With all due respect, we're not going to beat Geelong.

With all due respect, we're not going to beat Geelong.

Ah, the voice of reason

Just to add fuel to the fire, I hope we play well for say the first half but get blown out of the water in the second.

We need a % decrease to ensure we finish below West Coast.

Finishing on 4 wins above West Coast is almost as useless as finishing on 5 wins, because it means we lose pick 1 (and Scully).

West Coast have already placed Kerr and Cox on ice with some mysterious injuries, so their chances of getting smashed have increased significantly.

It is actually Old 55's comment that see things as black and white. Yes Tom Scully is currently the recruiters favourite and he ticks almost all the boxes. But who's to say that pick 4 won't end up the superior midfielder. My point remains that to suggest we can't win a flag without Scully and pick 2/3 as opposed to just pick 4 is, in my opinion, seeing things too simply. As of next year our facilities will be first rate and our coaching team continues to grow. At this point in time, with the squad we will have at year's end it is more about development that it is about Tom Scully. I say this even though I don't think the club will win more than 4 games and I'm pretty sure they'll pick Tom Scully first up. We are arguing over a point that is most likely moot.

Its not a PP1 or pick 4 choice. If Pick 4 is an out and out star...great. It will help. But not having PP 1 will hurt us more than you think.

It is a moot point. And for the record Old 55 is rarely black and white but he is going grey slowly.

Finishing on 4 wins above West Coast is almost as useless as finishing on 5 wins, because it means we lose pick 1 (and Scully).

No it is not.

It means potentially pick 2 and pick 5 as opposed to pick 5. Big difference there.

And if you are worried about % against WCE, we need Geelong to rebound hard from the first bounce. % may also be important with Freo as well. Dont discount the options.

Just to add fuel to the fire, I hope we play well for say the first half but get blown out of the water in the second.

We need a % decrease to ensure we finish below West Coast.

Finishing on 4 wins above West Coast is almost as useless as finishing on 5 wins, because it means we lose pick 1 (and Scully).

West Coast have already placed Kerr and Cox on ice with some mysterious injuries, so their chances of getting smashed have increased significantly.

The Wet Toast / Shockers game in a couple of weeks will be a struggle to lose for both of them!

No it is not.

It means potentially pick 2 and pick 5 as opposed to pick 5. Big difference there.

And if you are worried about % against WCE, we need Geelong to rebound hard from the first bounce. % may also be important with Freo as well. Dont discount the options.

I said almost, not completely.

Of course picks 2 & 5 is better than pick 5, but if we want Scully, and we do, we need pick 1. No use tanking for the next 7 weeks only to miss out on pick 1. If we're gonna put ourselves in this losing position, let's get the best possible reward for it.

Percentage is also important with Freo, no doubt, but if Freo finish below us it doesn't matter a whole lot as long as we finish up on 4 wins.

I would almost prefer to avoid a spoon and have pick 2 instead of 3, by letting Freo finish below us on %, particularly if we are not looking at Morabito with our second pick, since there is no doubt Freo will take him with pick 2.

We need a % decrease to ensure we finish below West Coast.

Finishing on 4 wins above West Coast is almost as useless as finishing on 5 wins, because it means we lose pick 1 (and Scully).

West Coast have already placed Kerr and Cox on ice with some mysterious injuries, so their chances of getting smashed have increased significantly.

Jaded, I see what you're saying, but currently we are approximately 40 goals worth of percentage behind West Coast. If we both finish on 4 wins, you can be pretty sure we'll be behind them.

I said almost, not completely.

Of course picks 2 & 5 is better than pick 5..

It is not even almost then...we agree.

And we need Geelong to rebound hard on us and punish our % position.

There are too many options for the final ladder to count out Freo blithely and assume they will finish below us.

It is not even almost then...we agree.

And we need Geelong to rebound hard on us and punish our % position.

There are too many options for the final ladder to count out Freo blithely and assume they will finish below us.

Adelaide's demolition of Freo was the perfect tonic for Freo to take a significant dent in it's %.

With regard to the 'tanking issue' which has surfaced within the media in the last 48 hours (most likely due to the Mfc's upset win over Port and the 'priority pick'). I believe more focus should be put on the likes of Freo, Rich & WCE.

For the record, Melbournefc has won the last 2 games. If the media are sniffing around for tanking, it's certainly not the Mfc that's on the nose.....

For the record, Melbournefc has won the last 2 games. If the media are sniffing around for tanking, it's certainly not the Mfc that's on the nose.....

It will be when it starts to lose. The whiff has started already.

Freo are about to lose their coach and their two best players are injured and may not be back for the season.

WCE are on a rebuild and have their two best players out for the season.

