Moved from the Training thread

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Long post warning.

I can't believe people are keen for us to play real matches way out there. I'd be incredibly disappointed if that ever happens. The only way I'd ever contemplate supporting it is if it was to force the MCC's hand for a better deal, and then only short term, hope it doesn't come to that.

Do you play golf ? Fish ? Thousands upon thousands of people manage to get 'way out there' and well beyond every single weekend. Have you've attended all our home games against freo (what a great win), port, and the like? I ask because alot of people haven't - and that has cost the club significant monies and opportunities (ie rookies cost, etc). It's the same kind of scenario (granted, without the finishing - yet) as at Geelong where they generate 600k per game with crowd numbers that we'd only make a modest profit on (if that) at the 'G.

The attitude that the MCC is only good for shafting towards our own ends ... isn't going to get us far.

If anything, the MCC might be more inclined to embrace us / give us a better overall deal if we did things like:

-Re-shaping the supporter base towards youth - hello Casey. Giving them (and us) future opportunity for sustained large crowds.

-Promoting the team. Seeing Demon ads on telly (remember them?) is one thing but having them play down the road, train down the road, promote local events and facilities and support community based social programmes is worth vastly more than that in terms of NEW members/attendees.

-Reducing our yearly match day requirement . Short/medium term - giving them wriggle room to maixmise $ - QPQ.

-Supporting the team. There are only so many facilities available and affordable in the CBD over the summer and our efforts to juggle them over the years have frankly been a joke. Casey has, or will shortly have, every single thing we need to *properly* support and prepare the players.

And across all of the above:

-Long term fiscal stability. We're getting the deal at Casey, for 30 years, for bugger all dollar outlay. Our highest 'cost', community involvement, will feed our growth/income.

I know your post was pointed more at playing games at Casey but it's a package deal IMO such that it would be negligent of us not to do so.

Summary: You're talking winner talk. While the MFC is turning the corner, ticking the boxes, it's very existance is still threatened if things turn pear-shaped (and thank god this whole process has had some time to grow prior to the recent economic problems). We are in no position what-so-ever to force anyone's hand. We can however embrace our club, pres, board, footy dept and growing community.

~

Just seen your post of 10:07 PM. Straight up I've lived about 15 minutes drive (sideways and south) from Casey Fields for the past 3 years. All the years prior I was an inner-eastern suburbanite and you know what? I'd LOVE the community aspect of occasionally going to see Melbourne at CF if I was still there. But I've said enough. It's clear to me that you can see the benefits. You just dont care. It would be simply be too much personal effort for a couple of games a year. That and it's better we hold onto our pride at all costs - even the death of the club.

Oh and btw, I drove from Clifton Hill to my place in 50 minutes the other day.

-Re-shaping the supporter base towards youth - hello Casey. Giving them (and us) future opportunity for sustained large crowds.

...and sustaining our club's ontoward financial viability for future success!

I suppose the other option is to play all home games at the MCG until we are insolvent. Then we can cater for the crowds in western sydney or Tassie.

A 3rd AFL venue in melbourne is a must for when the 17th+18th teams come in. Otherwise get used to the drive to geelong or watching home games on tv played interstate (Canberra, NT, TAS etc)

I suppose the other option is to play all home games at the MCG until we are insolvent. Then we can cater for the crowds in western sydney or Tassie.

A 3rd AFL venue in melbourne is a must for when the 17th+18th teams come in. Otherwise get used to the drive to geelong or watching home games on tv played interstate (Canberra, NT, TAS etc)

No Monty the other option is to get a better deal out of the MCC. Last year at the Freo game they closed the upper levels to save costs, this and a better deal (Collingwood has a better deal than us) could see us making profits at home. The AFL is aware that the smaller drawing clubs are getting screwed by the MCC and Docklands and are finally helping us to obtain a better deal. Give this a chance before you throw our history and identity out the window.

If we play 3-4 games a year at Casey along with our obligatory AFL bullyboy home game at Docklands/ Canberra or Gold Coast that's pretty much HALF our home games away from the G. Not good enough, Why not become the Hobart or Darwin Demons if we can't survive at the G.

It mightn't be chockablock with traffic out there yet but it sure as hell will be when 100,000 or how ever many people move in.

If a 20,000 seat stadium is to be built it MUST be reasonably central. I've mentioned the MCC ovals in South Yarra before, not far from the station and much easier for EVERYONE to get to.

