Whilst we shouldn't have to rely on the AFL's fund, the AFL should compensate clubs that they don't reward financially via the draw.

If they want to maximise revenue by giving the Pies etc plenty of Friday night games, then so be it, but clubs that don't get the prime time spots shouldn't have to miss out on revenue because of that.

Who owns the AFL?

Who owns the AFL?

Not a bad point in terms of the "shareholders" ie clubs, receiving dividends from the AFL, although I prefer the concept of compensation for poor fixturing rather than a cash handout to every club regardless of needs.

The media portrays AFL handouts as the equivilant of standing in the street begging for money, but they're usually as a result of the AFL making it more difficult to get good crowds.

Whilst clubs (including Melbourne) have struggled beyond the effect of an unfavourable draw, the AFL needs to recognise that they owe clubs who they do not allow to thrive financially via the draw.

Agreed

You have re-written history by stating that the club has been a basket case over the last few seasons. This seems similar to when Jim said that the club was hostile to women when all evidence points to the contrary, i.e. you seem to be trying to crap on the club's recent history in order to make the current situation look better.

I again have done no such thing. The club was Millions in debt.. still is. Only in a semi manageable fashion. Its direction has changed. The 'earlier ' profits " were dubious at best . Only the last year or so has seen any change in all of this..The perception of a basketcase was widely held. You alone have introduced any reference to the 'women ' situation ' in some convoluted manner to support your stance.

I thought that this was pretty obvious from my post.

Seems youre wrong

Now perhaps you would do me the same courtesy and explain you comments with similar factual reference?

Some of us talk apples..and you argue pears.

why do I bother

stuff

I continue to await your factual explanation of why you think the club was a basket case over the last handful of seasons. Your assertion that this is a widely held opinion does not explain anything. In fact, it makes a proper explantaion even more necessary.

Or, in your words,

"dont say it show me...or shut up !!"

I continue to await your factual explanation of why you think the club was a basket case over the last handful of seasons. Your assertion that this is a widely held opinion does not explain anything. In fact, it makes a proper explantaion even more necessary.

Or, in your words,

"dont say it show me...or shut up !!"

One..widely held by the football world..read AFL..and stakeholders that Melbourne were a mess. The dubious profits in the years you mention did little to hide the underlying debt that we couldnt service. Go check the clubs statements. We were in hock up and beyond our necks with no firm strategy to pay fo r it.

We were in the grand scheme of things 5 mins to extinction. had not teh hierachy of Melb changed.. the MCC a and AFl wouldnt have stepped in ..and I doubt w would have collectively put our hands in pockets.

Is there any of this you still dont get..

This club has been in a slow decline since the Mid Seventies. Leaving the MCC during the eighties meant that we were "Homeless" compared to other clubs.

I commend the boards through the years for giving up time & working hard but the Band Aids gave way a couple of years ago.

We all know it. If it wasn't for Stynes & Schwabb taking over last year & slowly turning this beautiful old dinasour into a 21st Century Sporting Business over the next few years, the AFL would have shipprd us off Fitzroy Style.

We have been a Basket Case, you only need to compare the Junction oval to AAMI Stadium or the West Coast facilities.

Hazy Shade you obviously had connections to a prior board as this is the only time you surface.

Don't feel Bad, But i wouldn't be knocking Jim Stynes & co around here. Like Ronald Dale, The "Jimma" is a legend.

We all owe him a lot....

One..widely held by the football world..read AFL..and stakeholders that Melbourne were a mess. The dubious profits in the years you mention did little to hide the underlying debt that we couldnt service. Go check the clubs statements. We were in hock up and beyond our necks with no firm strategy to pay fo r it.

We were in the grand scheme of things 5 mins to extinction. had not teh hierachy of Melb changed.. the MCC a and AFl wouldnt have stepped in ..and I doubt w would have collectively put our hands in pockets.

Is there any of this you still dont get..

"Don't say it show me."

You still haven't shown me anything. All you do to back up your unsubstantiated assertions is to make more unsubatantiated assertions.

