Israel Folau signs with GWS?

[titan_uranus 25,043]

The argument that the money is wasted on Folau and Hunt and should be spent on Auskick and/or the actually talented AFL players misses a major point: signing Folau and Hunt sends a massive signal to the youth of Western Sydney and Queensland that there is another code they can grow up with outside of NRL. This money is being spent not just on two athletes (that's really all they are at the moment), it's getting the AFL publicity and fame in areas where it usually isn't even thought about. If Folau becomes a success (or even if he doesn't), the youths of Western Sydney may well take to AFL instead of NRL. If the AFL grows into a truly national sport, think about the size of the pool the clubs will be able to choose from in 10-20 years time. That's the major benefit of all this.

[beelzebub 23,382]

Another nail in the coffin for the NRL .. Now relegated last !! This is a war and this is a defection of the highest order. NRL now on borrowed time!

[Tricky 341]

Bottom line is Folau has never played this game before and wont just be able to pick it up willy nilly!

At best Folau and Hunt will become bit players who will struggle to get a game come their 3rd season once their plethera of top draft picks start to develop.

It will be very intersting to see what happens come their 2nd or 3rd season when McKenna or Sheedy don't want to play them cause they know they have better kids on their list who have grown up playing the game but the FD and the AFL will no doubt be pressuring them to play Hunt and Folau so the public can watch the investment in all it's mediocrity!

I think it's easy to underestimate the elite athleticism of these guys. (edit)KH has some football playing history and anyone who has seen Falau in action should be able to identify some very transferable skills. Kicking will no doubt be the key skill that will need immediate attention, however many within the AFL believe that this will in fact be easier learnt by these guys, than some existing AFL players who have developed unorthodoxed/ineffective kicking actions. Why would it be any less feasible than bringing Irishmen over from their game?

Time will tell of course, however whether they are moved aside for young players in a couple of years will be somewhat irrelevant - the PR for our game achieved along the way, within these NRL heartlands, will have been well worth the investment.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Tricky

[Inner Demon 1]

I love these moves on the NRL players. I see Folau, in particular, as a very similar story to Nic Naitanui just a couple of years behind in on-field experience. It's awesome for the game in NSW & QLD and it gives fans in VIC a reason to watch the new clubs to check out the freak shows.

Furthermore, it shouldn't be ignored from our perspective that the signings of Karmichael & Izzy cut out $1m that would otherwise have been free to throw at our young guns. These big risks take a chunk out of their pulling power for their 'free agency' type opportunities.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Another nail in the coffin for the NRL .. Now relegated last !! This is a war and this is a defection of the highest order. NRL now on borrowed time!

This is just wrong. The NRL will never be as big as the AFL, but to say it is dead or dying is ridiculous. There is a large and very loyal supporter base for the sport up here in the northern states and while the AFL may be able to get more juniors playing and following our game, Rugby League will always be around.

[e25 5]

I think people miss that both Hunt and Folau, for marketing purposes, are worth every cent.

Maybe not for their respective teams, but for the AFL itself.

These 2 will generate unprecedented media coverage and interest and without them I struggle to think how the AFL could possibly have hoped to convince the NSW & QLD media to cover the development of these clubs.

Any publicity is good publicity for these teams, even if it is borne out of angst for losing the NRL's brightest young talent.

Some are saying the money should instead be poured into junior grassroots programs like Auskick.

You can lead a horse to water... but the AFL may have found a way to piqué the interest of 'foreign' kids and make them drink.

Auskick is the NEXT step.

Remember the AFL has allocated to spend $20mil per year in these places for the next decade.

[e25 5]

This is just wrong. The NRL will never be as big as the AFL, but to say it is dead or dying is ridiculous. There is a large and very loyal supporter base for the sport up here in the northern states and while the AFL may be able to get more juniors playing and following our game, Rugby League will always be around.

I tend to agree, but you might see a situation occur similar to what has happened with the NBL, although not as severe.

[Nasher 33,617]

The argument that the money is wasted on Folau and Hunt and should be spent on Auskick and/or the actually talented AFL players misses a major point: signing Folau and Hunt sends a massive signal to the youth of Western Sydney and Queensland that there is another code they can grow up with outside of NRL. This money is being spent not just on two athletes (that's really all they are at the moment), it's getting the AFL publicity and fame in areas where it usually isn't even thought about. If Folau becomes a success (or even if he doesn't), the youths of Western Sydney may well take to AFL instead of NRL. If the AFL grows into a truly national sport, think about the size of the pool the clubs will be able to choose from in 10-20 years time. That's the major benefit of all this.

