Recruiting or Development.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Goddard?

One leader type won't be enough. we need more than one at the same time to help shift the power balance.

I expect a cleanout 'Blight' like, to shift the sour gripes out, & allow the fresh faced hard workers to set new standards.

A old hand may help here with a Heath Scotland or similar hard working high intensity type. Doesn't have to be a matchwinner off his own boot, just help show the right way.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yes if your talking A grade or even A-, he has to do it continually, & be a self starter even when the side is struggling.
I've always had hope for him making it, but a couple of good games doesn't make an A grade career. Continuity at a high level is what cuts it, & the ability to become a driver when others are low.

What I'm saying here, is that I always thought he had big upside, but seemed to be wasting away.

He has finally seen the light last year. a lesson to not give up on young talent that has the potential to be dominant. He took it with both hands.
BUT, the school is still out IMO, and when the cats start to slip, thats when his real worth will show thru. Is he a leader or a sheep? Edited April 9, 2014 by dee-luded

[Hells Gates 505]

One leader type won't be enough. we need more than one at the same time to help shift the power balance.

I expect a cleanout 'Blight' like, to shift the sour gripes out, & allow the fresh faced hard workers to set new standards.

A old hand may help here with a Heath Scotland or similar hard working high intensity type. Doesn't have to be a matchwinner off his own boot, just help show the right way.

Yeah thats it, one wont be enough for the shite we are in. Just goes to show how far behind we are. Judd turned around Carlton by himself, we need a few more. A clean out is definetley needed to a serious extent. It sends alarm bells when you get fresh faces to the club trying their guts out like McDonald, Tynan, Magner, Clark & Davis... Shame on the rest of them bar Jones at this stage.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

One of the most damning things is how players like Bate, Dunn, Sylvia and to a lesser extent Mclean have failed to develop after coming in during our last few years in finals 04-06 and looked very promising.

They havnt developed like we wanted, expected, like the really should have, and now we lack the senior players that would be leading the club atm........

[Hells Gates 505]

One of the most damning things is how players like Bate, Dunn, Sylvia and to a lesser extent Mclean have failed to develop after coming in during our last few years in finals 04-06 and looked very promising.

They havnt developed like we wanted, expected, like the really should have, and now we lack the senior players that would be leading the club atm........

Where to from here then Jordie?

Who do we go after/recruit or what do we do?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yeah thats it, one wont be enough for the shite we are in. Just goes to show how far behind we are. Judd turned around Carlton by himself, we need a few more. A clean out is definetley needed to a serious extent. It sends alarm bells when you get fresh faces to the club trying their guts out like McDonald, Tynan, Magner, Clark & Davis... Shame on the rest of them bar Jones at this stage.

Remember they were a basket case prior to Pagan & he did tough yards instilling some hardwork & fight into them, & started the recruitment rebuild with young.

Then they got Judd to help show the direction, they finished with Pagan & took on Ratten halfway thru the build.

They picked up top draft picks in Kreuzer (we let them shaft us that year), Murphy, Gibbs... and others in following drafts.

They are now nearing fruition, but looking at the downslope of Judd, but the improvement of the young brigade.

It's not easy to get a Judd type or a Pratt/Visy sort of backing.

I don't see many A Grade drivers out there looking to change clubs right now. Goddard isn't to that level of Judd.

IMO we have to keep going thru the draft picking th4 best we can with an emphasis on tough rugged be the best types.

We've already stockpiled the finish types but have been caught out by the return to AFL, of the contested ball game type. The game style keeps shifting quicker than ever but the winning the ball is always a priority.

[Scoop Junior 3,435]

I have a theory that I have thrown around a little of late...

The MFC Youth False Economy ©

The false economy surrounds the fact that our young players don't have the aide of productive, committed senior players that other clubs have. This lack of protection means that the young players of the MFC have to do more than other kids do, and when they fail - as the other kids would in the same predicament, it looks as though the young players at the MFC are not as good as the youth at other teams.

Yeah I think that's an excellent point. I think it was Hutchy last night who had a go at the Suns' youngsters, but they are simply being overwhelmed playing in a very inexperienced team that is getting belted each week. Put some of their youngsters in the Geelong or Hawthorn side at the moment and they are going to look like far better footballers.

There's no doubt that young kids look better in better teams with experienced gun senior players around them. I have been very impressed with some of Geelong's younger blokes but they would find it much harder playing for GC or GWS at the moment.