I'lll give you another example of the kind of thing I'm looking for:

This was written prior to the forecast 1.5m operating loss of 2008 which left the club with a projected $4.5m debt at the end of that year. It provides some details about the finanical situation of the club from 2004-7 (i.e. the last handful of seasons). source

- The Club has recorded four consecutive years of profit, and has reduced debt by over 50% from $5.5m to $2.7m since 2004

- The Club recorded aggregate losses of $8.52 million between 1999-2003 (Average $1.42 million/annum)

- The Club has invested profits from recent years into both debt reduction and football department spending (increased by $500k in 2007 and again in 2008)

- The Club has increased non-AFL sourced revenue by 35% in last 4 years (Vic club average 29%)

- The Club’s annual revenue is approximately $28 million/annum or $538k/week lower than the highest revenue Club (Collingwood). Over time, this seriously compromises the ability of Melbourne to be competitive

- The financial result for 2007 ($96K profit) was adversely impacted by player injuries ($400K), reduced match related revenue ($550K) and gaming performance ($500k).

The Board considered this result to be unacceptable and took appropriate steps.

Obviously the project loss of $1.5m in 2008 was a disappointing development but this does not mean that the club was a basket case from 2004-2008. Also bear in mind that the club acheived these results without appealing for unsustainable donation revenue during this period.

I continue to await your explanation of why you (and apparently many others) think that the club has been a basket case over the last few years with bated breath. If it is so obvious that the club was a basket case for the last few sweasons, then this should be easy to prove.

Perhaps the real reason you think this way is because you (and others) are not used to having your assertions challenged?

...

I thank Jim and his board for the time that they have invested in the club with good intentions.

However I don't thank him for saving the club. What exactly hs he done to save it other than hold his cap out?

If thanks are owed, they are owed to all of the people behind the $4m worth of donations (Jim was probably one of them though!)

They are also owed to the enterprising member who helped to secure an 11th hour deal with kaspersky.

If we were $4.5m in debt when Jim took over (this includes the $1.5m forecast loss) and we have since recieved $4m in donations, then shouldn't we be only $0.5m in debt now, all other things being equal? Can the club continue to run when the donations dry up?

Jim and his board have performed better than I expected them to, but I never had high expectations of them.

To say that they have "turned the ship around" as a result of recieving $4m in unsustainable donations is silly. Particularly given that the club made profits and substantially reduced debt between 2004-07 without using up the last-ditch charity "strategy".

Any chance that we can reinstate "delicious jurrah coffee"'s abusive post? I prefer to have such things on the record.

This was written prior to the forecast 1.5m operating loss of 2008 which left the club with a projected $4.5m debt at the end of that year. It provides some details about the finanical situation of the club from 2004-7 (i.e. the last handful of seasons). source

- The Club has recorded four consecutive years of profit, and has reduced debt by over 50% from $5.5m to $2.7m since 2004

2.7 + 1.5 = 4.2

So there's 300k unaccounted for

2.7 + 1.5 = 4.2

So there's 300k unaccounted for

I was rounding up to put in Jim's favour according to the figure that he gives in this article which you mentioned earlier.

Now do you have anything of worth to contribute?

I could ask you the same thing, but I won't waste my time.

I thank Jim and his board for the time that they have invested in the club with good intentions.

However I don't thank him for saving the club. What exactly hs he done to save it other than hold his cap out?

If thanks are owed, they are owed to all of the people behind the $4m worth of donations (Jim was probably one of them though!)

They are also owed to the enterprising member who helped to secure an 11th hour deal with kaspersky.

If we were $4.5m in debt when Jim took over (this includes the $1.5m forecast loss) and we have since recieved $4m in donations, then shouldn't we be only $0.5m in debt now, all other things being equal? Can the club continue to run when the donations dry up?

Jim and his board have performed better than I expected them to, but I never had high expectations of them.

To say that they have "turned the ship around" as a result of recieving $4m in unsustainable donations is silly. Particularly given that the club made profits and substantially reduced debt between 2004-07 without using up the last-ditch charity "strategy".

Hazy Hazy Hazy- The one factor you completely miss in this whole situation over the last 18 months comes down to one word....PASSION

Jim Stynes & the new board have instilled Passion back into the supporters & the MFC.

It is Passion & hope that help drive a football club as much a any commercial venture.

Jim can ask for that Passion because he has done it all

When Jim asks us supporters to dig deep...we do it. I don't think other presidents in the past could have done that.

And that's the part that pisses you right off. Because deep down you know that is the exact answer.

Like i said, if you diss the great Jimmy Stynes around here you will get damaged...

Be off with you...

Hazy Hazy Hazy- The one factor you completely miss in this whole situation over the last 18 months comes down to one word....PASSION

Jim Stynes & the new board have instilled Passion back into the supporters & the MFC.

It is Passion & hope that help drive a football club as much a any commercial venture.