In addition to your points (which are all true), it also ingores the fact that it's none of the AFL's, Voss' or anyone else's business _who_ GWS or GC spend their salary cap on, so long as they do it within the allotted rules. Money out of the GWS recruitment fund is not impacting the AFL's investment in Auskick etc, so that argument is moot. As Inner Demon says, all it's affecting is GWS and GC's ability to poach other players because it's just money that would've been spent on nicking players from other clubs. In my eyes, nicking players from other codes is a million times better for our sport than intra-code poaching.

From my personal POV, the recruitment of the likes of Hunt and Folau means these teams might be somewhat worth watching now, rather than being two boring franchises. I can't wait to see how they transition, because to my knowledge it's not a transition that has been successfully made before. What's that worth the AFL? I know it's gimmicky, but it does add interest to me.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Given that Folau has no previous experience with Australian Rules football (Hunt played a little), surely he will spend next year in the VFL with the GWS and not go off to France or anywhere else like Hunt did.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Given that Folau has no previous experience with Australian Rules football (Hunt played a little), surely he will spend next year in the VFL with the GWS and not go off to France or anywhere else like Hunt did.

If he is serious about it he will need to, Hunt did it the wrong way IMHO.

[The O 39]

I think people miss that both Hunt and Folau, for marketing purposes, are worth every cent.

Maybe not for their respective teams, but for the AFL itself.

These 2 will generate unprecedented media coverage and interest and without them I struggle to think how the AFL could possibly have hoped to convince the NSW & QLD media to cover the development of these clubs.

Any publicity is good publicity for these teams, even if it is borne out of angst for losing the NRL's brightest young talent.

Some are saying the money should instead be poured into junior grassroots programs like Auskick.

You can lead a horse to water... but the AFL may have found a way to piqué the interest of 'foreign' kids and make them drink.

Auskick is the NEXT step.

Remember the AFL has allocated to spend $20mil per year in these places for the next decade.

Agree with you're comments 100% Enforcer.

Having lived in both Sydney and most recently returned from spending 4 years on the GC, the level of interest in these new clubs from general "non AFL" followers/supporters will be significant increased as a result of the signings of Special K and Falou. I think Voss's comments and others like his fail to grasp the reality of these regions. They are inherently strong NRL regions with no apparent AFL links, with little understanding or significant interest by many in the community in the AFL game. This is the inherent difference with the establishment of clubs such as Fremantle, Port Adel, etc. that they weren't trying to create and develop supporters interest in the game of AFL, rather get them to follow their club.

People seem to focus on the fact that we should be giving these millions to young players such as Ablett, etc or focusing on the development of our young players, but this is narrow minded. The signing of Falou and Hunt from a promotional and marketing aspect of the game that is AFL, far outweights the nay sayers. More young players, supporters and followers will be drawn to the AFL from following other sports (not just NRL), who over time will grow to love the game as the rest of us do.

By paying big $$$ with the majority of their contracts for marketing purposes to these 2 elite NRL players, the AFL gains what cannot be achieved without spending tens, if not hundreds of millions - that is instant recognition and interest from young (particularly) and old sports lovers with someone they recognise. Whilst Sheedy can spout headlines and jump up and down to create interest in the GWS, the signing of no current AFL player (Ablett, Judd, Franklin, Martin, or whoever) to these new clubs can create the interest that can be achieved by poaching a marque NRL player. I guarantee you'll have 5 times more young supporters in the regions requesting signatures, getting jumpers and merchadise associated with Special K and Falou. I personally think it's a master stroke. Instant recognition with someone the community already follows, or has an interest in.

With over $250 million being spent on the GC and GWS new stadiums and another $50+ million on junior development, the $3mil over 3 years to each should be commended not put down. By "splashing the cash" at these players and marketing the game heavily in the regions, will not just have significant benefits to the AFL but all clubs. If moderately successful, the development of these regions have the potential to add $000's of millions of dollars to future TV rights deals.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

I think it's easy to underestimate the elite athleticism of these guys. (edit)KH has some football playing history and anyone who has seen Falau in action should be able to identify some very transferable skills. Kicking will no doubt be the key skill that will need immediate attention, however many within the AFL believe that this will in fact be easier learnt by these guys, than some existing AFL players who have developed unorthodoxed/ineffective kicking actions. Why would it be any less feasible than bringing Irishmen over from their game?