Casey is a great initiative as a training base, mostly for summer, but anyone who thinks we should play premiership matches out there is kidding themselves

Casey is a great initiative as a training base, mostly for summer, but anyone who thinks we should play premiership matches out there is kidding themselves

Have you been to Casey Fields?

Moved from the Training thread

====

Long post warning.

Do you play golf ? Fish ? Thousands upon thousands of people manage to get 'way out there' and well beyond every single weekend. Have you've attended all our home games against freo (what a great win), port, and the like? I ask because alot of people haven't - and that has cost the club significant monies and opportunities (ie rookies cost, etc). It's the same kind of scenario (granted, without the finishing - yet) as at Geelong where they generate 600k per game with crowd numbers that we'd only make a modest profit on (if that) at the 'G.

The attitude that the MCC is only good for shafting towards our own ends ... isn't going to get us far.

If anything, the MCC might be more inclined to embrace us / give us a better overall deal if we did things like:

-Re-shaping the supporter base towards youth - hello Casey. Giving them (and us) future opportunity for sustained large crowds.

-Promoting the team. Seeing Demon ads on telly (remember them?) is one thing but having them play down the road, train down the road, promote local events and facilities and support community based social programmes is worth vastly more than that in terms of NEW members/attendees.

-Reducing our yearly match day requirement . Short/medium term - giving them wriggle room to maixmise $ - QPQ.

-Supporting the team. There are only so many facilities available and affordable in the CBD over the summer and our efforts to juggle them over the years have frankly been a joke. Casey has, or will shortly have, every single thing we need to *properly* support and prepare the players.

And across all of the above:

-Long term fiscal stability. We're getting the deal at Casey, for 30 years, for bugger all dollar outlay. Our highest 'cost', community involvement, will feed our growth/income.

I know your post was pointed more at playing games at Casey but it's a package deal IMO such that it would be negligent of us not to do so.

Summary: You're talking winner talk. While the MFC is turning the corner, ticking the boxes, it's very existance is still threatened if things turn pear-shaped (and thank god this whole process has had some time to grow prior to the recent economic problems). We are in no position what-so-ever to force anyone's hand. We can however embrace our club, pres, board, footy dept and growing community.

~

Just seen your post of 10:07 PM. Straight up I've lived about 15 minutes drive (sideways and south) from Casey Fields for the past 3 years. All the years prior I was an inner-eastern suburbanite and you know what? I'd LOVE the community aspect of occasionally going to see Melbourne at CF if I was still there. But I've said enough. It's clear to me that you can see the benefits. You just dont care. It would be simply be too much personal effort for a couple of games a year. That and it's better we hold onto our pride at all costs - even the death of the club.

Oh and btw, I drove from Clifton Hill to my place in 50 minutes the other day.

Nice holier than thou attitude Trident. Explain to me where you got this "package deal" idea, first I've heard of it. I've got no problem with training out there and forming links with the community, but other than NAB cup games I don't want us to play out there because I BELIEVE we'd all be looking back in 20 years saying "what a monumental cockup"

For your information smartarz I was at every game at the G last year, and the debt demo luncheon (not for the bargain basement $500 either), don't question my commitment just because I disagree with you.

Luckily for me Schwabby has been stressing the importance of our relationship with the G so I don't think the club is planning on this imaginary made up plan you lot have

"Its clear to me you can see the benefits. You just don't care". It would simply be too much effort for a couple of games a year." You arrogant tool. I work 60 hours a week, sometimes with an extra 3 hours travel a day on top, and my parents in the country whinge constantly about never seeing me in winter. There's only so many hours in a week Trident and yes I couldn't be shagged driving 2 hours each way to the footy. I'd seriously consider not getting a membership and getting foxtel instesd and I don't think I'd be alone

Have you been to Casey Fields?

No what does that matter

No what does that matter

No, but it might help you gain a little more perspective about the place.

Perspective? I've got nothing against the place, as I've said I think training and getting involved with the community out there is a good idea, playing games on the other hand is a bad idea. As Fatty pointed out thwe arguements for playing at CF are exactly the same arguements that led to the creation of Waverly and we all know how that ended.

A boutique stadium is a great idea and could guarentee the survival of all Melbourne clubs, but it needs to be central. Isolating lots of supporters by moving to any fringe area in Melbourne won't work. The AFL should build it's own stadium and us, the roos, saints and doggies could play a few games a year there, even the Hawks but I think they're already destined for Hobart.

