When Neale Daniher left the MFC last year there was much talk about the MFC no longer "accepting mediocrity", whether it be through making excuses after games or the continued selection of under performing senior players.

Whilst Stynes, Bailey and Connolly have in some ways improved in this area (greater focus of youth and transparency with members and supporters) I am still extremely worried about the some of the public comments made by these senior officials.

What worries me is that this accepting of mediocrity still does and will continue with all this talk of "Premiership windows" and "Premiership clocks". That is, by stating that Melbourne won't play finals next year (or even the year after) as has been said (or words to that effect) by Bailey, Connolly and Stynes the club is already raising the white flag.

Now, if in one or two years time the team shows little or no improvement, these senior officials can turn around and say that they weren't expecting the team to perform so therefore they can bear little responsibility. This to me is accepting mediocrity. It's setting your standards low so you won't be disappointed if the team doesn't perform.

I'm not suggesting that anyone from the club does a Brad Green states that the team will play finals next year, however it should be their public policy to state the in 2009 the Melbourne Football Club are aiming to win the AFL Premiership. Yes, it is highly unlikely that the MFC will win the flag in 2009, 2010 or 2011 but it doesn't mean that it still isn't their aim. Any talk of windows and clocks should be kept behind closed doors and away from the public.

In a time when the MFC needs all the members and supporters at games they can get, publicly stating that the club won't win matches next year is the biggest of all turn-offs. Not all of us have the time, money or patience to go and watch a team play uninspiring, boring and tedious football that has subsequently resulted in many thrashings in recent times.

There are supporters out there who through sympathy alone will buy their memberships and go to games to watch the financially stricken team get flogged each week, but most supporters won't. We go to the football to be entertained, because we enjoy watching this team play the greatest game on Earth. They are athletes and entertainers and seeing Melbourne win is some of the greatest entertainment for us all. We can still however, be entertained even if they lose so long as we can see that the very best of the 22 players in red and blue was on display. That was not always the case this year.

I'm not questioning the desire of the players to win each week, or the coaching staff for that matter. I am however questioning the setting of low expectations and the creation of a losing culture that accepts mediocrity.

We, as supporters and members need some hope and some belief that no matter what, we will be entertained and we will enjoy going to watch the Demons play Australian Rules Football each and every week.

So if the club came out and said "We're aiming to win the 2009 Premiership," the floggings we will probably receive next season will be easier to take? And more people will attend our games?

Sorry but I don't see the connection. If the club starts winning and playing well, people will come, if we say we want to win and then get smashed anyway will not get anymore people in the gate than saying we're probably going to have a lean year.

I'd say aiming at a Premiership through a direct course of action, playing young players with a gameplan the coach deems as Premiership-winning, is not accepting mediocrity.

Selling out on a long term vision to play cheap thrills footy and play over-the-hill players for the sake of more immediate results is accepting mediocrity. I want our club to make a plan to win a Premiership and stick to it, that will be enough for me to attend the footy week in week out.

The culture of the club will change and I believe it is changing as we speak, but it will take time.

I want our club to make a plan to win a Premiership and stick to it, that will be enough for me to attend the footy week in week out.

The culture of the club will change and I believe it is changing as we speak, but it will take time.

I share CB's sentiments.

So how many years will this premiership plan take, and how is it financially sustainable?

The only culture I care about is a "winning culture".

This club should aim to win a premiership every year. That is the way it was when Norm Smith & Tiger Ridley Played. We must as supporters demand that this attitude is adhered & stuck to.

Agree with CB. I have not heard or read the comments, but if true it sounds a bit like Terry Wallace 5 years ago for Richmond. His setting of low expectations has certainly saved his hide, and they won't win a flag in the next 5 years either.

Ain't no "winning culture" like a "premiership winning culture."

How financially viable was floundering around the top 8 between 2004-2006? Are you seriously suggesting we put forward a half arsed approach in contrast to trying to win a Premiership?

Do you believe that any club in the competition is capable of winning the 2009 Grand Final?

Ain't no "winning culture" like a "premiership winning culture."

How financially viable was floundering around the top 8 between 2004-2006? Are you seriously suggesting we put forward a half arsed approach in contrast to trying to win a Premiership?

2004-2006 $1million profits.

As Dees Dayz states, our plan is no different to what Wallace has done at Richmond. And how can you call it a Premiership Plan when there is no factual evidence that it will ever come to fruition?

I don't believe that trying to win every game you play is a half-arsed approach.

There are no certainties in football, so you have to make the best of what you've got today. I don't believe that this was the case this year.

It's accepting mediocrity because if in the future Melbourne don't improve by much then the club can say "Oh well, we didn't expect much anyway".