Time will tell of course, however whether they are moved aside for young players in a couple of years will be somewhat irrelevant - the PR for our game achieved along the way, within these NRL heartlands, will have been well worth the investment.

Being good athleets doesn't transfer into being good AFL players and neither does playing under 14's in Queensland where the standard is not going to be anywhere near as good as it is in Victoria, SA or WA.

If people cast their minds back about 10 years the NBL player from Melbourne Tigers Daniel Smith was leaving basketball to play footy with the view of being drafted in a year or so and we all know how that turned out, anyone hear of a succesful AFL career for him that I didn't know of? Also he was talented junior playing in Victoria, Karmichael will have a bit of work to do if he's going to legitimatly make it, and don't even get me started on Israel.

As for the argument about Irishmen making it so why can't NRL players, Gaelic football is far more similar to our game then NRL is. Even then the list of Irishmen who have become top players isn't overly long. Jim Stynes, Sean Wight, Tagh Kennelly, Setanta O'Halphin is starting to play some good football after about 7 years on Carlton's list, will Hunt and Folau stay this long or will they take the money and run after their 3 year deals?

If the Gold Coast and GWS want to waste their money on these side shows and play them instead of a kid who deserves it then that's their business, howvere I don't agree that the AFL should be paying half their slary for it.

The only good thing I guess will be if the clubs are forced to play them then the sooner they'll be shown up for the mediocore players they will be. Folau's stated he wants to play FF for GWS, I can't wait till Chip Frawley stitches him up and can then claim he's taken the scalp of a player earning 3 times his wage.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

Agree with you're comments 100% Enforcer.

Having lived in both Sydney and most recently returned from spending 4 years on the GC, the level of interest in these new clubs from general "non AFL" followers/supporters will be significant increased as a result of the signings of Special K and Falou. I think Voss's comments and others like his fail to grasp the reality of these regions. They are inherently strong NRL regions with no apparent AFL links, with little understanding or significant interest by many in the community in the AFL game. This is the inherent difference with the establishment of clubs such as Fremantle, Port Adel, etc. that they weren't trying to create and develop supporters interest in the game of AFL, rather get them to follow their club.

People seem to focus on the fact that we should be giving these millions to young players such as Ablett, etc or focusing on the development of our young players, but this is narrow minded. The signing of Falou and Hunt from a promotional and marketing aspect of the game that is AFL, far outweights the nay sayers. More young players, supporters and followers will be drawn to the AFL from following other sports (not just NRL), who over time will grow to love the game as the rest of us do.

By paying big $$$ with the majority of their contracts for marketing purposes to these 2 elite NRL players, the AFL gains what cannot be achieved without spending tens, if not hundreds of millions - that is instant recognition and interest from young (particularly) and old sports lovers with someone they recognise. Whilst Sheedy can spout headlines and jump up and down to create interest in the GWS, the signing of no current AFL player (Ablett, Judd, Franklin, Martin, or whoever) to these new clubs can create the interest that can be achieved by poaching a marque NRL player. I guarantee you'll have 5 times more young supporters in the regions requesting signatures, getting jumpers and merchadise associated with Special K and Falou. I personally think it's a master stroke. Instant recognition with someone the community already follows, or has an interest in.

With over $250 million being spent on the GC and GWS new stadiums and another $50+ million on junior development, the $3mil over 3 years to each should be commended not put down. By "splashing the cash" at these players and marketing the game heavily in the regions, will not just have significant benefits to the AFL but all clubs. If moderately successful, the development of these regions have the potential to add $000's of millions of dollars to future TV rights deals.

I do see your point about the marketing and promotional aspect of having big NRL signings like Hunt and Folau, however will the interest still be as big when Hunt and Folau can't get a kick and spend the majority of their season playing in the reserves?

[The O 39]

If the Gold Coast and GWS want to waste their money on these side shows and play them instead of a kid who deserves it then that's their business, howvere I don't agree that the AFL should be paying half their slary for it.

The only good thing I guess will be if the clubs are forced to play them then the sooner they'll be shown up for the mediocore players they will be. Folau's stated he wants to play FF for GWS, I can't wait till Chip Frawley stitches him up and can then claim he's taken the scalp of a player earning 3 times his wage.

TD - How do these clubs create a supporter base? Even if one of these clubs created a list with Ablett, Franklin, Jurrah, Riewolt, and Frawley they aren't going to achieve what almost everyone (AFL and most supporters) hope they achieve. That is - followers/members of the game of AFL. How else do you attract people to the game that is AFL? It's taken 20 years for the Sydney to develop a following, 3 premierships and millions more for there to be interest in Southern Queensland in AFL.