Perspective? I've got nothing against the place, as I've said I think training and getting involved with the community out there is a good idea, playing games on the other hand is a bad idea. As Fatty pointed out thwe arguements for playing at CF are exactly the same arguements that led to the creation of Waverly and we all know how that ended.

A boutique stadium is a great idea and could guarentee the survival of all Melbourne clubs, but it needs to be central. Isolating lots of supporters by moving to any fringe area in Melbourne won't work. The AFL should build it's own stadium and us, the roos, saints and doggies could play a few games a year there, even the Hawks but I think they're already destined for Hobart.

I hear what you're saying, but a huge problem for Melbourne at the moment is that with their current supporter base they are not sustainable. More worrying is that lack of young supporters and hence the club's research into why young people follow certain teams. If the Casey market can be tapped into successfully it really could a be a significant boost in arm for the club, such a boost may not come by just training down there.

Melbourne won't and will never leave the MCG. The idea (which is all it is at the moment) would be to play two, three or maybe four games at a boutique stadium. Moreover, we're talking Cranbourne here and not Tasmania or the Gold Coast so to think that the Melbourne-based supporters will be missing out so much is a bit rich.

Sigh.

Nice holier than thou attitude Trident. Explain to me where you got this "package deal" idea, first I've heard of it.

You missed the InMyOpinion there or ignored it?

I've got no problem with training out there and forming links with the community, but other than NAB cup games I don't want us to play out there because I BELIEVE we'd all be looking back in 20 years saying "what a monumental cockup"

Cool, that's your opinion and fair enough. It's NOT what you said earlier: "I couldn't give a RA if Casey has the best facilities in the world, it's in the middle of butt fuch nowhere"

For your information smartarz I was at every game at the G last year, and the debt demo luncheon (not for the bargain basement $500 either), don't question my commitment just because I disagree with you.

That's great, it really is (so was I). My point however still stands - people aren't turning up to those games in anywhere remotely near enough numbers. I'm not questioning your commitment based on disagreeing with you, see below.

"Its clear to me you can see the benefits. You just don't care". It would simply be too much effort for a couple of games a year." You arrogant tool. I work 60 hours a week, sometimes with an extra 3 hours travel a day on top, and my parents in the country whinge constantly about never seeing me in winter. There's only so many hours in a week Trident and yes I couldn't be shagged driving 2 hours each way to the footy. I'd seriously consider not getting a membership and getting foxtel instesd and I don't think I'd be alone

You said it: "It's already an effort to get to the G, I won't be travelling an extra hour."

Lot's of people work 60 hour weeks (me again). Lot's of people travel 3+hrs a day to do so (me again).

No Monty the other option is to get a better deal out of the MCC.

If a 20,000 seat stadium is to be built it MUST be reasonably central. I've mentioned the MCC ovals in South Yarra before, not far from the station and much easier for EVERYONE to get to.

Casey is a great initiative as a training base, mostly for summer, but anyone who thinks we should play premiership matches out there is kidding themselves

The AFL's going to build this stadium? After their last attempt? How much will the South Yarra land cost? How is the deal going to benefit the MFC unless we get (lucky and get) all Essendon-esque cozy? How is this stadium suddenly going to make all the people who DONT go to the Freo/Port etc games suddenly materialise?

IMO (<--) anyone who thinks we can pull the above kind of deal out of our 'arz' is kidding themselves.

A boutique stadium is a great idea and could guarentee the survival of all Melbourne clubs, but it needs to be central.

Apparently the population 'centre' of Melbourne is around Glen Waverley and moving eastwards every year.

Not sure where I read that - probably on here.

i am yet to know where i stand on this issue, but the way i see it is this:

if we really want to have a BIG impact in casey, playing a couple of games there would be by far the best way to do it.

if i had a football team training in my suburb/town, i wouldnt be that fased by it. however, if they played some games there, i would be extremely exited and would take interest.

the benefits of playing two or three games at casey are both: the benefit of making a gameday profit there as opposed to a loss at the G, and also that it will really have an impact on the town of casey.

secondly, i dont see too many hawthorn supporters complaining at the moment. If anything, they are not losing supporters. They train away from Hawthorn now and play 4 of their games in Tassie. They have just won the Grand Final and are posting a profit that we could only dream about.

Now, there is a possibility that we could create an oppurtunity similar to this, however, the huge benefit of Casey over Tasmania, is that it is closer to home.