We are not as inexperienced as those two but in terms of experienced gun senior players we are probably as far off as anyone at the moment.

[dee-luded 2,959]

One of the most damning things is how players like Bate, Dunn, Sylvia and to a lesser extent Mclean have failed to develop after coming in during our last few years in finals 04-06 and looked very promising.

They havnt developed like we wanted, expected, like the really should have, and now we lack the senior players that would be leading the club atm........

Most of that IMO was the poor culture. Our leaders were all receivers. None were apart from Junior, into the hard stuff. Everyone wanted to be the finisher. No one wanted to be the 1st gear or 2nd gear driver. the ones who start to get the thing rolling.

We have many 3rd & 4th gear types, who's gonna put their head over the thing?

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

I hope Fitzy and Cook come through

[Hells Gates 505]

Remember they were a basket case prior to Pagan & he did tough yards instilling some hardwork & fight into them, & started the recruitment rebuild with young.

Then they got Judd to help show the direction, they finished with Pagan & took on Ratten halfway thru the build.

They picked up top draft picks in Kreuzer (we let them shaft us that year), Murphy, Gibbs... and others in following drafts.

They are now nearing fruition, but looking at the downslope of Judd, but the improvement of the young brigade.

It's not easy to get a Judd type or a Pratt/Visy sort of backing.

I don't see many A Grade drivers out there looking to change clubs right now. Goddard isn't to that level of Judd.

IMO we have to keep going thru the draft picking th4 best we can with an emphasis on tough rugged be the best types.

We've already stockpiled the finish types but have been caught out by the return to AFL, of the contested ball game type. The game style keeps shifting quicker than ever but the winning the ball is always a priority.

But are our players as good as some suggest??

To their credit injuries have killed their development more than anything. When you think of Blease, Gysberts, Tapscott, Bail, Grimes, Fitzpatrick, Cook, Morton, Strauss, Gawn and probably more that Ive forgotten then they have had so many set backs from their injuries that it has hurt them more than the senior player excuse I think.

When we start getting them fit and getting consistent AFL games into them they will develop faster, its hard to do that when they are hardly on the park. For some reason the senior player thing doesnt sit well with me as I think its another excuse, it was never a thought in my day, but probably more relevant now - I wouldnt know as Im not running around anymore. There are plenty of role models in the AFL for them to learn off, its just a matter if they want to put in the extra hard yards to succeed.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,593]

Doesnt Fitzy have Chronic Fatigue or something ?

[Guest Jose Murinho]

Well thats apparently not what the Andrews Report indicated.

When is the next Whiteboard Wednesday anyway? I missed those.

According to whom?

You can't back that up, it's pure speculation.

If anything, I think the Andrews report would have recommended wholesale changes to the football dept. whilst the playing group were (incorrectly) in support of Bailey staying and Schwab going.

Eventually common sense prevailed and rather than letting the tail wag the dog, the expert advice of the report was heeded.

Remember that the report would have also covered what was in place in clubs setting the standard within the league, and recommended we implement just that.

Clubs like Collingwood, Geelong and WestCoast (who originally set the precedent of having line coaches and line assistants to aid development).

NB. Whiteboard Wednesday was a gimmick for the supporters, a PR exercise to increase supporter buy-in for the rebuild.

WW has served its purpose and fulfilled its potential.

[Hells Gates 505]

According to whom?

You can't back that up, it's pure speculation.

If anything, I think the Andrews report would have recommended wholesale changes to the football dept. whilst the playing group were (incorrectly) in support of Bailey staying and Schwab going.

Eventually common sense prevailed and rather than letting the tail wag the dog, the expert advice of the report was heeded.

Remember that the report would have also covered what was in place in clubs setting the standard within the league, and recommended we implement just that.

Clubs like Collingwood, Geelong and WestCoast (who originally set the precedent of having line coaches and line assistants to aid development).

NB. Whiteboard Wednesday was a gimmick for the supporters, a PR exercise to increase supporter buy-in for the rebuild.

WW has served its purpose and fulfilled its potential.

I would hate to see a Whiteboard Wednesday this year..... I'd imagine there would be a whole heap of circles on that whiteboard!!!

[dee-luded 2,959]

But are our players as good as some suggest??

