I have said similar to this earlier, and agree completely, but afl teams don't give up consciously, surely you will concede that.

You would certainly say that the Roos applied themselves much better, ran harder and contested better.

It was unnaceptable as we all agree. It seems that WYL has argued with me (Yodes) vigorously in an effort to agree with me...

Yes, its getting quite semantic.......

Surely you can see the difference between literally giving up i.e. refusing to even exert any effort and figuratively giving up, i.e. dropping their collective heads and subconsciously refusing to push themselves to the limit of their abilities to get the result. Surely you can see that without having to dabble in semantics?

And to say the margin would have been far greater than 41 points? Well over the course of 3 quarters the margin was 72 points, so it was far greater than just the 41.

Surely if you were Nathan Jones or one of a few others you would resent your team-mates suggesting that you gave up after busting your backside for four quarters. I want those blokes who run against the tide encouraged to continue to do so.

Yes clearly I can see the difference as I have explained numerous times if you would care to read the thread, some can't.

There are no absolutes, especially when you are talking about 22 blokes over the course of 120 minutes.

Surely if you were Nathan Jones or one of a few others you would resent your team-mates suggesting that you gave up after busting your backside for four quarters. I want those blokes who run against the tide encouraged to continue to do so.

Yes clearly I can see the difference as I have explained numerous times if you would care to read the thread, some can't.

There are no absolutes, especially when you are talking about 22 blokes over the course of 120 minutes.

Yes i am sure a lot of team mates had trouble looking Chunk in the eye after that game. That's the point, we had far too many passengers and not enough gut running work.

No one is blaming Jonesy, but it is a team game.

And the statement Aaron gave was forced. It was there to diffuse what Chip had said on the ground.

And the statement Aaron gave was forced. It was there to diffuse what Chip had said on the ground.

Evidence?

Evidence?

I read it 3 times, that's enough for me...it read like a media release. Pure Fluff. It would have been better to say nothing.

I read it 3 times, that's enough for me...it read like a media release. Pure Fluff. It would have been better to say nothing.

You have made the claim numerous times that Davey was forced to respond in the way that he did, can you provide us with anything that can help us substantiate this claim? Anything at all?

You have made the claim numerous times that Davey was forced to respond in the way that he did, can you provide us with anything that can help us substantiate this claim? Anything at all?

One of the leadership group would have been singled out to read that release, it just happened to be Flash, he got the short straw. I am sure he would have hated disagreeing with his team mate, as deep down he would have felt the intensity drop off out there.

But the club had to respond with something.

It is exactly the way it would have happened. I didn't make anything up.

It's the way the Media works. Watch the Documentary "Labour in Power" that will tell you a lot about spin & media management...I spent 2 years working on that baby.

I like this one.

I like this one.

Cool, it's a five part series so there is loads of good info....spin doctors are even interviewed!!!

One of the leadership group would have been singled out to read that release, it just happened to be Flash, he got the short straw. I am sure he would have hated disagreeing with his team mate, as deep down he would have felt the intensity drop off out there.

But the club had to respond with something.

WYL you are not doing yourself any favour here.

Just admit it is your opinion not fact.

We all know that "sometimes" players or officials are "coached" or "encouraged" to give a "party line". In this case we can only "speculate" if it is so

WYL you are not doing yourself any favour here.

Just admit it is your opinion not fact.

We all know that "sometimes" players or officials are "coached" or "encouraged" to give a "party line". In this case we can only "speculate" if it is so

sure it's my opinion, but i would also put some coin on it as well.

Give me an alternative?? i would like to hear that one....Remember we dropped 70 points to the kangas after 1/4 time.

It maybe speculation, but deep down you know what the truth is.

Edited May 18, 201114 yr by why you little

sure it's my opinion, but i would also put some coin on it as well.

Give me an alternative?? i would like to hear that one....Remember we dropped 70 points to the kangas after 1/4 time.

It maybe speculation, but deep down you know what the truth is.

Glad we cleared that one up

Edited May 18, 201114 yr by daisycutter

Glad we cleared that one up

It's a discussion board...filled with info and opinion..but i know what i saw with my own eyes on Saturday Arvo, and i know i wasn't the only one watching.

So i still stand by what i said. Chip only said it to harden the joint up.

Surely if you were Nathan Jones or one of a few others you would resent your team-mates suggesting that you gave up after busting your backside for four quarters. I want those blokes who run against the tide encouraged to continue to do so.

Yes clearly I can see the difference as I have explained numerous times if you would care to read the thread, some can't.

There are no absolutes, especially when you are talking about 22 blokes over the course of 120 minutes.

Yes there were a handful of players who didn't stop (Frawley being one of them). So what? It's a team game; as a team we turned it up after quarter time. Until the club understands that they will continue to underachieve. One of our junior players (and probably future leaders) acknowledged this after the game. One of our senior players (and current leaders) refuted this and gave platitudes and a "she'll be right" attitude. This shows what has been wrong with the club and hopefully what will fix it in the coming years.

I can cop losing to Hawthorn even if we also turned it up after half time then as well. They are further developed than us as a team, are more physically developed and more structurally developed. I can't cop losing to North who we should be at the very least on even footing with. We led by 5 goals in the first quarter and lost by 7. Our key defender said afterwards that we "gave up" after quarter time and Bailey let the players know all about on the ground after the game. What is so difficult to understand about a bunch of footballers getting ahead of themselves thinking they had the game in the bag (particularly on the back of the previous weeks effort) and subconsciosuly slackening off (as a team) for the rest of the game? This is what happened and proves the mental fragility of our team who get far too pleased with themselves far too easily.

Edited May 18, 201114 yr by Demonic Ascent

Would a Hawthorn, Essendon or Collingwood person come out with that line of words???

We will NEVER improve as a club while our supporters allow these excuses to get by.

I think you're over rating your role as a supporter.

I think you're over rating your role as a supporter.

Certainly not my friend.

I was going to say "short straw" and "coin"....., but DC in the meantime has extracted the impossible and cleared things up.

Nice little miracle you created DC. Hard work though.

You do have lots of points.