I dont blame people for not wanting to drive down there, but on the flip side, if we do this Casey thing properly, the inner Melbourne people that decide not to venture down to Casey, could well be made up in numbers by Casey residents on game day.

I am still sitting on the fence and will probably change my opinion on this several times, but i do not see any harm in the club thinking about this and doing some research into the possibilty of playing games out in casey. The fact that we are arguing over this is great, because it shows that all different opinions are being expressed by the fans and can only help in working out whether this is viable or not, while we have some time to decide whether or not we like this idea.

Sigh.

You missed the InMyOpinion there or ignored it?

Cool, that's your opinion and fair enough. It's NOT what you said earlier: "I couldn't give a RA if Casey has the best facilities in the world, it's in the middle of butt fuch nowhere"

That's great, it really is (so was I). My point however still stands - people aren't turning up to those games in anywhere remotely near enough numbers. I'm not questioning your commitment based on disagreeing with you, see below.

You said it: "It's already an effort to get to the G, I won't be travelling an extra hour."

Lot's of people work 60 hour weeks (me again). Lot's of people travel 3+hrs a day to do so (me again).

The AFL's going to build this stadium? After their last attempt? How much will the South Yarra land cost? How is the deal going to benefit the MFC unless we get (lucky and get) all Essendon-esque cozy? How is this stadium suddenly going to make all the people who DONT go to the Freo/Port etc games suddenly materialise?

IMO (<--) anyone who thinks we can pull the above kind of deal out of our 'arz' is kidding themselves.

I did miss the IMO, apologies.

I stand by my description of where Casey is. Surrounded by paddocks is the description I've heard. Do you think there'll still be minimal traffic to the area once it's built up. I doubt it.

As for attendances, they were pretty good a few years back when we were playing good footy. This problem is not confined to us. All the smaller Melbourne clubs struggle when they're down the bottom of the ladder. Hawthorn was struggling a few short years ago and wil again IMO.

"I won't be travelling an extra hour" If you're going to quote me please do so accurately. Yes I won't be spending 4 hours on the road to watch a 3 hour game of football, how selfish of me. Real commitment when you live 15 minutes away.

As for the stadium. The AFL knows Melbourne clubs are being screwed by their stadium deals. 18 clubs would mean 2 stadia in Melbourne will struggle to cope. Makes commercial sense to build another. Will North, the doggies, and saints want to play out in Casey, I doubt it. Admittedly the MCC land in South Yarra is a pipedream of mine, but someone on here mentioned they had heard the idea somewhere before around the club so it's not just my pipedream. This land must be costing the MCC much more than it's making. Suburban cricket is hardly a major drawcard. Get on google earth, check out the location and size of it, rates must be susbstantial. I think it could be a win win for the afl and mcc to build a boutique stadium there for 16-20 games a year. The idea would be to get all Essendon-esque cosy with the mcc, the club already seems to be trying to. The land would cost the mcc nothing, they already own it. They're in the stadium business, we need to convince them of the merits. The fact is the mcc make plenty out of football, a lot more than they make out of cricket. The afl has recently told them as much and is pushing for US to recieve a better deal. For me the move to playing at Casey would be an absolute last resort. All inner city options should be explored first. Imagine if this did go ahead and we were committed to 30 years of 4 games a year at Casey, SUICIDE.

I suppose the other option is to play all home games at the MCG until we are insolvent. Then we can cater for the crowds in western sydney or Tassie.

A 3rd AFL venue in melbourne is a must for when the 17th+18th teams come in. Otherwise get used to the drive to geelong or watching home games on tv played interstate (Canberra, NT, TAS etc)

I actually live in city of bayside & I like the idea of playing the smaller crowd drawing games down & casey. I am really over the 'G', it's lost some of the atmosphere it used to have when I could sit anywhere I liked or get up and move. I could buy chips & drink or other food for reasonable prices & would usually get there early enough for a Qtr or a half of the reserves. Nice & relaxing with plenty of freedom & fun + excitement with the high marks & the ruff stuff.

Now, I just feel ripped off from the time I arrive @ the turnstiles.

I loved going down to Beach rd oval & the metropolitan communal feel of being able to get close to the action.

Bring on Casey games for me.

Furious D, you can say that the G is our home but don't tell me that embracing a growing area of Melbourne is suicide.

I'm not saying 4 games, i'm not saying play half our games away from the G.

2 games for a million bucks.

