Hypothetical: Rendell?

[daisycutter 29,604]

Ha ha , the comment is often a throwaway line by recruiters but it probably sums them up quite well . They obviously look at all aspects of a potential draftee's background . That's their job I suppose but it seems unfair to me .

I mean , do they put a line through a player because the "Dad" left the family home ? Or the "Brother" uses drugs ?

What's next ? Selective breeding ? To me , each potential draftee should be judged on whether he can play footy or not . All clubs by now should have measures in place to cater for an individuals needs . Maybe some clubs don't do that very well . Maybe that's the other issue we should be looking at .

Cheers

Macca, I think you might be reading too much into such remarks.

There is often too much over-analysis in drafting, its more about having too many football journalists and so many column inches to fill. B)

I'm sure the no1, no2 and no3 priority is football ability

[Macca 16,936]

It seems we did re Dustin Martin.

Well there ya go hey . I haven't followed the Dustin Martin debate 'dl' but I'll take your word for it .

Cheers

[dee-luded 2,959]

Well there ya go hey . I haven't followed the Dustin Martin debate 'dl' but I'll take your word for it .

Cheers

It's one of my gripes of Us (MFC) in the past, that we had always looked for squeaky clean choir boy types, instead of Men.

I'm somewhat temporarily relieved that were heading towards a 'Contested Footy' brand of Game in the near future.

That gives me some consolation that if Martin was in this draft then we'd look favorably at him. this time round.

#Sorry If I sound aggrieved. I am a bit testy atmo, re Jimma & I lost a best mate late last week (lost contact for 20 years & found him 2 years back with mouth Cancer), funeral last Monday, interstate, which I couldn't attend.... Then Jimma... And my cousins are having a memorial wake next Saturday, interstate from me, for my last Auntie, who past 3 weeks back. I feel like I'm wired Up.

[Macca 16,936]

Macca, I think you might be reading too much into such remarks.

There is often too much over-analysis in drafting, its more about having too many football journalists and so many column inches to fill. B)

I'm sure the no1, no2 and no3 priority is football ability

There lies the problem dc , if we allow comments like "He comes from a good family" to "go through to the keeper" then it stands to reason that we end up with comments like "We might only want to recruit indigenous players with one white parent" .

I see a connection . And I don't like it . It's dangerous ground and it takes us back to a bygone age .

Cheers

[old dee 23,782]

It's one of my gripes of Us (MFC) in the past, that we had always looked for squeaky clean choir boy types, instead of Men.

I'm somewhat temporarily relieved that were heading towards a 'Contested Footy' brand of Game in the near future.

That gives me some consolation that if Martin was in this draft then we'd look favorably at him. this time round.

#Sorry If I sound aggrieved. I am a bit testy atmo, re Jimma & I lost a best mate late last week (lost contact for 20 years & found him 2 years back with mouth Cancer), funeral last Monday, interstate, which I couldn't attend.... Then Jimma... And my cousins are having a memorial wake next Saturday, interstate from me, for my last Auntie, who past 3 weeks back. I feel like I'm wired Up.

Cannot find much to disagree with Dee-luded.

The error we all tend to make is not keeping track of friends etc

Unfortunately we all die at some point.

Hang in there, lots of good things are happening around you, they just might be a little hard to see this week.

Edited March 21, 2012 by old dee

[Macca 16,936]

It's one of my gripes of Us (MFC) in the past, that we had always looked for squeaky clean choir boy types, instead of Men.

I'm somewhat temporarily relieved that were heading towards a 'Contested Footy' brand of Game in the near future.

That gives me some consolation that if Martin was in this draft then we'd look favorably at him. this time round.

#Sorry If I sound aggrieved. I am a bit testy atmo, re Jimma & I lost a best mate late last week (lost contact for 20 years & found him 2 years back with mouth Cancer), funeral last Monday, interstate, which I couldn't attend.... Then Jimma... And my cousins are having a memorial wake next Saturday, interstate from me, for my last Auntie, who past 3 weeks back. I feel like I'm wired Up.