To their credit injuries have killed their development more than anything. When you think of Blease, Gysberts, Tapscott, Bail, Grimes, Fitzpatrick, Cook, Morton, Strauss, Gawn and probably more that Ive forgotten then they have had so many set backs from their injuries that it has hurt them more than the senior player excuse I think.

When we start getting them fit and getting consistent AFL games into them they will develop faster, its hard to do that when they are hardly on the park. For some reason the senior player thing doesnt sit well with me as I think its another excuse, it was never a thought in my day, but probably more relevant now - I wouldnt know as Im not running around anymore. There are plenty of role models in the AFL for them to learn off, its just a matter if they want to put in the extra hard yards to succeed.

Stalled development doesn't make you lose you athletic or footy IQ. It just puts you back in the mix with the other new recruits.

Injuries just arrest the development & confidence, unless the injury causes a loss of pace or agility. Luke Ball/Brock McClean.

Ours I think are OK. Hope Strauss gets thru alright but I'd go easy with him to ensure the best possible outcome to a Very Serious Injury.

IMO our biggest hurt is were are devoid of Hard at it Types who just want the ball.

But are our players as good as some suggest??

To their credit injuries have killed their development more than anything. When you think of Blease, Gysberts, Tapscott, Bail, Grimes, Fitzpatrick, Cook, Morton, Strauss, Gawn and probably more that Ive forgotten then they have had so many set backs from their injuries that it has hurt them more than the senior player excuse I think.

When we start getting them fit and getting consistent AFL games into them they will develop faster, its hard to do that when they are hardly on the park. For some reason the senior player thing doesnt sit well with me as I think its another excuse, it was never a thought in my day, but probably more relevant now - I wouldnt know as Im not running around anymore. There are plenty of role models in the AFL for them to learn off, its just a matter if they want to put in the extra hard yards to succeed.

Comfidence is a big driver for desire. And desire is a big breeder of learning and improvement.

Coming back with a feeling of some satisfaction, is a driver of Confidence, which starts the cycle again next week.

This is growth.... The Insatiability comes from within it's original carton.

[monoccular 17,413]

I think Gysberts has the tools to be good, just needs a tank imo and we will see some progress

He needs to get fit enough to train before he can get fit enough to play the role we need.

[Hells Gates 505]

Stalled development doesn't make you lose you athletic or footy IQ. It just puts you back in the mix with the other new recruits.

Injuries just arrest the development & confidence, unless the injury causes a loss of pace or agility. Luke Ball/Brock McClean.

Ours I think are OK. Hope Strauss gets thru alright but I'd go easy with him to ensure the best possible outcome to a Very Serious Injury.

IMO our biggest hurt is were are devoid of Hard at it Types who just want the ball.

Comfidence is a big driver for desire. And desire is a big breeder of learning and improvement.

Coming back with a feeling of some satisfaction, is a driver of Confidence, which starts the cycle again next week.

This is growth.... The Insatiability comes from within it's original carton.

Good points Sir. Its hard to see how they get any confidence after the last half of last year and the start of this year.... I thought a fresh start may have made a huge difference - obviously I was wrong.

[Sir Why You Little 36,980]

I would hate to see a Whiteboard Wednesday this year..... I'd imagine there would be a whole heap of circles on that whiteboard!!!

Haha whiteboard wednesday should be on channel 10 this year! Required viewing...

[Hells Gates 505]

Haha whiteboard wednesday should be on channel 10 this year! Required viewing...

Ah dear!!! Ya goota laugh WYL!!! Im refraining from letting it affect me mentally - see how loopy I am by the end of it!!

On a positive note I have just emailed Cam Schwab to do a Whiteboard Wednesday this week for the sake of member sanity - Interesting to see if he does however I'd imagine he will be a busy little boy!

[dee-luded 2,959]

Good points Sir. Its hard to see how they get any confidence after the last half of last year and the start of this year.... I thought a fresh start may have made a huge difference - obviously I was wrong.

NO well we've shuffled the pack on them with a complete change of footy dept' & game style, not to mention player personel.

It's easy enough to lose the defences cohesiveness & confidence thru injuries, let alone So Many big changes at once. They need some time to settle, but the coaches are still sifting thru our list to find those with real desire & guts, & those not ready or past it.

[Hells Gates 505]

NO well we've shuffled the pack on them with a complete change of footy dept' & game style, not to mention player personel.