Jim can ask for that Passion because he has done it all

When Jim asks us supporters to dig deep...we do it. I don't think other presidents in the past could have done that.

And that's the part that pisses you right off. Because deep down you know that is the exact answer.

Like i said, if you diss the great Jimmy Stynes around here you will get damaged...

Be off with you...

Whatever mate - are you going to damage me?

You can't pay the bills with passion.

Clearly you give Jim a lot of credit for essentially rattling a tin, I believe that the credit belongs to all of those who out money in that tin - any board could have rattled it, and for that matter, Jim could have done his bit to raise the profile of a tin-rattle without being a boardmember.

So far, the most promising sign from Jim's board in my opinion was probably the press release about the club reintegrating with the MCC but there hasn't been any sign since that this was anything more than hot air. That is whilst the MCC had renwed (and maybe even increased?) it's financial support of the MFC there are still no signs of "proper" incorporation.

Is "passion" really the best that you can come up with?

Whatever mate - are you going to damage me?

You can't pay the bills with passion.

Clearly you give Jim a lot of credit for essentially rattling a tin, I believe that the credit belongs to all of those who out money in that tin - any board could have rattled it, and for that matter, Jim could have done his bit to raise the profile of a tin-rattle without being a boardmember.

So far, the most promising sign from Jim's board in my opinion was probably the press release about the club reintegrating with the MCC but there hasn't been any sign since that this was anything more than hot air. That is whilst the MCC had renwed (and maybe even increased?) it's financial support of the MFC there are still no signs of "proper" incorporation.

Is "passion" really the best that you can come up with?

You clearly do not understand the word passion, or the power it possesses.

Jim has done a hell of a lot over the last 18 months & if you do not want to aknowlegde that well i really don't care.

no matter what the present board have done or will do, you will denegrate it, as you have an agenda clearly.

Your alternative strategy to the current board would certainly be interesting to hear.

I still stand by the word Passion as an important ingredient in the rebuilding of this mighty club.

If all you are going to do is spout hot air then save your breath.

In the words of some guy on here "Don't say it show me."

Seems to me certain people on this forum would make really good politicians. They re-write history, mangle the language, spin a point of view to suit their own vested interests and when challenged, under cover of "cowards castle" (see keyboard in this case) they stoop to insult.

The plain fact is we are in a far better position than we have been for quite some time and in no small way, that is attributable to Jimmy, his Board, C Schwab and his management team. For goodness sake, let's talk this up, not get bogged down in one up manship and hyperbole.

Go Dees!!!!

I don't know the politics of this board and don't really care I'm like you I believe the current board have done a great job. Whilst the supporters have contributed the money, they never would have had it not been for the genuine attempt by Jimmy and the rest of the board to save this club.

I've followed this club for decades and have seen it run by some of the most incompetent management ever known, so now we have people in charge that not only love the club they also have a clue I'm not complaining.

I don't know the politics of this board and don't really care I'm like you I believe the current board have done a great job. Whilst the supporters have contributed the money, they never would have had it not been for the genuine attempt by Jimmy and the rest of the board to save this club.

I've followed this club for decades and have seen it run by some of the most incompetent management ever known, so now we have people in charge that not only love the club they also have a clue I'm not complaining.

Well said RobbieF.

If all you are going to do is spout hot air then save your breath.

In the words of some guy on here "Don't say it show me."

I asked to hear your alternative strategy to the present board, you call that Hot Air..That's a good answer.

You didn't ask anything - all you have done is make vague threats towards me, some unfounded assertions and some bleating about passion.

If your justification of the club being a basket case for the last few years starts and finishes with Junction Oval.. well, you can't exactly expect me to make any effort to explain things for you when you haven't even tried to explain them to yourself yet.

I had no idea Kyle Sandilands was a Melbourne supporter.

I guess you learn something new every day...

Go Dees

You didn't ask anything - all you have done is make vague threats towards me, some unfounded assertions and some bleating about passion.

If your justification of the club being a basket case for the last few years starts and finishes with Junction Oval.. well, you can't exactly expect me to make any effort to explain things for you when you haven't even tried to explain them to yourself yet.

Did you have ties with the old failed board? Were you part of the old failed board? (There were many so you can take your pick of which one I'm referring to.)

If not how can you justify your defence of them?

Hazy, you`re back mate?

That`s really surprising that it co-incides with someone trying to give Jimmy and the current board a rap.

Just when I was getting sick of seeing The Old Xaverian`s pathetic posts! You`ve aced him!