SYLVIA 2011.........5th in general kicks MOLONEY 2011....... 1st in kicks

5th in Handballs 2nd in handballs

5th in handball receives 2nd in handballs received

2nd in tackles 1st in tackles

2nd in Hard ball gets 1st in inside 50's

4th in Loose ball gets 1st in hardball gets

3rd in Goalkickers 1st in loose ball gets

2nd (Melb player) in Brownlow votes 1st(melb player) in Blownlow vote

Get off their backs

Good post .But stating facts on here and trying to persuade people to stop slagging our best performers are two different things .

That's meaningless emotive guff - he simply is not good enough and we should cash in on him whilst he still has some perceived value, before other teams catch on.

Our culture is poor BECAUSE of these guys.

And because supporters like you place a false economy on the dross they have served up to date.

Beamer came equal 8th in the brownlow Equal with Mark Murphy(Carl) Perhaps the umpires thought he was simply not good enough. Just a rubbish post.

Beamer came equal 8th in the brownlow Equal with Mark Murphy(Carl) Perhaps the umpires thought he was simply not good enough. Just a rubbish post.

I don't really put too much weight on what the umpires think - the brownlow votes are the last thing they worry about, and last year Beamer did the things that stand out to umpires.

He's not even doing that this year.

But I simply don't rate his efforts last year - all he did was bullock his way to clearances and little else.

Now that the game has changed a little, he is largely ineffective.

Footy is about a lot more than that.

Sylvia is inconsistent and our most talented footy player.

Moloney is our best player and even when he had a stellar year - was averaging 10 possies less in losses than to wins.

We need more from them and we are not getting it.

Senior players determine your fate.

We are frustrated, although some are going a little over the top - they are not, even remotely, doing what they should be and that is that.

Sylvia is inconsistent and our most talented footy player.

Moloney is our best player and even when he had a stellar year - was averaging 10 possies less in losses than to wins.

We need more from them and we are not getting it.

Senior players determine your fate.

We are frustrated, although some are going a little over the top - they are not, even remotely, doing what they should be and that is that.

My mind has been firmly made up on these 2.

It's time to go.

My mind has been firmly made up on these 2.

It's time to go.

And where are we going to find 130 games players to replace them????

And where are we going to find 130 games players to replace them????

Trade.

130 game players are great - if they provide you with something close to what you need.

These 2 don't come close.

I'd be happy to lose Moloney to free agency for compensation.

Sylvia I think we'd get a fair return for in trade.

My mind has been firmly made up on these 2.

It's time to go.

Well, I decided during 2011 to move past them, but 'time to go'?

I would keep them; I don't see a great deal of value (maybe Sylvia) and I just want to have them play roles that ease the pressure on the next gen coming through.

At the moment they seem incapable of that but if their heads can get right - they are mature bodies that I can see use for.

Well, I decided during 2011 to move past them, but 'time to go'?

I would keep them; I don't see a great deal of value (maybe Sylvia) and I just want to have them play roles that ease the pressure on the next gen coming through.

At the moment they seem incapable of that but if their heads can get right - they are mature bodies that I can see use for.

I'm not convinced Moloney will, and Sylvia I think we can get a decent return for.

I understand what you say about needing mature bodies, and that is what I'd hope to get in return, but mature bodies that better suit our needs.

Sylvia is inconsistent and our most talented footy player.

Moloney is our best player and even when he had a stellar year - was averaging 10 possies less in losses than to wins.

We need more from them and we are not getting it.

Senior players determine your fate.

We are frustrated, although some are going a little over the top - they are not, even remotely, doing what they should be and that is that.

Would agree.

Suspect Sylvia is struggling from a late start following a very serious injury. He is the one line breaker we have.

Watching Maloney, can't help but feel one of his issues is that he is one-paced - limited ability to step up a cog, makes him easier for the opposition to tag, and makes it harder for him to chase.

Would agree.

Suspect Sylvia is struggling from a late start following a very serious injury. He is the one line breaker we have.

Watching Maloney, can't help but feel one of his issues is that he is one-paced - limited ability to step up a cog, makes him easier for the opposition to tag, and makes it harder for him to chase.

Rubbish.

How true is your comment about ego's?

We are a bottom club. Anyone who does not listen needs a long stint at Casey.

All the information I have is what we all see. It's whether we join the dots. Every time he makes an error or doesn't chase enough, Moloney is pointing at everyone else and yelling at them. That to me says that he cannot handle responsibility for his own errors. He's never in the wrong. Some would classify that as an egomanic response.

Meanwhile, it's clear Sylvia has the talent, but doesn't have the brain for it. For Sylvia it's more about himself than the team.

Rubbish.

It's a pity that you don't give the same respect to these two that you to give Watts

Soooo much hate for our reigning BnF and high brownlow vote getter, who is battling pretty much a lone battle in the worst performing midfield in the AFL, gives 100% every week (and there's not many we can say that about so far), and generally leading stats getter (evidence above in Boss' post), and we wonder why our culture is so bad....