That's what can be made with 20000 crowds with low rent or no rent, and with selling of advertising.

Argue the G is our rightful home but don't tell me Casey is our road to ruin.

Because you're wrong.

(You really should get out there, the facilities are amazing and the opportunities limitless.)

.... From the training thread, I thought this discussion is better here!

..................

So if you want to be an arm chair "barracker" rather then see the boys in the flesh then go right ahead! These options have to be explored for the future benifit of the club. I have no doubt in my mind that we would get 20k to an interstate game be it at geelong or another smaller venue, so why not make casey a stronghold for the MFC where we can actually turn an impressive profit from game day against the smaller supported sides.

The concept has been done before and failed? The afl has not had a sml ground since princess park was closed because of a dodgy deal done by collins.

At the end of the day i would rather sit in traffic any day and support the boys in the flesh rather then the club being forced to travel and thus be forced to watch on TV. I really believe selling home games interstate while it is required at this stage is a step backward for the development of the MFC and its supporter base.

I do agree for a proposed venue to be viable it MUST have a station walking distance from the ground.

Thanks for moving - I guess its better suited in this thread.

Why do you assume that if it can't be Casey, then it has to be interstate?

Regardless, my position is this: I will choose public transport every time if possible.

I stopped going to Waverly because of the traffic-mess and also Geelong for the same reason but I can't get in that ground anymore, anyway. I suspect the same might happen if matches are played at Casey. It might be a boon for the club but I wouldn't have the first idea about the financial arrangements. I'm sceptical as to whether they can fill it for interstate matches - it didn't really work at Princess Park, did it? I'd much prefer people like yourself who are willing to make the trip fill the stadium. If my personal preference makes me an "armchair barracker" then so be it. I'm not against the prospect - I just won't go for the above stated reasons. But I will go and watch Casey Scorpions play there, whenever I get a chance.

To be honest, I think its a long way off, if ever.

Colonial has its bad points but its actually quite good to watch the footy. As far as the walkway is concerned, well, that's the price you pay for an inner-city stadium with full public transport facilities close by. Its no different to walking around the southern side of the G above Brunton Ave (although I believe they're expanding this).

There's only so many hours in a week Trident and yes I couldn't be shagged driving 2 hours each way to the footy. I'd seriously consider not getting a membership and getting foxtel instesd and I don't think I'd be alone

Option 1: MFC continues to play games against small-drawing opposition (Freo, Bris, Port, GC17, West. Syd) at MCG, each game running at around break-even (crowds 20-25k). As a result, MFC continues to sell 1-2 'home' games a year interstate in order to stay afloat. Outcome - furious d stays a member.

Option 2: MFC plays 2 or 3 of the lowest crowd pulling matches at new stadium at Casey, drawing crowds between 15-20k and running each match at a significant profit. No home matches are sold interstate. Outcome - furious d doesn't renew membership.

You twit.

Thanks for moving - I guess its better suited in this thread.

Why do you assume that if it can't be Casey, then it has to be interstate?

Regardless, my position is this: I will choose public transport every time if possible.

I stopped going to Waverly because of the traffic-mess and also Geelong for the same reason but I can't get in that ground anymore, anyway. I suspect the same might happen if matches are played at Casey. It might be a boon for the club but I wouldn't have the first idea about the financial arrangements. I'm sceptical as to whether they can fill it for interstate matches - it didn't really work at Princess Park, did it? I'd much prefer people like yourself who are willing to make the trip fill the stadium. If my personal preference makes me an "armchair barracker" then so be it. I'm not against the prospect - I just won't go for the above stated reasons. But I will go and watch Casey Scorpions play there, whenever I get a chance.

To be honest, I think its a long way off, if ever.

Colonial has its bad points but its actually quite good to watch the footy. As far as the walkway is concerned, well, that's the price you pay for an inner-city stadium with full public transport facilities close by. Its no different to walking around the southern side of the G above Brunton Ave (although I believe they're expanding this).

So what your basically saying is rather then the club being pro-active you would rather sit in your arm chair and allow the club to die a slow death by not changing. We loose money or just break even every time we play an interstate in melbourne be it MCG or the Dome. Therefore change is a must, either increase our gate #'s or look at other options. The first is nearly impossible, therefore looking at an alternative is what is required, the AFL have even indicated that a 3rd stadium in Melbourne is requried so we might as well be the ones to directly benifit from it similar to geelong otherwise we will wind up like fitzroy and be bullyed around by the bigger clubs and afl.

