If only it were as simple as that...

It was as simple as that for Kreuzer:

GWS football boss Graeme Allan confirmed on 3AW on Saturday that he made a play for Kreuzer and that it was quickly rejected.

It was as simple as that for Kreuzer:

I guess Matthew and his management didn't have a "I will wait until the end of the year" mandate for contract discussion and renewal.

Comparisons are simple, getting them relevant isn't.

I agree. However, I believe that the 8+ and 10+ apply for those in the top 25% 'pay bracket' - for those outside the top 25% 'pay bracket,' they are fair game if they are out of contract.

The top 25% "match the offer" restriction only applies to the 8-9 year players - that's the "restriction". 10+ are true Free Agents. It wont be as bad as now because 8-9 yr players outside the top 25% wont cause as much angst and 10+ players rarely leave unless it's for a final flag opportunity they've been denied.

The top 25% "match the offer" restriction only applies to the 8-9 year players - that's the "restriction". 10+ are true Free Agents. It wont be as bad as now because 8-9 yr players outside the top 25% wont cause as much angst and 10+ players rarely leave unless it's for a final flag opportunity they've been denied.

Yes. You're right.

Disregard my earlier post.

In real terms - if you are 26 and not in the top 10 earners you can go where you like.

If you are 24 and not in the top 10 earners you are looking at the draft if you are unhappy with your money.

I guess Matthew and his management didn't have a "I will wait until the end of the year" mandate for contract discussion and renewal.

Comparisons are simple, getting them relevant isn't.

I have no issue if Tom waits until the end of the year to sign, however if he chooses to leave for the cash, he'll be one of the very few young players who will do so, and that will follow him for the rest of his career.

So far, many of the bigger names who have been chased for money, have turned it down. Martin and Kreuzer are just a few early draft picks to have done so.

Probably a small price to pay for the millions that he'll be earning mind you.

I have no issue if Tom waits until the end of the year to sign, however if he chooses to leave for the cash, he'll be one of the very few young players who will do so, and that will follow him for the rest of his career.

So far, many of the bigger names who have been chased for money, have turned it down. Martin and Kreuzer are just a few early draft picks to have done so.

Probably a small price to pay for the millions that he'll be earning mind you.

Fine.

My point is that Tom will get his chance to join "those who turned down big money offers to go to GWS" in Sept/Oct when he will discuss his contract.

Having a go at Tom for not doing as Dustin and Matthew have done is, again, damning him in the hypothetical.

I have no issue if Tom waits until the end of the year to sign, however if he chooses to leave for the cash, he'll be one of the very few young players who will do so, and that will follow him for the rest of his career.

So far, many of the bigger names who have been chased for money, have turned it down. Martin and Kreuzer are just a few early draft picks to have done so.

That's the kicker. How will it look if Kreuzer, Martin, Ward, Swan and the rest stay, but Tom goes? (Not including OK players like Walker & Palmer.) Apart from painting Scully as a greed-head, it will be used by many to paint Melbourne as a hack club incapable of keeping its top pick.

I have no issue if Tom waits until the end of the year to sign, however if he chooses to leave for the cash, he'll be one of the very few young players who will do so, and that will follow him for the rest of his career.

So far, many of the bigger names who have been chased for money, have turned it down. Martin and Kreuzer are just a few early draft picks to have done so.

Probably a small price to pay for the millions that he'll be earning mind you.

I don't know about that. I think there is a price to pay.

Kreuzer will have won the hearts and minds of all Carlton fans by doing what he did (and I suspect the grudging respect of all Victorian footy fans). In so doing he becomes a Carlton man for life and is likely at the end of his career to have his name up there alongside Jesaulanko, Kernahan, Silvagni and co as one of the all time greats of the club.

With that comes respect, adulation, networks and support at one of the great Victorian clubs for rest of his life.

Money can't buy that.

GW$ mercenaries will enjoy the flash cars and and condos up in Blacktown for a while, no doubt.

But you just can't put a price on what Kreuzer and Dustin Martin are going to have.

Edited July 11, 201114 yr by Range Rover

I'm just making the point that sure Watts signed after the season last year, but the rumour, innuendo, speculation was non existent compared to what it is with Scully this year.

Yeah but this year we are dealing with a different set of players who play the whole game with a different set of tactics.