When really we should demand the best week in week out. The best may not always be a win, but it is rather the best that the 22 players selected that week can perform to. How can we expect to see this when the coaches and President are saying that they are not expecting the team to perform? Why would I bother going to watch Melbourne play if I know they are not expecting to play well? At least if I know that their aim is to win the flag this year then I might have some hope of getting some entertainment out of the game win, lose or draw because the bar hasn't been lowered so much that they just have to fall over to achieve it.

Lower your expectations and you won't be disappointed.

EDIT: Sorry for my overuse of the word "expect".

So if the club came out and said "We're aiming to win the 2009 Premiership," the floggings we will probably receive next season will be easier to take? And more people will attend our games?

Sorry but I don't see the connection. If the club starts winning and playing well, people will come, if we say we want to win and then get smashed anyway will not get anymore people in the gate than saying we're probably going to have a lean year.

I'd say aiming at a Premiership through a direct course of action, playing young players with a gameplan the coach deems as Premiership-winning, is not accepting mediocrity.

Selling out on a long term vision to play cheap thrills footy and play over-the-hill players for the sake of more immediate results is accepting mediocrity. I want our club to make a plan to win a Premiership and stick to it, that will be enough for me to attend the footy week in week out.

The culture of the club will change and I believe it is changing as we speak, but it will take time.

You're on the money here. I just can't believe so many supporters can't see this.

This is the most disheartening thing of all - if given the opportunity to make decisions, the majority of our supporters would unwittingly kill the club.

I share CB's sentiments.

I share 45's sentiments

I'd rather hear about some realistic aspirations for the upcoming season than false bravado about how we're a decent chance at winning the 2009 premiership.

Agree with CB. I have not heard or read the comments, but if true it sounds a bit like Terry Wallace 5 years ago for Richmond. His setting of low expectations has certainly saved his hide, and they won't win a flag in the next 5 years either.

Both Stynes and CC have said that we're a few years away.

Well, put it like this -

The key to rebuilding our list is making honest assessments without getting tangled up in emotion.

To believe we CAN win a premiership in our current state is simply out of touch with reality, and how can being like that possibly help us?

A coach that won't accept reality can only be detrimental to the club.

In regards to membership I know 8 different supporters who have personally told me they are signing up as MFC members next year for the 1st time because they realise the club needs them.

It demonstrates to me that people pay their membership feeds due to different motives, winning is only one of them.

You're on the money here. I just can't believe so many supporters can't see this.

This is the most disheartening thing of all - if given the opportunity to make decisions, the majority of our supporters would unwittingly kill the club.

I failed to see a gameplan that was premiership winning, in fact, we were statistically the worst performed side since Fitzroy in their final season.

And I don't understand your second sentence.

Or we could do a carlton and start talking ourselves up before the season even starts

Nothing I have heard from DB or CC has made me feel the way CB does (YET). But I will take more notice now that you have pointed it out. DB genrally plays a straight bat and tends away from making any predictions about our future form. Cartlon on the other hand seem quite smitten with themselves....

my prediction: Carlton win 9 games in '09, lygon street despairs.

Now, if in one or two years time the team shows little or no improvement, these senior officials can turn around and say that they weren't expecting the team to perform so therefore they can bear little responsibility. This to me is accepting mediocrity. It's setting your standards low so you won't be disappointed if the team doesn't perform.

To me it is being honest with your list. To me it is stating the bleeding obvious. Connolly & Stynes have stated that we can expect some more pain next season in the short term before improvement is expected.

In regards to membership I know 8 different supporters who have personally told me they are signing up as MFC members next year for the 1st time because they realise the club needs them.

It demonstrates to me that people pay their membership feeds due to different motives, winning is only one of them.

A similar thing happened with me a few years ago, for some reason I was mobilised by our team's suffering.

I love the Melbourne Football Club. I don't know why, it doesn't make much sense really, but that doesn't make it any less true. If you love something you accept whatever it throws at you, even mediocrity. Does,'t mean you have to like it, but you accept it regardless. I've accepted mediocrity my whole life and so have all you for the last 44 years, and if we stop now the club is dead for sure. So please all of you, what's a few more years. I've got a good feeling about 2012

I failed to see a gameplan that was premiership winning, in fact, we were statistically the worst performed side since Fitzroy in their final season.

And I don't understand your second sentence.

He's IMPLEMENTING a gameplan, not a gameplan has been IMPLEMENTED. It is in the process of being done. Doesn't happen overnight.

It also depends on having competent players who can execute said gameplan.

And the 2nd sentence refers to supporters who would be happy to be slightly more competitive in the short-term, not realising this would condemn us to being far worse off in the near future than we are now, as opposed to doing what we are attempting now which could lead to the ultimate glory.

I'd rather hear about some realistic aspirations for the upcoming season than false bravado about how we're a decent chance at winning the 2009 premiership.

