Best to worst at MFC

[robbo24 66]

Browsing the internet and found this thread on BigFooty.

It would be interesting to see who the supporters on this site rate compared to others.

I will start it off, and won't mention any of the new draftees.

I will rate this on their 'best' and 'importance'

1. Jared Rivers - Our best player. Reads the ball so well and will beat his man consistently. Helps out the other defenders better than any other Melbourne player i can remember. We are are 3-4 goal better defence with him.

2. Brock Mclean - The midfield general. Tough, gets a lot of the ball and uses it well.

3. James McDonald - Always gives 100%. Tough at the ball and inspiring.

4. Brad Green - Been preceived as 'soft' but in the last 2 years has really stood up all over the ground. Can win the game off his own boot, and take a match winning mark on the last line of defence. Should have been B&F this year.

5. Aaron Davey - Made the forward pocket role what it is today. Plays his best when up forward. Picking up Jetta and Bennell will keep Flash up the ground.

6. Cameron Bruce - Was once an elite player in the competition. Now, he is slow, soft, can't kick and living on reputation. Sorry, but its true.

7. Colin Garland - Is going to be huge for us. Whether it be at Full Back or Full Forward, he is tall, quick and getting experience.

8. Russell Robertson - On the decline, but on his day he is still one of the most exciting and damaging forwards in the AFL

9. Paul Johnson - Not a true ruckman, but his work around the ground and his skills below his knees are fantastic for such a big man.

10. Brad Miller - Lucky to be on our list after many lean years, but really stood up last year to be a forward target. He has added consistency to his game, but i hope we do find some1 better.

11. Brent Moloney - Seems to always be injured so we forget what he can do. Is tough and gets a lot of the ball. Has been a tad one-dimensional in the past, but i hope that can change.

12. Matthew Whelan - Is getting on, but he is a true defender. Is tough, accountable and uses the ball well.

13. Simon Buckley - Came out of nowhere last year. Takes the opposition on, and his very very quick. His skills need improving, but he could be anything.

14. Lynden Dunn - Recruited as a Key forward, but has been played as a tagger and defender over the last 1 1/2 years. I feel he is being wasted in these roles.

15. Paul Wheatley - Has a great kick, but only really plays well when Melbourne play bad. Just an average player at a bad time.

16. Colin Sylvia - My favorite player who just continues to disappoint. Finally having his first full pre season. But needs to have a great year. Could be an explosive HFF or could let us down yet again.

17. Michael Newton - The full forward we so desperately need. Has struggled but also has been given a 2 year contract to prove himself. Better hurry up coz Jack Watts is coming!!!!

18. James Frawley - Will be fighting for a spot. Have we wasted another very high draft pick here?

19. Cale Morton - Will be right at the top of this list after this year. Looked like he belonged towards the end of '08, and if his skills improve will be a MASSIVE player for us.

20. Matthew Warnock - Could be a lot higher on the list, but could also be lower. He did well last year with Garland, but Rivers, Frawley, Garland, Martin and Warnock probably won't play all at once

21. Matthew Bate - Burst onto the scene with a dangerous left foot. Seems to need his teammates to be playing well for him to play well. He will be dangerous with some confidence.

22. Austin Wonaemirri - IMO will be a flash in the pan. Bit of a cult following, but doesn't seem to have the tricks of Davey / Rioli etc.

23. Ricky Petterd - Another who started off well but suffered injury. Needs to bulk up but will be a very good 10 + year player with us.

24. Jack Grimes - Only played 1 AFL game coming back from injury and didn't do anything special. Towards the end of the season i saw him at Sandy a few times and he looked a class above. At such a young age he is a player to watch.

25. Nathan Jones - Slow, can't kick, thinks he can take anybody on and beat them. Looks like he was a bully in the juniors and is trying to do the same now. Having Mclean and Moloney back in the midfield will make life easier for Jones.

26. Stefan Martin - First year on the list and looked good. Tall and quick. But if everybody on our list is fit then i don't see a spot for him.