Name one game that Moloney has dominated for the MFC against good opposition. I go every week and cannot think of a single occasion. It's always against weaker sides or interstate sides in Melbourne.

As people are rightly noting in this thread - when the chips are down, he goes missing and even when playing his best footy, doesn't run the other way.

Beamer came equal 8th in the brownlow Equal with Mark Murphy(Carl) Perhaps the umpires thought he was simply not good enough. Just a rubbish post.

He blew all the interstate teams away in Melbourne. That's why he polled so highly. He got three votes in pretty much all of those games. We didn't hear a peep out of him against decent opposition though.

All the information I have is what we all see. It's whether we join the dots. Every time he makes an error or doesn't chase enough, Moloney is pointing at everyone else and yelling at them. That to me says that he cannot handle responsibility for his own errors. He's never in the wrong. Some would classify that as an egomanic response.

Meanwhile, it's clear Sylvia has the talent, but doesn't have the brain for it. For Sylvia it's more about himself than the team.

Totally agree Adam. After 7-8 seasons we know what we have. Both are not going to change.

When Moloney gets beaten, does he adjust his game during the week?

No he just keeps yelling and pointing the finger at others. Opposition mids have him all worked out.

My mind has been firmly made up on these 2.

It's time to go.

Agreed. It's not a knee jerk reaction for me. It's a case of watching these two consistently serve up predictable seasons for too long. Trade Moloney while he has any currency, otherwise he'll be another Brock McLean. Good example actually. MFC supporters seemed to love him for some bizarre reason. Slow, ordinary disposal and when the chips were down rarely had the ability or desire to impact the contest.

Would agree.

Suspect Sylvia is struggling from a late start following a very serious injury. He is the one line breaker we have.

Watching Maloney, can't help but feel one of his issues is that he is one-paced - limited ability to step up a cog, makes him easier for the opposition to tag, and makes it harder for him to chase.

I think it's mentality more than anything. Moloney is lazy and as a result unaccountable. He along with others are systematic or our laziness and every week it puts our defence under unwarranted pressure, because opposition midfielders are running freely.

Name one game that Moloney has dominated for the MFC against good opposition. I go every week and cannot think of a single occasion. It's always against weaker sides or interstate sides in Melbourne.

As people are rightly noting in this thread - when the chips are down, he goes missing and even when playing his best footy, doesn't run the other way.

It's funny really how people's perceptions are based all in the last 12 months

Sure, Brent dominated weaker teams last year and was GENERALLY poor against the better teams LAST YEAR

However, in previous years, Brent has been one of our better performer in losses against good teams

Brent had a very good 2009 and 2010 and we had plenty of losses those years

(oh and if you want an example, QB vs Collingwood in 2010 (eventual premiers) Brent had about 35 - 40 touches)

I'd be happy to lose Moloney to free agency for compensation.

Seriously mate, stop talking.

Getting really sick of you constantly rubbishing Moloney, you've given your opinion, move on.

Where's the mods who continually give out warnings about Morton or Watts bashing?

Seriously mate, stop talking.

Getting really sick of you constantly rubbishing Moloney, you've given your opinion, move on.

Where's the mods who continually give out warnings about Morton or Watts bashing?

I agree with the above posts. Moloney continues to under achieve when he is really needed. He will not improve, it is what it is.

His best just aint good enough. Let us not forget that presently the MFC sits 17th. sandwiched between the 2 new "add water" clubs. It is totally unnacceptable after 6 rounds. Huge clean out is still needed at years end.

No he just keeps yelling and pointing the finger at others. Opposition mids have him all worked out.

Yelling and pointing the finger at others is marshalling the troops IMO.

It's funny really how people's perceptions are based all in the last 12 months

Sure, Brent dominated weaker teams last year and was GENERALLY poor against the better teams LAST YEAR

However, in previous years, Brent has been one of our better performer in losses against good teams

Brent had a very good 2009 and 2010 and we had plenty of losses those years

(oh and if you want an example, QB vs Collingwood in 2010 (eventual premiers) Brent had about 35 - 40 touches)

Your post was generally supportive of Brent but you are killing him kindly with compliments:

- 12 months of exposed form isn't long enough to form judgements? It's a long time.

- "GENERALLY poor against the better teams LAST YEAR" used in support of Brent...

- Going back to the 2010 QB game and the years 2010 and 2009 for evidence of consistent performance...

I agree that he can give more, that is why he gets so much attention and criticism. It would be worse if we weren't talking about him.

The way that we have a seeming indifference to the disappearance of the pre-2011 Brad Green - and how very few expect more from him.

I agree with the above posts. Moloney continues to under achieve when he is really needed. He will not improve, it is what it is.

His best just aint good enough. Let us not forget that presently the MFC sits 17th. sandwiched between the 2 new "add water" clubs. It is totally unnacceptable after 6 rounds. Huge clean out is still needed at years end.

Really think that's enough Moloney bagging guys. Now you're blaming him for our ladder position? This is just getting stupider and stupider.

Really think that's enough Moloney bagging guys. Now you're blaming him for our ladder position? This is just getting stupider and stupider.

Get your head out of the sand Stuie...he aint that good.