Sorry to hear about all that 'dl' .

Yeah , I think we're all a little bit edgy right now . I don't like the unfairness that is thrown at us sometimes .

Cheers mate

[Rogue 585]

It's one of my gripes of Us (MFC) in the past, that we had always looked for squeaky clean choir boy types, instead of Men.

Brock McLean, Colin Sylvia, Brent Moloney, Byron Pickett, Nathan Carroll...

Sorry to hear about all that 'dl' .

+1

[old dee 23,782]

Sorry to hear about all that 'dl' .

Yeah , I think we're all a little bit edgy right now . I don't like the unfairness that is thrown at us sometimes .

Cheers mate

You know that old saying Macca

Only the good die young

Seems to apply this week.

When you consider all the pricks in the world who live to ripe old age it makes you wonder.

e.g. Robert Mugabe

[daisycutter 29,604]

There lies the problem dc , if we allow comments like "He comes from a good family" to "go through to the keeper" then it stands to reason that we end up with comments like "We might only want to recruit indigenous players with one white parent" .

I see a connection . And I don't like it . It's dangerous ground and it takes us back to a bygone age .

Cheers

Macca I know where you are coming from, but you're in danger of your cynicism turning what was intended as a positive statement into a negative

By that logic we shouldn't have a best and fairest because it implies the others weren't up to it. Shades of Kirnerism

[Macca 16,936]

You know that old saying Macca

Only the good die young

Seems to apply this week.

When you consider all the pricks in the world who live to ripe old age it makes you wonder.

e.g. Robert Mugabe

Yep , we'd go mad trying to figure it all out .

Jim has taught us how to be better people . Just by living his life .

Cheers

[Macca 16,936]

Macca I know where you are coming from, but you're in danger of your cynicism turning what was intended as a positive statement into a negative

By that logic we shouldn't have a best and fairest because it implies the others weren't up to it. Shades of Kirnerism

Well , not sure about the cynicism bit . I can only comment on what I hear .

The jury's out on whether Matt Rendell's comments were positive . Many would see them as negative .

And we arrive back at "interpretation" and "opinion" 'dc' . I'm happy to accept the other side of the argument by the way . Often with these things , there's no changing people's minds . It's like religion and politics . Better to let sleeping dogs lie - after a time .

Cheers

[Guest Dr Who]

Macca, I think you might be reading too much into such remarks.

There is often too much over-analysis in drafting, its more about having too many football journalists and so many column inches to fill. B)

I'm sure the no1, no2 and no3 priority is football ability

All players that get drafted have ability - However, its the "no1, no2 and no3" "issues" that determine whether you think you can develop that ability to reach maximum output. Its ultimately a pick on probabilities ultimately drilled down too pick-cost vs return.

Issues are a raft of things - weight, height, fitness, attitude, personality testing, history etc But at the end of the day your drafting team must take a educated "punt". You can never "over-analysis drafting" from a footy department sense.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Dr Who

[daisycutter 29,604]

Well , not sure about the cynicism bit . I can only comment on what I hear .

The jury's out on whether Matt Rendell's comments were positive . Many would see them as negative .

And we arrive back at "interpretation" and "opinion" 'dc' . I'm happy to accept the other side of the argument by the way . Often with these things , there's no changing people's minds . It's like religion and politics . Better to let sleeping dogs lie - after a time .

Cheers

Macca I didn't say Rendell's comments were positive, I was referring to the "comes from a good family" quote

Re Rendell I just said (by all accounts) he was a good man and didn't deserved to be ruined in that way without a fair chance to explain his intentions/motives

And yes its interpretation and opinion, but being pilloried by prejudicial media trial doesn't fit with my sense of justice

[Macca 16,936]

Macca I didn't say Rendell's comments were positive, I was referring to the "comes from a good family" quote

Re Rendell I just said (by all accounts) he was a good man and didn't deserved to be ruined in that way without a fair chance to explain his intentions/motives

And yes its interpretation and opinion, but being pilloried by prejudicial media trial doesn't fit with my sense of justice

Ok , I misinterpreted that whole positive/negative thing .