Richmond have axed their coach and if they were smart will omit their two best players for the rest of the season. Pity is they dont have them.

It will be when it starts to lose. The whiff has started already.

Freo are about to lose their coach and their two best players are injured and may not be back for the season.

WCE are on a rebuild and have their two best players out for the season.

Richmond have axed their coach and if they were smart will omit their two best players for the rest of the season. Pity is they dont have them.

If the Dees lose to the Cats - which if you asked Sportsbet, it's an absolute Monty (dees $9.00 for win); Bailey would have to make changes where those players haven't performed. That is only fair. The media should acknowledge that as reasonable, it's not 'tanking'. But that's when Mfc should begin to be prudent at selection. As far as I'm concerned. Cheney, McKenzie, Bail, Newton, Valenti, PJ & Bell should all be given there 'chances' to further their football careers by playing at AFL level.

Yes Tom Scully is currently the recruiters favourite and he ticks almost all the boxes. But who's to say that pick 4 won't end up the superior midfielder. My point remains that to suggest we can't win a flag without Scully and pick 2/3 as opposed to just pick 4 is, in my opinion, seeing things too simply.

I couldn't disagree more. Stars win premierships and the best chance to recruit stars is with pick 1 and another early pick. Clearly, it would be horrendous if we lost this opportunity.

As for Scully ? You don't seem terribly familiar with him. Scully will be a star. I'd venture to say that he'd be our best midfielder now. Even a Carlton supporter on one of the forums said that Scully will be better than Murphy, Gibbs, or Kreuzer. He's a better, more rounded player than Rich. His left foot isn't quite as good as Rich's, but he has him covered in every other area. He's got better hands, is a better mark, is better on his non preferred side, and he's much much faster. And his left foot is also superb, like Rich.

There's a reason that he's been touted as no. 1 for two years and is still a lock at that position. We haven't had a star mid in the AFL era and it's no coincidence that we've not one a flag in this time.

Here we go again. People on this site are not only saying we should deliberately lose games they are now saying or even hoping we get smashed by geelong and st kilda to make our % worse! I dont believe what I am reading, let me get this clear, Rhino you want us to get smashed to lower our %. Do you often want to see the DEES smashed?

People [many people] on this site say you dont tell your players to lose, you just fix where and when people play.DO you think the players cant recognise this for what it is, just wanting to lose, tell them to put their head over the ball, go in hard, and then fix it with very visible placements so they cant win.

By the way everybody says we need a great mid[ I agree] so as day follows night we need pick 1 to get scully, WHAT PICK DID RICH GO AT?

Not 1 or was it 2 no maybe 4 gosh he mustnt be an elite mid as he didnt go at 1.

HT, I'd say us winning the past two is the reason for this sudden talk of tanking in the media as it has suddenly become an issue.

The MFC at 1-14 would be no cause to talk about tanking.

The media should acknowledge that as reasonable, it's not 'tanking'.

The issue has already been front page on the online Age and Hun in regard to MFC. Bailey got grilled on Fox about it.

45HG is right.

Here we go again. People on this site are not only saying we should deliberately lose games they are now saying or even hoping we get smashed by geelong and st kilda to make our % worse! I dont believe what I am reading, let me get this clear, Rhino you want us to get smashed to lower our %. Do you often want to see the DEES smashed?

People [many people] on this site say you dont tell your players to lose, you just fix where and when people play.DO you think the players cant recognise this for what it is, just wanting to lose, tell them to put their head over the ball, go in hard, and then fix it with very visible placements so they cant win.

By the way everybody says we need a great mid[ I agree] so as day follows night we need pick 1 to get scully, WHAT PICK DID RICH GO AT?

Not 1 or was it 2 no maybe 4 gosh he mustnt be an elite mid as he didnt go at 1.

Rich has had a promising first year but he is not an elite midfielder...yet.

This issue has been done to death on this site and you still cant work it out. Brilliant.

What--you agree that not getting Scully means that we won't win a premiership?That one player is SO MUCH BETTER than anyone else that he would make that much difference. What rubbish!

How? Just spell it out in words of one syllable so that dumb-bums like me can follow it! Drop half the players?The young ones or the old ones? Tell the players not to try?

Read what Schwab has says and tell us he's wrong about a losing culture. I blieve he's dead right.

Your missing the whole Idea, yes Scully is worth to us probably roughly almost twice what other picks may add.

He is exactly what our side is lacking in our best 22, & on top of that he is dominating his peers. A class above the rest.

The only way we can get him is to get the first pick of this draft.

Next is on top of that we would also get another elite topend pick, thus bridging the gap between our lists thin-ness, & other stronger up & coming lists.

