i believe there is minimum required involvement in the National Draft, where clubs are required to take a minimum of 4 players, so we need to lose four players from the senior list, excluding rookies, this may also mean that it is difficult to upgrade rookies onto the senior list as it would require more spots?

Actually believe the minimum is only 3...

So worst case scenario, all this years rookies go back on the rookie list and we delist 3 players to draft in 3 more.

There is a minimum we have to delist so unfortunately tough calls will have to be made. Those who are saying Strauss won't be delisted need to recognise that unless he shows something this year, he is one of the prime candidates. So too is Bate. Spencer is a chance if the club believes that Jamar with support from Martin, Gawn, Fitzpatrick will suffice (and Campbell on the rookie list)...

The minimum list changes each year as I also understand it is 3.

Whats to stop us 'downgrading' some of our fringe youngsters who dont have any trade currency such as Strauss and Fitzpatrick back to the Rookie list? It means having to delist them and take the chance no-one else will rookie them first, but it worked for Newton and McNamara this year.

Otherwise its tough picking out of contract candidates, which is a good thing! The list still needs further balancing i think, too many tall developing players not enough smaller onballers, as has been seen in the last fortnight with two rookie listed onballers getting a game ahead of highly drafted kids who have had stagnated developement.

Martin and Macdonald will be gone at the end of the year. Both struggling for games.

I think we trade Wonna and Morton. Get what we can for them now. We might be able to defer picks if we trade to GWS.

I believe Dunn, Bate and Warnock are still contracted for next year...lets move them to the rookie list if possible.

Blokes in their mid-twenties who struggle to get a game have very little trade currency.

yeah, obviously. Was thinking more along the lines of a Kyle Cheney type deal, use Warnock to help upgrade a draft pick etc.

Martin and Macdonald will be gone at the end of the year. Both struggling for games.

Ummm unless we trade for another ruck or pick up a ready-made kid in the draft, there is no way we're ditching Martin. Imagine if Jamar went down again and Gawn still wasn't quite ready? We need him for at least another year IMO.

Fitzpatrick is a 200cm Ruck/Forward with two years on the list both heavily injury affected.

Just a couple of weeks ago he kicked 7 in the Casey reserves and last year Chris Connolly described him as a '200 game player'.

He is on of the players on our list that excites me the most!

I would be astounded if we were to delist someone with such tremendous upside so early into his career.

Well said. I'm absol;utely with you on this. One of the really important project players at the club

Martin and Macdonald will be gone at the end of the year. Both struggling for games.

I think we trade Wonna and Morton. Get what we can for them now. We might be able to defer picks if we trade to GWS.

I believe Dunn, Bate and Warnock are still contracted for next year...lets move them to the rookie list if possible.

Lets keep them and you pick another team to follow.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the rookie list next year. The AFLPA are pushing for it to be scrapped, and the senior list extended. This might have an impact on the rules regarding minimum number of delistings. They might for example say that no delistings have to be made and four players can be added.

Martin and Macdonald will be gone at the end of the year. Both struggling for games.

I think we trade Wonna and Morton. Get what we can for them now. We might be able to defer picks if we trade to GWS.

I believe Dunn, Bate and Warnock are still contracted for next year...lets move them to the rookie list if possible.

I checked the side for Friday night and blow me down who is in???

Yes. GWS will trade heavily for an unfit small player in Wonna.

And good idea lets move Bate, Dunn, Warnock and any one else we can find onto the rookie list. Any chance you might try to trade either Bate, Dunn for something??

I thought I heard somewhere that rookie elevations count toward the minimum 3 picks you must have in the draft. It's nigh on impossible to keep abreast of the constantly changing and mutating beast that is the AFL rule book.

The out of contract players this year according to the "contracts thread" on bigfooty are Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Green, Maric, Martin, Morton, Scully, Sylvia, Warnock and Wonaemirri.