'The good family" bit I don't really see as a positive anyway . It could end up "Ruling a line" through many potential draftee's . I think a lot of people could fob the comment off as "That's just something that they say" but I see it differently . These recruiters should stop saying it in my opinion .

Given the whole furore of the "Matt Rendell" saga I'm betting a lot these recruiters will be very careful with what they've got to say about a potential draftee . We now know there's a fairly hefty price to pay for possibly "overstepping the mark" . In my earlier posts I indicated that I didn't think that Rendell should have been sacked . Way too heavy handed in my opinion .

What this comes down to is whether we see these type of remarks as damaging or not . There's 2 camps . And each side probably won't budge .

Cheers

Edited March 21, 2012 by Macca

[daisycutter 29,604]

Ok , I misinterpreted that whole positive/negative thing .

'The good family" bit I don't really see as a positive anyway . It could end up "Ruling a line" through many potential draftee's . I think a lot of people could fob the comment off as "That's just something that they say" but I see it differently . These recruiters should stop saying it in my opinion .

Cheers

Just to clarify, I don't mean positive necessarily in a recruiting sense, just a positive statement as a standalone incidental comment

I'm sure if you were described as "coming from a good family" that wouldn't be a slur on others less fortunate.

[Macca 16,936]

Just to clarify, I don't mean positive necessarily in a recruiting sense, just a positive statement as a standalone incidental comment

I'm sure if you were described as "coming from a good family" that wouldn't be a slur on others less fortunate.

I'd maybe take that person to task if they said something like that to me ! How would they ever really know ? And that's my point - how on earth would these recruiters know if somebody came from a good family or not ? Do they do psychological tests on all the family members as well ? Do they somehow find out about the "Skeletons in the closets" ?

My guess is that this recruiter "bias" has a lot to do with how many parents are living at home . I've had many discussions with various people over the years on this very issue and this is the only conclusion we can come up with .

Cheers

Edited March 21, 2012 by Macca

[Guest Dr Who]

Do they do psychological tests on all the family members as well ? Do they somehow find out about the "Skeletons in the closets" ?

They "might" consider chatting to family members, past coaches, teachers, ex-team mates, ex-opposition players etc - your trying to "build" the best picture you can.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Dr Who

[Chook 15,012]

They "might" consider chatting to family members, past coaches, teachers, ex-team mates, ex-opposition players etc - your trying to "build" the best picture you can.

If they're taking the time to speak to the family members of some of their potential recruits, you'd think they take the time to speak to all of their potential recruits at least once. I would hate to think Barry Prendegast had a chat to Fat Phil but not to Dangerous Dusty.

[daisycutter 29,604]

I'd maybe take that person to task if they said something like that to me ! How would they ever really know ? And that's my point - how on earth would these recruiters know if somebody came from a good family or not ? Do they do psychological tests on all the family members as well ? Do they somehow find out about the "Skeletons in the closets" ?

My guess is that this recruiter "bias" has a lot to do with how many parents are living at home . I've had many discussions with various people over the years on this very issue and this is the only conclusion we can come up with .

Cheers

Macca I really think you are being oversensitive on what is really a casual 'nice' statement whether really knowledgeable or not

Lets agree to disagree

[Macca 16,936]

Macca I really think you are being oversensitive on what is really a casual 'nice' statement whether really knowledgeable or not

Lets agree to disagree

Yep , perhaps I am being a bit oversensitive 'dc' . Happy to admit that by the way . Doesn't mean I'm wrong , it probably means I go into bat for minority causes sometimes .

What this does prove though is that some groups may be prejudiced against . Now whether that prejudice is fair or not is debatable . Of course , there is that "Serengeti plain" argument . For what it's worth I don't reckon Matt Rendell is a racist . Some good may come of this anyway . The issue should be brought out into the open .