Re ... "rumour, innuendo, speculation"

Some say its GWS which you cant discount on GA & KS past record, some say is a "rat" inside our camp based on the shallow belief he is already gone and they are "doing the right thing", others argue its the "journalist" muck raking to be first with the "scoop" ... but who cares, lets trust and support Tom. IMHO its our best option.

Ultimately, their are no real secrets in football, the truth will all come out one day.

Edited July 11, 201114 yr by hangon007

Fine.

My point is that Tom will get his chance to join "those who turned down big money offers to go to GWS" in Sept/Oct when he will discuss his contract.

Having a go at Tom for not doing as Dustin and Matthew have done is, again, damning him in the hypothetical.

And not once did I dispute your point or have a go at Tom, I actually said that I have no problems with him waiting the season out before he signs.

The point remains though that if he does, he will remain one of a few, and indeed probably the only high draft pick to leave their club for money.

In fact, Harbrow is the only young 'potentially elite' (but not in the same league as Scully/Martin/Kreuzer), to have defected so far.

Kreuzer will have won the hearts and minds of all Carlton fans by doing what he did (and I suspect the grudging respect of all Victorian footy fans). In so doing he becomes a Carlton man for life and is likely at the end of his career to have his name up there alongside Jesaulanko, Kernahan, Silvagni an and co as one of the all time greats of the club.

With that comes respect, adulation, networks and support at one of the great Victorian clubs for rest of his life.

Money can't buy that.

GW$ mercenaries will enjoy the flash cars and and condos up in Blacktown for a while, no doubt.

But you just can't put a price on what Kreuzer and Dustin Martin are going to have.

This is a brilliant point. Surely one Tom will understand. I 100% agree with you.

Yet so many around here ignore it and say .... "oh he is gone & going for the money" ... they sadly under sell one of their own. Its just sad.

Edited July 11, 201114 yr by hangon007

That's the kicker. How will it look if Kreuzer, Martin, Ward, Swan and the rest stay, but Tom goes? (Not including OK players like Walker & Palmer.) Apart from painting Scully as a greed-head, it will be used by many to paint Melbourne as a hack club incapable of keeping its top pick.

He certainly would attract criticism if he does head to GWS for coin. You could say that his reputation, fairly or unfairly has already taken a hit. When looking at the US and UK players move teams ad nauseum, yet in Australia our culture is unique in that it values mateship and loyalty.

FWIW I feel that Robert Flower is held in higher esteem than Ron Barassi by the Melbourne faithful given that RDB left to join Carlton whilst Robbie had many opportunities to leave a cellar dweller of a team yet remained loyal. As for Gerard Healy, where does he sit in the annuls of time???

Massive decision Tom, what will be your legacy?

I don't know about that. I think there is a price to pay.

Kreuzer will have won the hearts and minds of all Carlton fans by doing what he did (and I suspect the grudging respect of all Victorian footy fans). In so doing he becomes a Carlton man for life and is likely at the end of his career to have his name up there alongside Jesaulanko, Kernahan, Silvagni and co as one of the all time greats of the club.

With that comes respect, adulation, networks and support at one of the great Victorian clubs for rest of his life.

Money can't buy that.

GW$ mercenaries will enjoy the flash cars and and condos up in Blacktown for a while, no doubt.

But you just can't put a price on what Kreuzer and Dustin Martin are going to have.

In the long run Kreuzer will be far better off financially by staying at Carlton than he would be taking the cash and running to GWS.

In the long run Kreuzer will be far better off financially by staying at Carlton than he would be taking the cash and running to GWS.

You'd like to think we could say exactly the same if it was Scully/Melbourne.

You'd like to think we could say exactly the same if it was Scully/Melbourne.

I am quite confident that we can.

I work with board members of other AFL clubs and the benefits into the business world that they receive is enormous. Opportunities that we could only dream of.

However I don't think that the player managers get a cut of this money....

Edited July 11, 201114 yr by Mac7

I am quite confident that we can.

I work with board members of other AFL clubs and the benefits into the business world that they receive is enormous. Opportunities that we could only dream of.

However I don't think that the player managers get a cut of this money....

I think it's poignant that Tom's key advisor in all of this - Alistair Lynch - never got to experience what it was like to be a one-club player at one of the traditional Vic clubs.

I hope Jimmy, Garry and even Robbie tell him exactly what it's like. Perhaps it's not too late to change his mind.