27. Addam Maric - Had school commitments but looked to have a cool head when the ball was in his hands. We have so many small forwards now, i think Maric will be used as a midfielder in years to come.

28. Daniel Bell - Quick, good user of the ball, but is a dumb footballer with no awareness. Plays 1-2 good games a year but other than that, not great.

29. Clint Bartram - Good runner. Ordinary footballer.

30. Kyle Cheney - Late draft pick, and played a handful of 1's games at Sandy. Will be pushing for a senior game this year. If he gets a game, i think our season may already be over.

31. Tom McNamara - Still extremely young.

32. Mark Jamar - Gives away stupid frees. Can't kick a football to save his life, handballs at all costs and the opposition are onto him.

33. John Meesen - Terrible

Rookies - Valenti -If promoted, he should walk straight into the team. Is tough, smart, uses the ball wall, holds his own in a tackle and is extremely exciting. Would be top 15 on my list.

Zomer - Only saw him live once and that was in the NAB Cup. He marked really well but struggled to kick. Like most talls, will take a few years to develop. Would be towards the bottom of my list.

cant think of the other rookies who have been on our list for over a year...

[titan_uranus 25,042]

Can't believe Newton goes above Morton and Bate. That's ridiculous.

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

i dont think theres to much difference between our best and worst, thats the whole problem with the club at the moment.

[robbo24 66]

Can't believe Newton goes above Morton and Bate. That's ridiculous.

Bate is no further ahead than Newton. He had a shocking year. and Morton will be way above both of these players in years to come

[Jarka 767]

Grats on the attempt at one of these, difficult to do and you're bound to upset people, which is what internet forums are all about I guess...Nice attempt though.

I'll get the ball rolling

I think you have both PJ and Dunn too high, specifically Dunn. I just can't see him being number 14, in fact I think he'll struggle to break into the team going forward once guys like Blease, Strauss and co mature

[montasaurus 0]

I think you have both PJ and Dunn too high, specifically Dunn. I just can't see him being number 14, in fact I think he'll struggle to break into the team going forward once guys like Blease, Strauss and co mature

In Dunns current role in the middle i agree, however I still hold hope for him as a forward. If he can fire as a forward his place at 14 is warrented, keep in mind he is still very young and could yet develop. he has been a proven goal kicker at times (yes patchy and not enough) but can find the ball forward and makes a target.

I have mentioned before that I hope his role in the middle is purely development and a result of injury holes in the list over the last couple of years rather then where he is at as a player.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I would hope the rankings would be considerably different by seasons end to reflect the changing of the guard as some of our younger players rise above the existing players and a few senior players retire.

The only message is from our Best to Worst is that we are not good enough against other teams.

With Robbo at 8, Beamer at 11 and Dunn at 14, is further proof required.

Also those who are the "best" may not necessarily be the most "important" to the side.

BTW, comments on Bruce undermine any substance on the initial post. He was never elite and amazing that as our current B&F holder that he is slow, soft, can't kick and living on reputation. Still ranks him at No 6 though. MFC is in dire straits indeed.

[robbo24 66]

BTW, comments on Bruce undermine any substance on the initial post. He was never elite and amazing that as our current B&F holder that he is slow, soft, can't kick and living on reputation. Still ranks him at No 6 though. MFC is in dire straits indeed.

[jacey 333]

Interesting read on different views on players but IMO

5. Aaron Davey. Don't think he should be that high. Goes missing far too often for my liking. He shows flash here and there but IMO that's not good enough for his talent. He should be at another level already.

13. Simon Buckley. I like him but he can really go both ways this year and his career. Could be a real player with his physical attributes or he could fall away and be one of those good athletes/poor footballer.

17. Michael Newton. 17 is nearly about as generous as MFC offering him 2 years. (Nearly)

20. Matthew Warnock. Top 4 in B+F. Shut down gun KPP with limited help from midfield. Martin, Frawley must play real well to push him out.

21. Matthew Bate. Short memories. He had a late start but his middle of the year was good. He had an injury to his hand late and played pathetically. Everyone has minor injuries so Bate must play thru it and I'm predicting big things from him.