His words came out the wrong way . He said the words privately , not publicly , but the effect ends up being the same . Sometimes you have to apologise in life even though you believe you've done nothing wrong . We've probably all had to do that .

Lively debate though 'dc' and happy to agree to disagree .

Cheers

Edit - Matt Rendell apparently made another apology today .

Edited March 21, 2012 by Macca

[Guest Dr Who]

If they're taking the time to speak to the family members of some of their potential recruits, you'd think they take the time to speak to all of their potential recruits at least once. I would hate to think Barry Prendegast had a chat to Fat Phil but not to Dangerous Dusty.

BP was only a component of the "THEY" he is not the whole of the "THEY" - the "They" must make collective decisions, one person can never, never do all your drafting. The day that happens you are finished. BP may be responsible for the collective decision - but cant be expected to be the wealth of ALL knowledge.

Plus

BP & his then recruiting team are only part of the "players journey" - he is not responsible for their complete journey. Plus what I should add I'm not sure you can fully judge that journey till its fully complete - we are a long-way off that.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Sorry to hear about all that 'dl' .

Yeah , I think we're all a little bit edgy right now . I don't like the unfairness that is thrown at us sometimes .

Cheers mate

I'm felling a bit better now. I hadn't eaten & sugar levels may been off a bit, + I've heard of the funeral details 7 have now booked & payed my flights, & I've renewed my membership. so things are getting Organised.

I think I was feeling guilty as well, for not being able to go to my old mates funeral. They wanted me to attend, but didn't realise I'd moved interstate since I last saw them. They may have wanted me to speak?

I am a bit frazzled now, feeling a bit isolated I think. New experience.

I've got some Big decisions to make shortly whether to stay here longterm or come back?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Brock McLean, Colin Sylvia, Brent Moloney, Byron Pickett, Nathan Carroll...

+1

Thanks 'Rogue'.

Brock McLean, Colin Sylvia, Brent Moloney, Byron Pickett, Nathan Carroll...

Brock Mclean I may thought, Yes. But he was overtaken by the rotations & sports sciences. The game got too quick for him. Unlucky change.

Sylvia is a Yes, but we've failed thus far to teach him properly. (If he was at Hawthorn I guarantee you he'd be a regular star).

Moloney, same as Brock but quicker, & helped by Jamar. And has no chronic health/fitness issues anymore.

Byron, we were to far behind the trends of the game when we took him. and he was 'Over it', the game IMO.

Nathan Carroll. Another who would have been right at home in the '80's footy.

All this shows just how far Off the Ball our club has been over the last 15 ish Years.. We just didn't seem to have the right Recipe...

[dee-luded 2,959]

I don't know all the facts but I can't help feeling AD has destroyed the job and reputation of a good person for some misguided political gain.

This is not a good example of working toward reconciliation

I just read something by Caro, about the Rendell/Mifsud/Ali Fahour,,, confrontation argument... That suggests there was Bad blood between them, & this seems much deeper than has played out.

I've met Rendell and seen him around many times and does Not seem an overly temperamental type to me... He seems an affable laconic man in the times I've met/seen him..

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yep , perhaps I am being a bit oversensitive 'dc' . Happy to admit that by the way . Doesn't mean I'm wrong , it probably means I go into bat for minority causes sometimes .

What this does prove though is that some groups may be prejudiced against . Now whether that prejudice is fair or not is debatable . Of course , there is that "Serengeti plain" argument . For what it's worth I don't reckon Matt Rendell is a racist . Some good may come of this anyway . The issue should be brought out into the open .

His words came out the wrong way . He said the words privately , not publicly , but the effect ends up being the same . Sometimes you have to apologise in life even though you believe you've done nothing wrong . We've probably all had to do that .

Lively debate though 'dc' and happy to agree to disagree .

Cheers

Edit - Matt Rendell apparently made an unconditional apology today .

So do I Macka, many times of gone in to bat for weaker people or Victims or sick/injured people on the roadside. I was an Safety Rep & a Shop Steward as well, at differing times.

And I saw Rendell as being Butchered by Stalin.