I remember posting somewhere at the end of last season that if Martin and Maric did enough to save their carrers this year we'd struggle to find 3 delistings, and both deserve new contracts on current form. Wonna and Warnock would be the 2 most likely from that list imo.

We'll need to be creative. I'd trade any of Bate, Dunn, Macdonald, Warnock or Wonna for an upgrade from pick 50 to 49. If any of them were prepared to take a chance in the draft I'd be happy to Rookie list them, even the uncontracted ones. Juice and McNamara will free up a few spots

All really good suggestions and good discussion on this thread.

A couple of notes:

1) The "moving" to the rookie list option that is getting thrown around on this thread requires delisting then redrafting in the rookie draft. So it's certainly not as simple as just shifting them between lists. You will also risk losing that player to another team that picks earlier in the rookie draft. When it has been done in the past with Juice, Meeson and McNamara...all have been delisted first and then redrafted as they were available when we picked in the rookie draft.

2) Also a trade will just bring back another player (and therefore back to square one in terms of needing to delist numbers) or will return a draft pick. If the draft pick then does not get used then the trade was basically to delist a player but look after them by giving them a new home. Ie, we would get nothing from the trade if we don't use the draft pick. If we use the draft pick then we are back in the same spot of having to delist someone else. Both the trading for player or picks scenarios are effectively one in one out so doesn't impact the delisting. [Note: Of course there is the scenario where we say trade Morton, get a 2nd round pick, then ditch our other later picks and just use the Morton pick and 2 others in the draft to meet our 3. Though this would be unlikely because it would mean we use our 1st and 2nd round picks and the 2nd round pick for Morton and leave our 3rd round pick on the table. We will definately be picking in at least the first 3 rounds of the draft.]

Therefore trades really can't be factored into the delists. And I think (correct me if I'm wrong here) we have a maxed out rookie list. So to delist and then re rookie draft would mean we would have to clear some spots on the rookie list. This will be tough if we don't promote any rookies this year.

So all in all - trades and re-rookeeing are a separate analysis. There has to be 3-4 delisted. Tough call and will be interesting to see how some of the fringe players go in the 2nd part of the year.

All really good suggestions and good discussion on this thread.

A couple of notes:

1) The "moving" to the rookie list option that is getting thrown around on this thread requires delisting then redrafting in the rookie draft. So it's certainly not as simple as just shifting them between lists. You will also risk losing that player to another team that picks earlier in the rookie draft. When it has been done in the past with Juice, Meeson and McNamara...all have been delisted first and then redrafted as they were available when we picked in the rookie draft.

2) Also a trade will just bring back another player (and therefore back to square one in terms of needing to delist numbers) or will return a draft pick. If the draft pick then does not get used then the trade was basically to delist a player but look after them by giving them a new home. Ie, we would get nothing from the trade if we don't use the draft pick. If we use the draft pick then we are back in the same spot of having to delist someone else. Both the trading for player or picks scenarios are effectively one in one out so doesn't impact the delisting. [Note: Of course there is the scenario where we say trade Morton, get a 2nd round pick, then ditch our other later picks and just use the Morton pick and 2 others in the draft to meet our 3. Though this would be unlikely because it would mean we use our 1st and 2nd round picks and the 2nd round pick for Morton and leave our 3rd round pick on the table. We will definately be picking in at least the first 3 rounds of the draft.]

Therefore trades really can't be factored into the delists. And I think (correct me if I'm wrong here) we have a maxed out rookie list. So to delist and then re rookie draft would mean we would have to clear some spots on the rookie list. This will be tough if we don't promote any rookies this year.

So all in all - trades and re-rookeeing are a separate analysis. There has to be 3-4 delisted. Tough call and will be interesting to see how some of the fringe players go in the 2nd part of the year.

I doubt we'll delist more than 2. Other spots will be freed up by trading for upgraded picks or in a promise to rookie if noone else picks them up like we did with Juice. As I said Juice and MacNamara won't be re-rookied.