It's easy enough to lose the defences cohesiveness & confidence thru injuries, let alone So Many big changes at once. They need some time to settle, but the coaches are still sifting thru our list to find those with real desire & guts, & those not ready or past it.

Do you know much about Taggert?? Could he become a quality mid or is he another hopeful longshot?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Where to from here then Jordie?

Who do we go after/recruit or what do we do?

I agree wit ha few sentiments that we should go after a real bonafide star through FA, but there are only an handful of these types, and they would have to be under 26imo to want such a move, you would be giving up a minimum of 2 years of your career in all honesty before you can see the pinnacle.

Who would want such a move? and how much would it cost? my bet is more than what Clark cost, maybe that is obvious

i Think that we just need to go out this season and find the best kids, Viney heading this with zero experience worries me, i love the guy but we will have 3 picks under 12 *roughly at this rate and we dont have a qualified recruiter at the club? 3 mids like this should come on within 3 years..... yeah i know but that is how it is.

Maybe go after Dangerfield if he doesnt cost the world, he is young yes but he is earmarket as a leader at Adelaide and if he want the move home i think he could be close to the type of player we want.

Also it may simply take the players fully buying into Neeld the person and the game plan. Once this happens you will get alot more from the playing group. It ma just be a case of the plan clicking and then confidence will grow.

We are so early in the year, and i have jumped around a bit, it is just hard to explain why we havnt gone anywhere, first under Bailey, more so under Neeld because the players are learning new ideas on the game and plans ect..........

[savoydee 6]

Given the fact that many "experts" out there are now describing our list as poor, not that I necessarily agree, is it the result of poor recruiting, poor development or a combination of both?

Many players seem to kick on quickly at other clubs while many of our high picks seem to stagnate. Again let me say when I give a few examples I am not writing off these players. We took Watts and Hurley who went later is a strongly built star of his club. Like wise Melksham is a developed mid while our higher pick of a couple of years earlier Morton is playing at Casey with the same build and development as when he came to the club. Cook our first pick of 2010 seems a long way off though so many of his year are now regulars. Blease also seems to have gone backwards and I am not sure that Bennell has developed above his natural talent he had when selected.

I know recruiting is not an absolute science but have we failed to get the best at our selections or have we failed to develop our players?.

Something is clearly or has been clearly wrong in the past at the MFC.

Given the fact that many "experts" out there are now describing our list as poor, not that I necessarily agree, is it the result of poor recruiting, poor development or a combination of both?

Many players seem to kick on quickly at other clubs while many of our high picks seem to stagnate. Again let me say when I give a few examples I am not writing off these players. We took Watts and Hurley who went later is a strongly built star of his club. Like wise Melksham is a developed mid while our higher pick of a couple of years earlier Morton is playing at Casey with the same build and development as when he came to the club. Cook our first pick of 2010 seems a long way off though so many of his year are now regulars. Blease also seems to have gone backwards and I am not sure that Bennell has developed above his natural talent he had when selected.

I know recruiting is not an absolute science but have we failed to get the best at our selections or have we failed to develop our players?.

Something is clearly or has been clearly wrong in the past at the MFC.

No doubt Gary Lyon agrees with you- that is thereason for a huge change in the football department re the coaching are and the latest change with Viney taking over recruitment.Hoping he gap will narrow over the next few years.

[Sir Why You Little 36,980]

Ah dear!!! Ya goota laugh WYL!!! Im refraining from letting it affect me mentally - see how loopy I am by the end of it!!

On a positive note I have just emailed Cam Schwab to do a Whiteboard Wednesday this week for the sake of member sanity - Interesting to see if he does however I'd imagine he will be a busy little boy!

yes i suspect Cam's whiteboard is very busy on other issues as we speak. If it isn't it dam well should be. Edited April 10, 2012 by why you little

[Hells Gates 505]

yes i suspect Cam's whiteboard is very busy as we speak on other issues as we speak. If it isn't it dam well should be.

He may well have his whiteboard taken off him in the near future if things dont improve.

[Sir Why You Little 36,980]

He may well have his whiteboard taken off him in the near future if things dont improve.

Yep. I have always been a big supporter of Cam, but he has put himself right on the edge at the moment. He is definately on notice.

There are already 2 divisions in this league, i saw it yesterday. We are very close to being at the bottom of Div 2 without sponsors.

Edited April 10, 2012 by why you little