If you think it's a waste to spend $3mil of 3 years on each, I'm guessing you probably think it's a waste to spend $250mil building new stadiums at Carrara and Bankstown. Hell the AFL could have left Carrara as it was and played games at it undeveloped and saved itself the money. The $3mil is a drop in the ocean considering what the AFL is investing in each of these regions.

[Tricky 341]

Being good athleets doesn't transfer into being good AFL players and neither does playing under 14's in Queensland where the standard is not going to be anywhere near as good as it is in Victoria, SA or WA.

If people cast their minds back about 10 years the NBL player from Melbourne Tigers Daniel Smith was leaving basketball to play footy with the view of being drafted in a year or so and we all know how that turned out, anyone hear of a succesful AFL career for him that I didn't know of? Also he was talented junior playing in Victoria, Karmichael will have a bit of work to do if he's going to legitimatly make it, and don't even get me started on Israel.

As for the argument about Irishmen making it so why can't NRL players, Gaelic football is far more similar to our game then NRL is. Even then the list of Irishmen who have become top players isn't overly long. Jim Stynes, Sean Wight, Tagh Kennelly, Setanta O'Halphin is starting to play some good football after about 7 years on Carlton's list, will Hunt and Folau stay this long or will they take the money and run after their 3 year deals?

If the Gold Coast and GWS want to waste their money on these side shows and play them instead of a kid who deserves it then that's their business, howvere I don't agree that the AFL should be paying half their slary for it.

The only good thing I guess will be if the clubs are forced to play them then the sooner they'll be shown up for the mediocore players they will be. Folau's stated he wants to play FF for GWS, I can't wait till Chip Frawley stitches him up and can then claim he's taken the scalp of a player earning 3 times his wage.

Guess we'll have to wait and see re their ability to adjust TD - I'm personally looking forward to it with much anticipation.

I'll agree to disagree about the $ though - it is money very well spent, especially so for the AFL contribution, IMO.

[Tricky 341]

Given that Folau has no previous experience with Australian Rules football (Hunt played a little), surely he will spend next year in the VFL with the GWS and not go off to France or anywhere else like Hunt did.

If he is serious about it he will need to, Hunt did it the wrong way IMHO.

Agree completely.

[The O 39]

I do see your point about the marketing and promotional aspect of having big NRL signings like Hunt and Folau, however will the interest still be as big when Hunt and Folau can't get a kick and spend the majority of their season playing in the reserves?

The interest may not be as big as it will be for their initial period, however if some of that interest in seeing Falou and Hunt play can develop into these people being supporters/followers or ideally members of the AFL, then the AFL will have succeeded. If the both fail to get a kick and spend their entire AFL career playing reserves, so be it. However if there is even a small number of supporters/followers who take more than a passing interest in AFL arising from having two elite NRL players play AFL, then the money will have been well spent. Not only will there be a signifcant interest from NRL followers in the GWS and GC, I'd content most sports lovers will take more than a passing interest in watching and following these clubs/players.

Whilst they may fail, what if they succeed? Imagine the possibilities.... Both are elite athletes, are extremely competitive, have sure hands and are both quick. With enough development I'd content they could be more than decent players.

[Daz's Dee's 113]

It's official. Just listening too the press confrence now on SEN!

[titan_uranus 25,043]

In addition to your points (which are all true), it also ingores the fact that it's none of the AFL's, Voss' or anyone else's business _who_ GWS or GC spend their salary cap on, so long as they do it within the allotted rules. Money out of the GWS recruitment fund is not impacting the AFL's investment in Auskick etc, so that argument is moot. As Inner Demon says, all it's affecting is GWS and GC's ability to poach other players because it's just money that would've been spent on nicking players from other clubs. In my eyes, nicking players from other codes is a million times better for our sport than intra-code poaching.

From my personal POV, the recruitment of the likes of Hunt and Folau means these teams might be somewhat worth watching now, rather than being two boring franchises. I can't wait to see how they transition, because to my knowledge it's not a transition that has been successfully made before. What's that worth the AFL? I know it's gimmicky, but it does add interest to me.

Agree entirely. Like the point about making the two franchises a little more exciting to watch: will draw crowds through the gate in Round 1, and who knows, maybe some NRL fans who haven't seen a lot of AFL will come to see Hunt (and later Folau) and realise how much better AFL is, thus increasing patronage/viewership/membership?

