To repeat:

Watts' MFC rankings (ave per game):

Interceptions: 1st

Contested marks: 4th

Contested possessions: 6th

1%: 7th

You are extrapolating from body language to say that he doesn't do any hard work in matches. The one area that he is sorely lacking in is his tackle count. If he can improve in this area, while continuing in his development in other areas, then he will have a very successful 2013.

I don't care about Jack's body language; I care about his output.

And I'm not sure that intercept possessions are 'easy' to get (though I'm not sure that any possessions are easy to get in the AFL; I've never played at that level).

He didn't come top 15 in the B&F. Yes, he missed 7 games, but if he was that good he wouldn't have been dropped to Casey and he wouldn't be playing in the back-line.

Next year he plays as a 22 year old, he was drafted at pick 1 as a key forward, he's 196cms, we're in desperate need for a key forward to help Clark, yet Watts will be manning up midgets on a half-back flank. Yet you seem happy with his "output" ?

Some of you so want Watts to be a success it clouds your judgment. He was a terrible choice at pick one and has a mile to go before he could even dream about being able to play in the red hot cauldron of a final.

The new combative training the club is implementing for this preseason can't come quickly enough for Watts.

Edited October 3, 201212 yr by Ben-Hur

He didn't come top 15 in the B&F. Yes, he missed 7 games, but if he was that good he wouldn't have been dropped to Casey and he wouldn't be playing in the back-line.

Next year he plays as a 22 year old, he was drafted at pick 1 as a key forward, he's 196cms, we're in desperate need for a key forward to help Clark, yet Watts will be manning up midgets on a half-back flank. Yet you seem happy with his "output" ?

Some of you so want Watts to be a success it clouds your judgment. He was a terrible choice at pick one and has a mile to go before he could even dream about being able to play in the red hot cauldron of a final.

The new combative training the club is implementing for this preseason can't come quickly enough for Watts.

What is this new combative training the club is implementing? We are going to transfer to the Paintball League or Cage fighting this year are we?

Jack Watts was drafted as a 17 year old player, what? you wanted him to be taking contested marks against men in his first year

What midgets?

Jack Watts will be a very good player, he may even be a great player.......from this year on and after a full pre season, he has at least another ten years....I have faith

Jack Watts will be AA by the time he turns 25 and after that will be considered by pundits to be one of the best players in the competition. That's another 3 years away. In the mean time he will steadily improve and his value as the number 1 pick will be questioned less and less. Neeld has come just at the right time for Watts.

He was a great pick at number 1 and he'll prove it to be the case. If i'm still posting in 2016 i'm going to love bumping the various Watts post, including this one.

I wish there was a "goes hard at the contest" stat, that one would be pretty damning for Watts.

What is this new combative training the club is implementing? We are going to transfer to the Paintball League or Cage fighting this year are we?

Jack Watts was drafted as a 17 year old player, what? you wanted him to be taking contested marks against men in his first year

What midgets?

Jack Watts will be a very good player, he may even be a great player.......from this year on and after a full pre season, he has at least another ten years....I have faith

"What is this new combative training the club is implementing? We are going to transfer to the Paintball League or Cage fighting this year are we?"

One of the innovations we will see is the introduction of combative training designed to harden players in mind and body.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/31730-melbourne-business-community-function-11012/

Do you read much on here ?

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"Jack Watts was drafted as a 17 year old player, what? you wanted him to be taking contested marks against men in his first year"

Firstly, Watts debuted as an 18 year old, so he never played against men as a 17 year old. Secondly, clearly I'm referring to the 21 year old version. Buddy Franklin, Lockett kicked 100 goals at 21. Lloyd kicked 87. How good do you think Nick Riewoldt was at 21 ? Jack Riewoldt kicked 78 goals at 21. Carey was a star of the game at 21. Are you new to footy, or just want to keep Watts in cotton wool forever ?

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"What midgets?"

What ? You haven't seen him man up stiffy Johncock and even Sunny Walters near the end of the year ? It was embarrassing.

Watts may become very good, but he certainly won't be great. And unless he develops courage in the air he won't even become very good.

"What midgets?"

What ? You haven't seen him man up stiffy Johncock and even Sunny Walters near the end of the year ? It was embarrassing.

You don't think he was playing on these guys because no one else could match them for pace/agility?

What was embarrasing was watching Sinclair rough him up before the bounce on the QB game.

That was when Neeld was trying him out as a midfielder.

Last roll of the dice;stick him on a back flank and let him do some kick ins.

Bailey should have tried that in 2011 and Jack would be one season advanced on his undoubted potential by now

(I figure if this is a whack Jack thread then I may as well kick Bails a few times as well)

"What is this new combative training the club is implementing? We are going to transfer to the Paintball League or Cage fighting this year are we?"