I never said that it's about saying the team is a chance. It's about making the club's intentions clear that no matter crap things seem, their aim each and every year is to win the Premiership. Behind closed doors they know and we know that the chance is tiny, but it's still a chance.

Why should I go and watch a team run around if the club itself has stated that they are essentially just making up the numbers? I want to see a team go out and no matter what play as if there's five minutes to go in the Grand Final and they are two goals down. I don't want to see the complete and utter crap that we have been given over the past two seasons.

I share 45's sentiments

I'd rather hear about some realistic aspirations for the upcoming season than false bravado about how we're a decent chance at winning the 2009 premiership.

Both Stynes and CC have said that we're a few years away.

Correct.

The plan of the current administration is much different to Wallet (I note that they wont use Hawthorn as example). Wallet took hold of a team that was middle ranked and proceeded to destroy the Club lists with the recruitment of has been and undertake some of the worst recruitment and list management processes that has left them in the shambles they are in. Richmond have burnt a golden opportunity over 5 years with football management incompetence and poor coaching.

Both Stynes and CC have said that we're a few years away.

Its an honest and factual admission of where the Club is at. And good on them for having the integrity and the nous to do so. Seems they have the jump over many of the posters here.

What has been proven from the situations of Carlton, Hawthorn and St Kilda is that it does take a number of years to rejuvenate a football list that are bereft of the talent needed to be successful.

I failed to see a gameplan that was premiership winning, in fact, we were statistically the worst performed side since Fitzroy in their final season.

What game plan should we have been playing Mo?

I failed to see a list with the skills, pace, experience and competence to execute any game plan.

Keep believing the mirage.

Why should I go and watch a team run around if the club itself has stated that they are essentially just making up the numbers? I want to see a team go out and no matter what play as if there's five minutes to go in the Grand Final and they are two goals down. I don't want to see the complete and utter crap that we have been given over the past two seasons.

Where's the causal link between talking the talk and performance on the field?

A realistic assessment of where your list is at that suggests you're not a top team doesn't preclude you from playing decent footy.

If talking the talk meant you walked the walk then we would have performed much much better in 2007, when ND was still reaching for the stars, than in 2008 under DB's rebuilding.

I think you should dissassociate your link between the assessment of where we're at and perceived effort on the field, but of course it's up to you.

OK.

Hawthorn openly said before & after this past season that they did not expect to win a premiership until 2010.

I don't think I need to say much more.

The whole point of this thread is about trying to create a winning culture.

Where mediocrity is not accepted, nor is it expected no matter how bad things seem.

i am with clint bizket's side here...whilst i see the importance of being honest and realistic

WE STILL WANT TO STRIVE FOR THE BEST IN EVERYTHING WE DO AS A WHOLE

we want to go in next year and play good honest football...we want to have games like the brisbane game, where the fans and the players unite as one big, loud and enthousiastic red and blue unit

--i do not want to go to games expecting to lose

even though our list is young and raw, if the players believe in themselves, everynow and then, we will put in corageous efforts that last an entire game

--i want more articles like this: Bailey May be Quitely Working Magic

while i respect what jim stynes has achieved and will continue to achieve, i do not like hearing that he doesnt believe in the team next year

--while it may be true (that we wont do too well next year),

i want to go to games, where the players believe that they can win and will not accept anything else (even if it seems impossible)

...I want the players to really feel it when we lose

-losing should NEVER be expected or you can say goodbye to any support from the fans and members

--accepting losing, accepting the fact that we will not do well, IS accepting mediocrity

carlton have had a losing culture and spent way too many years down at the bottom.

hawthorn bottomed out big time, but there efforts were hard fought, they made an effort to draft hard players (luke hodge etc) and when they lost, they lost trying their best

-look at them now!

-look at carlton now. they are finally looking okay, but after way too many years at the bottom (with a chris judd and three number one draft picks on the way boosting their chances)...without chris judd, i dont believe they would have made top 8 for another couple of difficult years

--i dont want this to be us

--i do want to take the youth policy, i want to take the hard road and i know that it will be tough, but boy, we (as a whole) need to believe they we can achieve something...or we never will

when it comes from the top that we suck, the spiral effect occurs and the message gets through to the players, coaches and the members that it is ok if they dont perform.....................that is not good

"melbournefc--not accepting mediocrity 2009 onwards" (quote from baileys babies)

...

Pretty much spot on from my point of view.

The whole point of this thread is about trying to create a winning culture.

Where mediocrity is not accepted, nor is it expected no matter how bad things seem.

This entire discussion hinges on each individual's definition of the word "mediocrity" (or mediocre) in regards to football.

When talking about 'no longer accepting mediocrity' we are talking about different things.