My recollection is that the minimum has been 3 players turned over.

Will Juice go back? I'm not certain that he would, considering he didn't come onto the senior list to replace a player with a LTI that will return, he took Bruce's vacant spot.

In any case, Juice WILL be let go.

Strauss will be given more time, as will Fitzpatrick.

My guess is 3 selected from Bate, Dunn, Juice, MacDonald.

Of course, it's likely that all of this will be moot once the new CBA is negotiated between the AFL and the AFLPA.

The AFLPA is pushing for the (likely) abolishment of the rookie list, with those spots being added to the senior list.

It is anyone's guess how it will change things, but I'd guess the minimum turnover will remain the same, but it will also mean we won't need to "find room" to upgrade Evans or Nicholson.

I'd say this new setup would put Cam Johnston's and Robbie Campbell's positions in jeopardy.

I checked the side for Friday night and blow me down who is in???

Yes. GWS will trade heavily for an unfit small player in Wonna.

And good idea lets move Bate, Dunn, Warnock and any one else we can find onto the rookie list. Any chance you might try to trade either Bate, Dunn for something??

Two rookie upgrades in two weeks... Martin and macdonald both getting games is just a result of injuries.

Martin is playing for his life... needs to show he can play on other positions other than ruck.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the rookie list next year. The AFLPA are pushing for it to be scrapped, and the senior list extended. This might have an impact on the rules regarding minimum number of delistings. They might for example say that no delistings have to be made and four players can be added.

Yeah, there might be some transitional arragement that could benefit us if we don't want to ditch a few senior-listed players.

didnt bate sign a 2 yr deal last year?

I have it that he did...

Contracted to End of 2011

Jake Fitzpatrick

Max Gawn

Brad Green.......... (Vets List)

Addam Maric

Stefan Martin

Cale Morton

Tom Scully

Colin Sylvia

Austin Wonaeamirri

Contracted to End of 2012

Rohan Bail

Clint Bartram

Matthew Bate

Jamie Bennell

Sam Blease

Lucas Cook

Troy Davis

Lynden Dunn

(partial list)

----------------------------------------------

Edited May 26, 201114 yr by dee-luded

If either Malthouse or Roos take over I would say Bate would be safe. I reckon a new coach would have a crack at getting him to play a role.

Gone are Newton, Dunn, Spencer.

Evans and Nicholson likely to be elevated as we'll want a new contigent of rookies.

That leaves some on thin ice. Maric, Jetta, Bennell will probably stay. Wonaeamirri is in a little trouble but I think is a keep.

Do we offer some up for trade. Jones? Morton? Davey even? Can't see it happening, although I'd be open to offers. I reckon they'll want to use their first 2 picks in the draft at least.

It appears as a club we're running out of deadwood, let the new growth flourish.

I've been thinking similar to that, in that, I think he's (Bate) the type that the Swans seem to like to get hold of, and retune.

I have it that he did...

Contracted to End of 2011

Jake Fitzpatrick

Max Gawn

Brad Green.......... (Vets List)

Addam Maric

Stefan Martin

Cale Morton

Tom Scully

Colin Sylvia

Austin Wonaeamirri

Contracted to End of 2012

Rohan Bail

Clint Bartram

Matthew Bate

Jamie Bennell

Sam Blease

Lucas Cook

Troy Davis

Lynden Dunn

(partial list)

----------------------------------------------

Oh FFS!

Ok, I had at least 1 of those 2 as certainties for the chopping block.

Juice is gone. I'm not sure of their contract situation, but I think this will bode terribly for both Joel MacDonald and Warnock.

The rookie list thing might save us, letting us move on Cam Johnston, Robbie Campbell and/or Kelvin Lawrence.

Edited May 26, 201114 yr by Artie Bucco

Nice 1st post! Look at the response.

Bewdy Newc.