One of the innovations we will see is the introduction of combative training designed to harden players in mind and body.

http://demonland.com...function-11012/

Do you read much on here ?

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"Jack Watts was drafted as a 17 year old player, what? you wanted him to be taking contested marks against men in his first year"

Firstly, Watts debuted as an 18 year old, so he never played against men as a 17 year old. Secondly, clearly I'm referring to the 21 year old version. Buddy Franklin, Lockett kicked 100 goals at 21. Lloyd kicked 87. How good do you think Nick Riewoldt was at 21 ? Jack Riewoldt kicked 78 goals at 21. Carey was a star of the game at 21. Are you new to footy, or just want to keep Watts in cotton wool forever ?

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"What midgets?"

What ? You haven't seen him man up stiffy Johncock and even Sunny Walters near the end of the year ? It was embarrassing.

Watts may become very good, but he certainly won't be great. And unless he develops courage in the air he won't even become very good.

Oh comparisons, sorry Courtney Johns, Scott Gumbleton etc etc

No new to footy, been watching and understanding it for about 35 years now, not swayed in my opinions by anybody

In between laughing out loud, I try and read some of the posts, combative training, erm boxing?....thought we had always done that, maybe we are going with jujitsu......I have attended quite a few training sessions and they have been doing this 'combative work' since Neeld took over, just reinforcing...... it was at a function, what were they going to say....."we are just going to toss the ball around for an hour"..... besides AFL last time I looked was a contact sport, you need to be combative

I assume Jack wasn't embarassed standing next to Johncock, that was the job he was given, as another poster said I want to see him to be able to stand anybody........the game is changing

I actually like the posters on here who always resort to denigration when their point is not agreed to, feel free to give it your best in the reply

Edited October 3, 201212 yr by satyricon

Oh comparisons, sorry Courtney Johns, Scott Gumbleton etc etc

Are you trying to make my point for me ?

Watts is still the conundrum

He certainly has the skills displayed with almost laconic style.

He is certainly deemed soft even despite his contested possession count.

He does take marks and often contested but reads the play and avoids many contests.

He does tackle but seems better employed receiving and delivering than being taken out of the play by tackling someone who gives off the ball.

Perhaps he could crash packs and take out a couple of players but he then might just injure himself and be out for the majority of the season.

I wish I could see a photo of him with muscle definition like Jones but while his body is developing and growing I will be content that the coach is getting the output required.

It may be that Watts could model himself on Riewaldt (same physicality) rather than Buddy but both of these players also have their limitations and flaws.

So I guess we just watch his progress and hope he forms part of the next Demon premiership side. Oh he may be Tom Hawkins or Adam Goodes but even if he is Brent Croswell as long as he wears that medal for Melbourne I will be happy.

Watts is still the conundrum

He certainly has the skills displayed with almost laconic style.

He is certainly deemed soft even despite his contested possession count.

He does take marks and often contested but reads the play and avoids many contests.

He does tackle but seems better employed receiving and delivering than being taken out of the play by tackling someone who gives off the ball.

Perhaps he could crash packs and take out a couple of players but he then might just injure himself and be out for the majority of the season.

I wish I could see a photo of him with muscle definition like Jones but while his body is developing and growing I will be content that the coach is getting the output required.

It may be that Watts could model himself on Riewaldt (same physicality) rather than Buddy but both of these players also have their limitations and flaws.

So I guess we just watch his progress and hope he forms part of the next Demon premiership side. Oh he may be Tom Hawkins or Adam Goodes but even if he is Brent Croswell as long as he wears that medal for Melbourne I will be happy.

I'm not quite sure of your point here. Perhaps I've misinterpreted what you've written but if you think somehow that Brent Croswell was an ordinary payer, think again. He was an absolute star and won four premierships (two each with Carlton and North Melbourne).

He didn't come top 15 in the B&F. Yes, he missed 7 games, but if he was that good he wouldn't have been dropped to Casey and he wouldn't be playing in the back-line.

Next year he plays as a 22 year old, he was drafted at pick 1 as a key forward, he's 196cms, we're in desperate need for a key forward to help Clark, yet Watts will be manning up midgets on a half-back flank. Yet you seem happy with his "output" ?

Some of you so want Watts to be a success it clouds your judgment. He was a terrible choice at pick one and has a mile to go before he could even dream about being able to play in the red hot cauldron of a final.

The new combative training the club is implementing for this preseason can't come quickly enough for Watts.

JW didn't choose where he was drafted or what he was 'drafted as'. In fact, in the last junior game that I saw him play, he was playing half back. In any case, this is a thread about his performance this year (so we can leave the drafting debate for 'Watts vs Naitanui').

