http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/russian-roulette/story-e6frf9jf-1225854267521

"Dean Bailey was quick to react to his poor structure in Round 1, when starting Jake Spencer up forward robbed the Demons of pace, run and chase in their forward half.

He's been replaced by a Matthew Newton-Lynden Dunn combination as the second ruck change."

Edited April 15, 201015 yr by Satan

That mistake aside, it's not a bad article.

What he's saying is that if you have one decent ruckman, such as Sandilands or Jamar, you can then get away with using a mobile forward with some sort of leap as your second ruckman, and thus get another runner in the team.

For Melbourne he suggests that this provides Newton with more value, and gives players like PJ and Miller something to work at (which is ludicrous, as I highly doubt Miller would have the capacity to ruck at all). Didn't mention Martin, who fits the bill as well.

In other words, players like Spencer need to be good enough to be considered 'No. 1 Ruck'. Otherwise they're too slow and too ineffective to hold a spot anymore.

Is the model of two rucks eg. Minson and Hudson, Gardiner, King, Ottens Blake - a more traditional approach - been replaced as indicated by a preference for playing one serious ruck and one temp ruck - or is this just to deal with the inadequacies of the rucks a particular list has?

If your bench tap ruckman doesnt offer you much more than taps (no kicks around the ground)then the pinch hitting ruck may be a better option. On the other hand having a key forward running around like a ruckman isnt great for their puff when it becomes time to offer multiple leads culminating in throwing yourself in the air for a grab.

If Newton is dropped and there is an idea that Dunne will ruck for Jamar having a rest - then surely Dunne will be monstered and first use must go to the Tiges?

On balance (as a general principle) I am supportive of having two rucks. Against Richmond whose rucks are no greats I would like Spencer who had a strong game against Geelong for Scorpions. We dont lack for midfield runners and run in my submission. On their games on Sunday alone I can drop Dunne (disposal), McDonald, Skully (clangers), Bate, Newton and or Bruce to make way for Sylvia and Spencer.

A good article overall.

I think the ship has already sailed on picking up talls as rookies and hoping they'll come along. Since cox became the premier ruckman in the league I think every recruiter has had the same idea. Which has pushed the value of tall late picks earlier, probably into the mid-late draft territory.

Also, Jamar's emergence will have a fantastic side-effect on the 87 other young ruckmen on our list, they'll be able to learn from him. It must be a massive advantage for the likes of Spencer and Gawn to have a genuine ruckmen to train with and against.

On balance (as a general principle) I am supportive of having two rucks. Against Richmond whose rucks are no greats I would like Spencer who had a strong game against Geelong for Scorpions. We dont lack for midfield runners and run in my submission. On their games on Sunday alone I can drop Dunne (disposal), McDonald, Skully (clangers), Bate, Newton and or Bruce to make way for Sylvia and Spencer.

The argument, though, is that at the moment Jamar is streets in front of anyone else as our number 1 ruck. He will spend most of the game in the ruck. Therefore, if we play Spencer, he would be playing as a 'second ruck'. With his kicking skills, mobility, and general influence in the play, he wouldn't really add anything to the team. Whereas Newton/Martin would arguably provide more to the team as they could go forward, whilst not conceding a hell of a lot in the ruck department.

Players like Spencer are better suited to being the 'number 1 ruck'. For teams that don't have two clearly decent rucks (I'm talking Cox and Naitanui, e.g.), it's becoming a better idea to play a mobile forward who can pinch hit, rather than a specialist ruck who takes the spot of a runner and doesn't offer too much outside of the ruck duels.

it's becoming a better idea to play a mobile forward who can pinch hit, rather than a specialist ruck who takes the spot of a runner and doesn't offer too much outside of the ruck duels.

Is this a throw back to 3 decades ago? When you went into a game with one big man and had a tall forward go into the ruck when required. Rest your Ruckman at FF/ Doesn't seem to be a new philosophy to me?

I recall this happening with Ox, Spalding, Prymke (Ones I can recall)..correct me if I am wrong

Balls:

Will I see you at the game this weekend?

A beer in the Bullring before the game?

Balls:

Will I see you at the game this weekend?

A beer in the Bullring before the game?

Will do mate. Plenty of Beer's I am going to be in all sorts on Sunday. Big Saturday night looming. Sore heads come sunday. Drink through it

For Melbourne he suggests that this provides Newton with more value, and gives players like PJ and Miller something to work at (which is ludicrous, as I highly doubt Miller would have the capacity to ruck at all). Didn't mention Martin, who fits the bill as well.

I thought that was an odd ommission.

As for the guy providing ruck relief needing two strings to his bow, I think this is pretty self-evident.

(It's why I've argued that I don't think PJ can make it as a second ruck.)

However, I guess that the 'slant' is turning from a ruckman who can, say, go forward to a forward who can ruck.

I thought that was an odd ommission.

As for the guy providing ruck relief needing two strings to his bow, I think this is pretty self-evident.

(It's why I've argued that I don't think PJ can make it as a second ruck.)

However, I guess that the 'slant' is turning from a ruckman who can, say, go forward to a forward who can ruck.

Yeah, I did too. Martin seems to fit the bill of a forward who can ruck more so than Miller, Newton or even PJ.

Agree re: PJ. Again, like Spencer, he'd only make the team as a 'number 1 ruck' under this kind of philosophy. I just don't think he is good enough to take a spot in the team as a second ruckman to someone like Jamar, as he's close to useless as a forward.

Last year I predicted that Jamar and his agent would/should be happy to take a one-year deal at the end of 2009, given he'd had a pretty torrid, injury-hit year.

Sure, it's early days, but my prediction's looking the goods.

Balls:

Will I see you at the game this weekend?

A beer in the Bullring before the game?

Grand New Flag

Beers at The Bot after work???

Grand New Flag

Beers at The Bot after work???

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Balls_Grinter_14 and Grand New Flag: Demonland has a private messaging system, please use that for private conversations. Do this by:

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Cheers nasher!!! Step up from Demonology over here indeed!!

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