Edited July 11, 201114 yr by Range Rover

If Scully leaves, how will posterity record the 2009 draft night at the MCG?

My favourite quote from "The Tackle" article that discusses Kreuzer:

The figure is as an estimate based on figures bandied about for other GWS targets, Tom Scully ($1 million per year) and Callan Ward ($700,000 per year) and what Kreuzer, as one of the league's booming ruckman, could expect in relation.

so... a wild estimate, based on wild estimates..?

I hope Jimmy, Garry and even Robbie tell him exactly what it's like. Perhaps it's not too late to change his mind.

Think they already have. Again Gary let the secret go on footy classified ... then did you listen to his speech on Norm smith night ...

Ok, this thread has got out of hand and all I keep seeing is people repeating things said 10 pages earlier with a few words changed around...

But I will address (again) what I think is the most amusing argument I've seen for so many people to be "99.5%" that Scully will go - they can't be wrong and they just MUST have impeccable sources!

Really?

Let's just for a second consider what constitutes an impeccable source in this instance.

Who could be considered in a position to be such a source?

We'll list them:

- Scully

- Scully's management team

- Gubby Allen (or anyone else from GWS)

- Someone in the know at MFC

Anyone else?

So, let's go through them.

Scully: is desperately trying to divert attention and if he has signed, he's not showing it. Why he'd confirm it behind closed doors and fuel the speculation, is well beyond my reckoning.

Scully's Management Team: have Scully's best interests at heart, and if they are in any way professional, would keep their cards as close to their chest as Scully himself does. Why they'd tell a bottom-feeder like Stevens does not compute.

Gubby Allen: it is in his interest to lie about this very fact. If Scully were signed, he'd likely move on to making noise about another player to destabilize their position with their current club. Remember, he whispers things in hallways and says very little publicly himself, so he wears no blame with the target.

He just tells little untruths and keeps the media talking about GWS, all the while living in hope that he'll land a big fish.

MFC: if we KNOW he is going, it is in our interests to very very publicly campaign for better compensation. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I think our current approach shows clear optimism that he will stay. It in no way helps us for people at the top to know he is going and pretend they don't.

Stevens or Schwarz would be the last people anyone would confide in if they knew.

So.............. which of the above is Mark Stevens' impeccable source?

And can somebody please explain to me why he should believe what they say??

who's Gerald Healy I know of some bloke called Greg !!

I agree with most of your points Artie.

On somewhat of a side note, i'm puzzled as to why the Ox would speak out on the Scully saga at all, let alone say that he's gone?

I think it's poignant that Tom's key advisor in all of this - Alistair Lynch - never got to experience what it was like to be a one-club player at one of the traditional Vic clubs.

I hope Jimmy, Garry and even Robbie tell him exactly what it's like. Perhaps it's not too late to change his mind.

What makes you believe that his mind has been made up? A bunch of rubbish journos down at the tabloid that is the herald sun, jostling for some time in the limelight? Or David Schwartz the highly credible SEN radio presenter, the holder of highly confidential inside information which only he and few other privileged journalists have access to. Tom spoke to the media, and will negotiate with the MFC at the end of the year. Nothing has changed except the panic level of supporters, increased by some attention seeking opinions of morons in the media. I have faith in Scully's values he seems like a great kid, who would simply love nothing more then playing in his native state, on the MCG with his mates. I've seen or heard nothing to suggest otherwise.

In the long run Kreuzer will be far better off financially by staying at Carlton than he would be taking the cash and running to GWS.

As a disclaimer to the below comment I will suggest it not only about money for many players

Having said that .......

Please enlighten me on exactly how you have reached your conclusion above ?

Kreuzer may be better off, playing in a better side, playing in a finals side, playing closer to home, better culture etc but I completely reject the premise that he will be better off financially - the reported money some of the players are being offered will mean that there is no way over the length of their careers that the total payment by GWS would drop below what their original club could pay.

The only carrot GWS does have is the players over the term of their career will be better off financially at GWS.

This isn't really in reply to anyone's post, but I will concede that our lack of decent senior leadership does hurt our cause, in regards to keeping Scully.

I think the kids at the club must cringe as much as us supporters do when we see the efforts of the blokes they are supposed to look up to.

We just need to hope they are excited about the challenge of forging their own path, without the benefit of someone to really show them the way.