22. Austin Wonaemirri n Addam Maric. It'll be interesting to see where they'll end up but I'll like to see one of these two use their footskills and become a rebounding defender.

25. Nathan Jones - Good solid player. He'll get better and be one of those underrated players the media always talk about. Not the stars but maybe the standing of a Daniel Cross or a Scott Burns in the past.

[e25 5]

Besides the constructive criticism i'm getting, is anybody willing to give their list?

I thought about it, but I'm still not sure what the players are being ranked on.

In my view its one or the other.

[Guest Schtacker]

Very harsh on Jones, I m really dumbfounded as to why he cops so much flack - particularly those who criticise the fact he tries to bust through tackles - this guy is still very young and he will learn how to refine his trade... I have mentioned this before but look at PChapman - when he gets tackled he kind of ducks in his knees a bit, not the head/shoulders so the arm of the bloke tackling him automatically slips up over his back and he either slips out of it or gets taken high and a free kick. This is the type of thing players master with experience, and I would be disgusted if anybody tried to coach Jones into not taking on tackles. Jones' best asset is of course his work in the packs which is already at a very high level. Scott west is an excellent bloke to be around this guy and IMO he will be one of our best for the next decade'

[Trisul 664]

I'll have a go ... Three comment towards the selections:

1. 'Importance' for 2009 only.

2. My understanding of the 2008 b&f voting. That is, if they polled they were doing what they were asked. (where applicable)

3. 'Best' that they are willing and able to perform at over the full season.

1. Brock Mclean

2. Jared Rivers

3. Michael Newton

4. Austin Wonaemirri

5. Cameron Bruce

6. James McDonald

7. Matthew Warnock

8. Colin Sylvia

9. Brad Miller

10. Aaron Davey

11. Clint Bartram

12. Nathan Jones

13. Cale Morton

14. Brad Green

15. Lynden Dunn

16. Matthew Bate

17. Colin Garland

18. Brent Moloney

19. Paul Johnson

20. Paul Wheatley

21. Matthew Whelan

23. Simon Buckley

24. James Frawley

25. Stefan Martin

26. Daniel Bell

27. Jack Grimes

28. Addam Maric

29. Mark Jamar

30. Russell Robertson

31. Kyle Cheney

32. Tom McNamara

33. John Meesen

/flamesuit on

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

I'll have a go ... Three comment towards the selections:

1. 'Importance' for 2009 only.

2. My understanding of the 2008 b&f voting. That is, if they polled they were doing what they were asked. (where applicable)

3. 'Best' that they are willing and able to perform at over the full season.

1. Brock Mclean

2. Jared Rivers

3. Michael Newton

4. Austin Wonaemirri

5. Cameron Bruce

6. James McDonald

7. Matthew Warnock

8. Colin Sylvia

9. Brad Miller

10. Aaron Davey

11. Clint Bartram

12. Nathan Jones

13. Cale Morton

14. Brad Green

15. Lynden Dunn

16. Matthew Bate

17. Colin Garland

18. Brent Moloney

19. Paul Johnson

20. Paul Wheatley

21. Matthew Whelan

23. Simon Buckley

24. James Frawley

25. Stefan Martin

26. Daniel Bell

27. Jack Grimes

28. Addam Maric

29. Mark Jamar

30. Russell Robertson

31. Kyle Cheney

32. Tom McNamara

33. John Meesen

/flamesuit on

newton at 3 is absolute insanity, you are joking.

[e25 5]

newton at 3 is absolute insanity, you are joking.

It really depends on what the players are being rated on, & for me that's still not clear.

If you're talking about importance then Newton can be justified at 3, as it is important for MFC to have a player step up & kick goals in the forward line.

But if you're rating the best, then he's not in the top 10. And if last year's B&F is a guide, how can he poll in the top 20 even?

I'm not trying to be critical though, I just think the guidelines for these rankings need to be clarified.

At the moment both lists seem (to met at least) to be a combination of players that should do well based on past performance & that we hope do well in spite of their track record. One or the other please.

[Roost It 1,434]

I'll have ago at a list of the best. As I see it.