We are in need of forwards but there are many holes to fill in our team. If JW doesn't play in the forward line, that does not automatically make him a bad player. It's up to Neeld to decide where to play him, both in the interests of getting the most out of JW and the most out of the whole team.

He was dropped this year but he is hardly the first player in league history to go back to the twos. For decades, players have been told to play in the twos in order to work on some specific parts of their game. Just ask Norm Smith.

The key thing is how he responded. Did he come back a better player? For me, clearly the answer is yes. He was playing very well until the injury set back.

JW has improved each year that he has been on our list. Isn't that what we want from all of our players? If he continues to improve, he will be a very good player. How good? Time will tell.

"What midgets?"

What ? You haven't seen him man up stiffy Johncock and even Sunny Walters near the end of the year ? It was embarrassing.

Did you ever see Dustin Fletcher stand next to Phil Matera? Was that embarrassing? Amusing, yes, but embarrassing, no. What's height got to do with it? It's simply a question of the right man for the job.

Did you ever see Dustin Fletcher stand next to Phil Matera? Was that embarrassing? Amusing, yes, but embarrassing, no. What's height got to do with it? It's simply a question of the right man for the job.

Except for the fact that he spent his first 10 years playing on the Lockett's of this world.

Watts is a tall Bryce Gibbs. And yes, we'll now play him where he is highest and best use, which is the role Neeld currently has him playing, but when I see these glowing reports of his year it makes me want to puke. Because I can only assume that supporters are happy with where he's at.

BH, I understand your arguments, but I really think they belong in a "How bad were our recruiters?" thread, and shouldn't dominate every discussion about the development of the kid.

He has a long way to go before being one of the best players in the comp, that's a given.

I don't think we need to talk down the things he does well, obsess over his flaws and compare him to Buddy or Lockett.

I don't think we need to obsess over his flaws and compare him to Buddy or Lockett.

I don't obsess, I observe and make commentary.

You certainly don't have to.

Except for the fact that he spent his first 10 years playing on the Lockett's of this world.

Watts is a tall Bryce Gibbs. And yes, we'll now play him where he is highest and best use, which is the role Neeld currently has him playing, but when I see these glowing reports of his year it makes me want to puke. Because I can only assume that supporters are happy with where he's at.

I'm looking forward to seeing JW play next year as a 22yo.

What would you like to see him from him next year?

I don't obsess, I observe and make commentary.

You certainly don't have to.

Fair enough.

But do you see my point that it is less relevant to the Watts discussion than the recruitment discussion?

Watts did nothing himself to deserve a comparison to Franklin or Lockett, and I think it is terribly unfair to the kid at this stage.

I'm looking forward to seeing JW play next year as a 22yo.

What would you like to see him from him next year?

Courage in the air. Contesting marks that he now presently avoids.

If he's able to do that his confidence will grow and he'll have the potential to become a bloody good player.

Watts is too player conscious in a contest.

Needs to focus his eyes more on the footy. You only need to watch his head on his approach to the footy where it is likely to be a contest.

Needs to get the balance between player awareness and attack on the ball right. Hopefully will do that as the confidence in his body increases.

I'm not quite sure of your point here. Perhaps I've misinterpreted what you've written but if you think somehow that Brent Croswell was an ordinary payer, think again. He was an absolute star and won four premierships (two each with Carlton and North Melbourne).

Sorry

That was my point but perhaps inelegantly put.

Brent was also a conundrum slighlty built but solid muscle. Had the same laconic style at times and brilliant.

I enjoyed watching him and enjoyed watching the despair he caused Barassi and supporters at times.

So EVEN if Watts only becomes Crosswell and not a Brownlow medal team of century gut busting power forward I would be more than happy. He continues to develop and shows some sublime moments. Hope he can play in some premiership sides with us.

Watts is too player conscious in a contest.

Needs to focus his eyes more on the footy. You only need to watch his head on his approach to the footy where it is likely to be a contest.

Needs to get the balance between player awareness and attack on the ball right. Hopefully will do that as the confidence in his body increases.

I've noticed this too, but for some reason, it doesn't happen at every contest. I think that it is a combination of spacial awareness and confidence.

His contested marking is actually very good. He averages 1.3 per game. It doesn't sound like much, but it would place him 3rd at Hawthorn and 4th at Sydney. Ted Richards averages 1.4.

I think that he can develop this into a strength. If he can develop his confidence and spacial awareness, he could take this average above 2 per game, which would put him into the elite category.

The tackling is the area that I want him to improve.

Presently, he averages 18.5 possessions, 1.5 tackles and 1.3 contested marks.

In the future, If he can average 20, 3 and 2, then we will have a very good player. If he averages 25, 4 and 2.5, we will have an elite player.