Question: why did you write '_who_' instead of 'who'? Absolutely useless observation but it's ticking me off. Also, I'm trying to procrastinate away from studying so I'll post on anything at the moment...

Whilst they may fail, what if they succeed? Imagine the possibilities.... Both are elite athletes, are extremely competitive, have sure hands and are both quick. With enough development I'd content they could be more than decent players.

And Folau's only 21...I really do think he'll end up being very good at AFL.

[Daz's Dee's 113]

Agree entirely. Like the point about making the two franchises a little more exciting to watch: will draw crowds through the gate in Round 1, and who knows, maybe some NRL fans who haven't seen a lot of AFL will come to see Hunt (and later Folau) and realise how much better AFL is, thus increasing patronage/viewership/membership?

Question: why did you write '_who_' instead of 'who'? Absolutely useless observation but it's ticking me off. Also, I'm trying to procrastinate away from studying so I'll post on anything at the moment...

And Folau's only 21...I really do think he'll end up being very good at AFL.

I agree if Santana O'alpin can make it and actually play some pretty good footy (leading goal kicker at Carlton thus far) he has a great chance IMO!

[Daz's Dee's 113]

6 million over 4 years thats the rumoured amount WOW!

[sylvinator 96]

The guys 195cm, 102kg.

He has supreme pace, agility, evasiveness. His marking will be elite.

If O'Hailpin can make it from hurling, no doubt Falau can make it.

Very jealous, wish he was coming to the demons

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

6 million over 4 years thats the rumoured amount WOW!

He is worth it.

Not because of playing ability, but because of the attention, interest and marketing value he will bring to the club. It is a kick in the teeth to most other players who have worked all their lives to play AFL, but footballers are entertainers, you don't necessarily have to be the best to be the most entertaining.

If I was looking to sponsor the GWS or broadcast their games I would be far more interested knowing that Folau would be playing.

[Nasher 33,617]

Question: why did you write '_who_' instead of 'who'? Absolutely useless observation but it's ticking me off. Also, I'm trying to procrastinate away from studying so I'll post on anything at the moment...

Brain fart. That's how I emphasise when there's no 'rich text' functionality available. I momentarily forgot I could use italics (which I normally would).

I blame my cold.

[beelzebub 23,382]

This is just wrong. The NRL will never be as big as the AFL, but to say it is dead or dying is ridiculous. There is a large and very loyal supporter base for the sport up here in the northern states and while the AFL may be able to get more juniors playing and following our game, Rugby League will always be around.

wrong ?? you think ? The NRL has already been dead once. Its actually kept alive by artificial respiration ina ll reality...called Mudoch. It wouldnt exist in ints own right as does AFl or eaven Soccer if not for this artifical environment. Attendences are ridiculous for a supposed tier 1 sport. Memberships of the League teams are miniscule and dont contribute in any meaningful way tothe respected clubs bottom lines.

The demise of the NRL will not be quite overnight but within 5-10 years if its cant substantiate enough revenue input from interested parties ( i.e ) sponsorships then it will fall below its critical inertia point and fail to have any raison detre to exist commercially.. Keep in mind we arent talkig a real national comp here. Its a paraochial arrangement between mainly NSW interests with just enough QLD~ to warrant a ricalry , this with a token dalliance towards NZ and a curious ( of late ) infiltration to Vic. The latter they are obviously happy to kill of at it imposes a threat again to the narrow mindedness of the NSW base.

As pointed out by others Union is more a truly National efort and gaiining acceptances. It wont lok to compete eyey to eye with AFL but co exist. NRL stil thinks its [censored] of the walk when its a sqwarny chook in reality. The more and more "idols" cross over teh more it weakens the resolve of supposed die hards to not consider AFL the premier code. Kids are kids and if they see that its alright for these guys to switch allegiances then they will to, or give it a good look.

It might take a good few years yet but each move by the AFL to scuttle its adversary will indeed weaken its ( NRL ) ability to combat.

There might be indeed 'pockets' of real resolve yet in NSW and some parts of QLD~ to suggest a resistance but all in all there will be no stampede of defiance to sign up an army to deny the AFL its eventual win.

Once a critical mass to exist is lost to the NRL it will fall over rapidly. Once NEWS considers its investment of money beter psent elsewhere the NRL will indeed die. Some form of League may continue after but not as we know it Jim !!