1. Brock Mclean - If he stays on the park he will be the likely B&F winner in 09 and captain in 2010.

2. Cam Bruce - best and fairest winner- shouldn't have to say more but will. Poor disposal let him down at times last year. Other than that he was still our most valuable player. More touches than any other. Others criticism of him shows little understanding of the game. He actually wins plenty of his own ball and although not an enforcer he isn't soft.

3. Brad Green - would of been happy to trade him for pick 16 but there's no denying he's become a determined, strong, brave and classy player.

4. Cale Morton - For an 18 year old he ripped it apart last year, will be an excellent player in the near future.

5. Colin Garland - Claver, good skills, knows where to be, punches above his weight, just ask Buddy. Could well become a leader in the future.

6. Brad Miller - stepped up last year and plays with a real determination that I admire. Not the best forward in the land but without any help held his own and plays for the jumper. Can't ask for anymore than that. Needs another good year.

7.Colin Sylvia - If it's true that he "trained the house down" Colin could well be a real bolter this year. Fingers well and truly crossed as I'm a big fan.

8. Jared Rivers - Again if it's true that he's training and fit he'll climb much higher, needs to play some footy to show he still has it, which I'm sure he still has.

9. James McDonald - Very happy to see our team run out behind this guy. Smart, tough as they come, gives it everything, will lead with his heart on his sleave. Has the game past him by, a little, but this will be an honour he well deserves. Let's hope his young team mates can learn from him.

10.Brent Moloney - Needs a few more tricks but leaves nothing on the park. Please Brent, don't get injured!

11. Nathan Jones - With support should become a valuable member of our midfield. Last year would have been very tough for him. However I think it wouldh've been very good for his development. He certainly knows what it takes to play AFL. I think we'll find his resolve was hardened over the last 12 months, will enjoy having Brock and Brent next to him, And who wouldn't?

12. Aaron Davey - Consistency a problem but is one of our few potential match winners. With good coaching and plenty of tiime up forward is due a good year, maybe even a great one.

13. Simon Buckley - strong, fierce, determined, fast and just seems to have what it takes. Needs to learn some detail but could be a real beauty.

14. Lynden Dunn - I'm calling 08 a development year for Lynden. Think he should play forward/Midfield and pick up the opposing sides most attacking HB flanker. I have the feeling this is the role he's being groomed for already. I think Heath Shaw's nightmares are going to have Lynden in them in the not too distant future.

15. Matthew Bate - Has shown glimpse of what he is capable of and if he produces that on a regular basis should become a very important player for us. He's got good hands, a booming kick and needs a good player to mind him.

16. Jack Watts - I know he hasn't played a game but he's training with us which in my opinion puts him ahead of many on our list.

17. Matthew Whelan - tough, strong, dependable and if fit should give us 2 -3 more solid seasons. His dash and strength has been sorely missed

18. Matthew Warnock - Given some very harrowing assignments last season and rarely left the ground a beaten man. A solid pre season and some midfield support should see him continue in that vain this year.

19. Stef Martin - I'm a fan and reckon he could turn out to be a revelation over the next few years. Needs 2 -3 more years in the system before we see his best. Could also see him as a future forward option Has time and space which is a huge plus. He also runs like the wind.

20. Jack Grimes - On reputation alone he's in my top 20. If you believe any of the hype this kids a monty to be a 10 year player for the club.

21. Adam Maric - Shows plenty of what this club really needs. CLASS. I really think this kids going to be something special. Appears his pre season's been interrupted which is a real pity. We may have to wait a few months to see him back in the team. I think the wait will be well worth it.

22. Paul Johnson - Not as big a fan as some but I do like his style. Gives it his all and will probably keep improving over the next few years, probably unlucky to be this low on the list.

23. Russell Robertson - I fear that he's finished at the top level. I'm very happy to be proved wrong.

24. Austin Wonamaerri - Keep improving Wona because we all love you. Has that ability to get excited and get us excited. In this day and age he's a breath of fresh air and I really hope he'll eek out a position in our best 22 over the next few years.