So what your basically saying is rather then the club being pro-active you would rather sit in your arm chair and allow the club to die a slow death by not changing. We loose money or just break even every time we play an interstate in melbourne be it MCG or the Dome. Therefore change is a must, either increase our gate #'s or look at other options. The first is nearly impossible, therefore looking at an alternative is what is required, the AFL have even indicated that a 3rd stadium in Melbourne is requried so we might as well be the ones to directly benifit from it similar to geelong otherwise we will wind up like fitzroy and be bullyed around by the bigger clubs and afl.

I've always been an advocate of playing games at Casey

2 Small drawing games involving interstae clubs played at Casey, with Footscray and North and even St Kilda doing the same.

MFC gets 10 home games at the G and 2 away games where members receive reciprical rights, funded through our relationship with the G and the AFL.

Casey will only make money(in the way Kardinia Park makes money for Geelong) if members are forced to buy a reserved seat. This is a little unlikely considering we'd be lucky to get 20,000 people to the stadium. We would however benefit greatly from the interaction with the local community and hopefully the cost of playing there is kept to a minimum, allowing us to turn losses into profits without playing interstate.

However I think we should also get the MCC to close the top tier of the ground at all our matches involving interstae sides. Allow kids onto the ground at at least one, preferably all these games and have the MCC help us promote these games through their newsletters and their regular ads in the friday papers.

Access to the change rooms for kids needs to be reintroduced. Getting the players not playing to roam the ground talking to supporters and giving away Demon supporter packs and the like. All these things would increase the numbers at games. Even selling memberships where players sit and talk to you during the breaks, explaining tactics and players roles with these members. The club needs to do lots of the little things as I don't believe their's a silver bullet that will fix all our problems.This club has been so badly run and so inactive for so long it's great to have Stynes and co in charge.

I've always been an advocate of playing games at Casey

2 Small drawing games involving interstae clubs played at Casey, with Footscray and North and even St Kilda doing the same.

MFC gets 10 home games at the G and 2 away games where members receive reciprical rights, funded through our relationship with the G and the AFL.

Casey will only make money(in the way Kardinia Park makes money for Geelong) if members are forced to buy a reserved seat. This is a little unlikely considering we'd be lucky to get 20,000 people to the stadium. We would however benefit greatly from the interaction with the local community and hopefully the cost of playing there is kept to a minimum, allowing us to turn losses into profits without playing interstate.

However I think we should also get the MCC to close the top tier of the ground at all our matches involving interstae sides. Allow kids onto the ground at at least one, preferably all these games and have the MCC help us promote these games through their newsletters and their regular ads in the friday papers.

Access to the change rooms for kids needs to be reintroduced. Getting the players not playing to roam the ground talking to supporters and giving away Demon supporter packs and the like. All these things would increase the numbers at games. Even selling memberships where players sit and talk to you during the breaks, explaining tactics and players roles with these members. The club needs to do lots of the little things as I don't believe their's a silver bullet that will fix all our problems.This club has been so badly run and so inactive for so long it's great to have Stynes and co in charge.

I totally agree. The point is we can't just sit back and do nothing. We as a club and more importantly we as the members and supporters also have to change. The MCG is our home and there is no better place to watch the dees, but we all have to be realistic about the direction of the club and the competition. 2009-12 will see the club change probably more then what it has in the last 20 yrs. We all have to be understanding and some changes will not be popular but nessicary. The worst thing that can happen is for heads to stay in the sand. I wonder if those who are against casey sit with MFC members or MCC?????

So what your basically saying is rather then the club being pro-active you would rather sit in your arm chair and allow the club to die a slow death by not changing.

Yep, Pretty much. You've got me there Monty. Your powers of extrapolation are quite astounding.

I hope we die soon, albeit slowly. But I really hope they die without changing also.

All I said is the following: MFC games at Cranbourne = I won't go. Thousands other will, so whats the issue?

You need to comprehend better.

Yep, Pretty much. You've got me there Monty. Your powers of extrapolation are quite astounding.

I hope we die soon, albeit slowly. But I really hope they die without changing also.

All I said is the following: MFC games at Cranbourne = I won't go. Thousands other will, so whats the issue?

You need to comprehend better.

Will you come if they build the train to the stadium?

Will you come if they build the train to the stadium?

i suspect that unless there is a (censored) room there forget it!!!

Will you come if they build the train to the stadium?

Yes.