspiracy theory at all. Its about getting rid of all the weak links.

I don't think all of them are gone yet.

As i said Stuie, believe what you like.

It's not a conspiracy theory at all. Its about getting rid of all the weak links.

I don't think all of them are gone yet.

Out of those still with us, who would you get rid of that played that day?

As i said Stuie, believe what you like.

It's not a conspiracy theory at all. Its about getting rid of all the weak links.

I don't think all of them are gone yet.

Here's a list of players who played that day and are still with us:

McKenzie, Jones, Watts, Frawley, Trengove, Nicholson, Sylvia, Dunn, Strauss, Tapscott, Howe, Jamar, Garland.

You may be able to make a case to get rid of Sylvia if he has another ordinary year, but can't see any of the others going anywhere anytime soon.