25. James Frawley - Hasn't performed yet but I fully expect James to become a member of our next premeirship backline. Has the pedigree and shows enough for me to believe he has a real future at the club.

26. Clint Bartram - Is he good enough? Time will tell. Certainly had a great year first up, and I'm yet to form an opinion on him. However, I'm not sure he fits in to our skilled, fast future.

27. Daniel Bell - Not out of the question that he could improve markedly and leave some people around here with egg on their face, but probably won't.

28. Ricky Petterd - Have I missed something. The handful of games have been sadly over shadowed by injury. Let's hope he can lift his output to match his reputation around here.

29. Paul Wheatley - Don't expect him to be anywhere near the top 22 when we challenge again.

30. Micheal Newton - It's all up to Micheal. Another who needs to play the house down instead of training the house down.

31. Mark Jamar - See above. Although to be fair, The Russian gives it his all and is unfairly criticied at times.

McNamara, Cheney and Meesen - Jury is out on the first 2, Jury has already hung the 3rd guy. Let's hope they all turn out to be great players. You Know what, let's hope one of them becomes a regular this year.

[Trisul 664]

Davey got 20 votes in 19 games, Newton got 4 in 6. Yes, Davey had an ordinary year (ed: heh, position 20 as it happens though). Shrug. It is why Batram's way up there though. Just posting in the spirit of having a crack with some take em or leave em background riders.

[Gippy Dee 48]

I think you have both PJ and Dunn too high, specifically Dunn. I just can't see him being number 14, in fact I think he'll struggle to break into the team going forward once guys like Blease, Strauss and co mature

Whats wrong with PJ? I think he is extremely important to our team.

Gippy

[montasaurus 0]

8. Jared Rivers - Again if it's true that he's training and fit he'll climb much higher, needs to play some footy to show he still has it, which I'm sure he still has.

10.Brent Moloney - Needs a few more tricks but leaves nothing on the park. Please Brent, don't get injured!

16. Jack Watts - I know he hasn't played a game but he's training with us which in my opinion puts him ahead of many on our list.

23. Russell Robertson - I fear that he's finished at the top level. I'm very happy to be proved wrong.

Roostit, as a best list i will have to pull you up on a couple but I would have some of these guys on a most important list.

Rivers - has not really played in 3yrs. I rate this guy as high as anyone but the fact is he is about to start a new career with us and there is no way he is currently in our top 10 players. If he has a good 6-10 games before mid season then he would have earned his spot on this list.

Moloney - Ditto as above

Watts - assuming we are talking 09 (which is all we can with the 09 list) I would say there are 20 players ahead of him now as it is unlikely he will do anymore then have a taste this year. Untried = impossible to be in the top 16. He needs runs on the board.

Robertson - Following the logic you have rivers and moloney on prev glory and ability should be top 10, also if its importance he should be top 5. With neitz gone and only miller standing up last year we need him more then anybody to stand up and kick goals.

I would have had PJ also a bit higher on both best and most important lists.

Otherwise not a bad effort.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Roostit, as a best list i will have to pull you up on a couple but I would have some of these guys on a most important list.

Rivers - has not really played in 3yrs. I rate this guy as high as anyone but the fact is he is about to start a new career with us and there is no way he is currently in our top 10 players. If he has a good 6-10 games before mid season then he would have earned his spot on this list.

Moloney - Ditto as above

Watts - assuming we are talking 09 (which is all we can with the 09 list) I would say there are 20 players ahead of him now as it is unlikely he will do anymore then have a taste this year. Untried = impossible to be in the top 16. He needs runs on the board.

Robertson - Following the logic you have rivers and moloney on prev glory and ability should be top 10, also if its importance he should be top 5. With neitz gone and only miller standing up last year we need him more then anybody to stand up and kick goals.

Rivers has missed two years not three but your concerns about where he is at are reasonable.

Robbo has struggled with form and injury for the past three years. With the way the game has changed, Robbo is going to struggle more than ever given his lack of second effort and on the ground mobility. At best he is likely to be fit from injury near the middle of the season. You have to your fingers crossed his achilles holds up. IMO its his final year. As a result he is no where near top 5 in either the best or importance and # 23 is about right for him.