We may well have a list that might be good enough with developement to reach in 3-4 years, 6th position. We might be Lucky if some future picks in years to come become stars who could add something to get us to top 3 or 4.

However we're staring right at the best opportunity that a club has been presented with in years & we're going to deny it?

Do me a favour donny, get a copy of our current list, delete the players who'll be gone come 2012, then form the team from it. When you've done that, tell us who the depth is for our reserves.

I couldn't disagree more. Stars win premierships and the best chance to recruit stars is with pick 1 and another early pick. Clearly, it would be horrendous if we lost this opportunity.

As for Scully ? You don't seem terribly familiar with him. Scully will be a star. I'd venture to say that he'd be our best midfielder now. Even a Carlton supporter on one of the forums said that Scully will be better than Murphy, Gibbs, or Kreuzer. He's a better, more rounded player than Rich. His left foot isn't quite as good as Rich's, but he has him covered in every other area. He's got better hands, is a better mark, is better on his non preferred side, and he's much much faster. And his left foot is also superb, like Rich.

There's a reason that he's been touted as no. 1 for two years and is still a lock at that position. We haven't had a star mid in the AFL era and it's no coincidence that we've not one a flag in this time.

Even a Carlton supporter said so, well sorry, you must be right. Now. I have never doubted his ability or my desire to see him in red and blue. However, to think that without him we are doomed to mediocrity is hyperbole. We have something like 15 top 20 picks on our list. There's a good chance that we'll add at least 2 more this year. It's now down to development. Watts, Grimes, Blease, Strauss, Petterd, Maric, Jurrah, pick 4, and even Sylvia could well end up good enough to take this club to a premeirship. We now have the facilities so there's no longer excuses. Do I want Scully? Of course but let's not overdramatise the ability of one player to win a side a premeirship.

...... but let's not overdramatise the ability of one player to win a side a premeirship.

So far you have been the only one doing it.

But you are right...it is a moot point.

So far you have been the only one doing it.

But you are right...it is a moot point.

Clearly I was answering a thread from your mate Hannabal, who surprise surprise agrees with you, he also believes that without Tom we are doomed. Then you acuse me of overdramatising his ability. I would say it's you and your mate who are overdramatising his ability. Anyway when the club only wins 4 games and selects Tom we can go back to discussing winning some games of football Now won't that be fun.

Well Rhino we finally agree on something, I dont get it[ whatever it is] And guess what if wanting your team smashed is it you can stick IT.

On saturday my wife and I will take our annual footy trip to geelong and be standing in the outer[ got the tickets]. We will be yelling and screaming every time the Dees score and yelling abuse at the umps as they make those non decisions yet again.

Will you be there? be a bit confusing, I would think wearing red and blue[ you do wear red and blue dont you] and cheering every time geelong scores, its my club you want to see smashed. And as for Rich not being an elite mid yet you are right again. Not experienced enough too early to tell, so how come everybody says Scully is elite, hasnt even played a game yet, but it seems we cant win a flag without him.

See you saturday I dont know what you look like but I will just look for someone in a DEES scarf barracking for geelong.

Anyway when the club only wins 4 games and selects Tom we can go back to discussing winning some games of football Now won't that be fun.

Why the hysterical laughing ?

If we don't get Scully we also miss out on another top 3 pick. Maybe the ramifications of blowing such an opportunity is lost on you. Scully plus pick 3 is so much greater than pick 3 and 20.

That said, I too am getting sick of banging on trying to educate the nuffy supporters that don't quite understand the value of what's on offer. Headbutting a brick wall would give me more pleasure.

Many of you don't burn deeply enough for a flag. If you did you'd want your club to give itself the best opportunity to win one. And that's all it is; an opportunity.

I've wasted my time with you.

Why the hysterical laughing ?

If we don't get Scully we also miss out on another top 3 pick. Maybe the ramifications of blowing such an opportunity is lost on you. Scully plus pick 3 is so much greater than pick 3 and 20.

That said, I too am getting sick of banging on trying to educate the nuffy supporters that don't quite understand the value of what's on offer. Headbutting a brick wall would give me more pleasure.

Many of you don't burn deeply enough for a flag. If you did you'd want your club to give itself the best opportunity to win one. And that's all it is; an opportunity.

I've wasted my time with you.

You're not the only rocket scientist who knows this, this has never been in dispute from me. Try reading my posts. I keep them relatively short so it won't take long. I want Scully as well. I know he is currently the best available. What I don't know, and nobody does, is will he be the best in 4 years time. It is because of this point that I'm not prepared to say that we won't win a premeirship without him. That is the only point I was making. But feel free to read it how you please and keep banging your head

yeah cos we are gonna beat Geelong...