Interesting about Watts. At this point in time he is probably about 22-23 (with a bullet) in ranking our best. In terms of importance, I'd rank him top 5. This is the player who if he does fulfil his potential that you build champion sides with and around him.

[montasaurus 0]

Interesting about Watts. At this point in time he is probably about 22-23 (with a bullet) in ranking our best. In terms of importance, I'd rank him top 5. This is the player who if he does fulfil his potential that you build champion sides with and around him.

Post 09 I agree with you, but I think for the 09 season due to external issues (school, school footy, age, development etc) I would be suprised if he plays more then 10 games, great if he does. Based on this, his importance this season would have to equal his ranking of 22-23 at this point. Only if he delivers beyond 10 games will his importance (on the field) improve. I would suggest grimes, strauss, bennell, Jurrah & co will be just as important, potentially more at this point in time for 09 as they have the potential to be 20 game players for us in 09. blease and watts unlikely. Past 09 all this changes.

[Jarka 767]

Whats wrong with PJ? I think he is extremely important to our team.

Gippy

This thread is about 'best to worst' not who is most important to the team.

I don't think PJ is in the top 10 best players at the club, I have him behind McLean, Bruce, Green, Morton, Rivers, Robertson, Davey, Miller, Jones, Bate and a couple of others.

Who at of that list above do you think PJ is better than?

[mo64 5,880]

I will rate this on their 'best' and 'importance'

32. Mark Jamar - Gives away stupid frees. Can't kick a football to save his life, handballs at all costs and the opposition are onto him.

In terms of importance, Jamar would probably rank in the top 10. I don't rate him as a footballer, but he's clearly our most competitive ruckman.

PJ is overrated in my opinion. People get caught up with his physical attributes, but he has yet to dominate a game as either a ruckman or a key forward.

Meesen and Spencer are unknown quantities, and that's being kind, hence Jamar becomes extremely important to the make up of our side.

[Roost It 1,434]

Roostit, as a best list i will have to pull you up on a couple but I would have some of these guys on a most important list.

Rivers - has not really played in 3yrs. I rate this guy as high as anyone but the fact is he is about to start a new career with us and there is no way he is currently in our top 10 players. If he has a good 6-10 games before mid season then he would have earned his spot on this list.

Moloney - Ditto as above

Watts - assuming we are talking 09 (which is all we can with the 09 list) I would say there are 20 players ahead of him now as it is unlikely he will do anymore then have a taste this year. Untried = impossible to be in the top 16. He needs runs on the board.

Robertson - Following the logic you have rivers and moloney on prev glory and ability should be top 10, also if its importance he should be top 5. With neitz gone and only miller standing up last year we need him more then anybody to stand up and kick goals.

I would have had PJ also a bit higher on both best and most important lists.

Otherwise not a bad effort.

I see your point but in my opinion Rivers still goes top 10 in our best list

Watts - easily top 20 on our best, regardless of whether he has played or not, feel free to find 20 better players on our list - no easy feat!

With Robbo I took into account that he is well past his best, something both Moloney and Rivers potentially are not.

PJ could be higher but he's no star.

Doing this list made one point terribly clear - Our list is weak - Let's hope the recruits live up to expectations.

[montasaurus 0]

Doing this list made one point terribly clear - Our list is weak - Let's hope the recruits live up to expectations.

And the guys who have been below their best for a while, will need to rekindle some of their prev form/potential.

I take your point about watts and yes on paper he is probably in the top 3-4 without playing a game. But for 09 his impact on the game will likely be measured thus we need to look at others for 09.

Moloney, Rivers, Brock, sylvia etc are the others. If these 4 all play 20+ games and stay fit we will be a lot more competative then what people think.

[Roost It 1,434]

Moloney, Rivers, Brock, Sylvia etc are the others. If these 4 all play 20+ games and stay fit we will be a lot more competative then what people think.

Dunn, Bate, Davey, Whelan, Rivers and we'll look ok