The importance of ruckmen these days

[Guest feerimana]

Hello. I wish to ask you people if you think ruckmen are as important as they once used to be.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Not really.

Hawks used Stuart Dew at a boundary throw in and just had Roughead go up as a 3rd man. There are ways around the new boundary umpire system

[Roost It 1,434]

Hello. I wish to ask you people if you think ruckmen are as important as they once used to be.

An agile running ruckmen who can take a contested mark acts as another onballer. I think "tap" rockmen are almost finished in this game.

[Yencks 8]

ruckmen just for doing the ruckwork i suppose are almost finished in the game as has been said

however, dont underestimate the importance of a good ruckman at the centre bounce

i know geelong to have the greatest ruckmen, but watch centre counces, when a ruckmen taps it to advantage, it is a huge boost for that team

[Eastie Boyz 0]

the Brisbane vs Carlton game this year proved that if there is a dominate ruckman it's invaluable to the team. Remember Charman putting the ball down Black's throat 3 centre bounces in a row for 2 goals and a behind

[H_T 3,049]

Welcome to Demonland. In short: I think a valuable ruckmen are still very important.(ie. Dean Cox, Drew Petrie, R.Campbell, A.Sandilands). Average run of the mill "C" grade ruckman are not that important. (ie. All the ruckman that struggled to be competitive against the Cox's, Petries, etc) . Ie Cloke, Simmonds, Jamar.

[45HG 1,559]

HT, i don't think Robbie Campbell is a very good ruckman, more of a run of the mill type player. And guys like Cox, Petrie are so good effectively because they become stupidly tall midfielders or KPPs and that's how they execute their hold over the match.

Simmonds is not a "C" grade ruckman either.

It's like any other position now IMO. You have to be able to do the main skill required of your position well, but you also have to have good general ability and also the ability to run hard all day long. Hence why you would call Jamar "C" grade. Even if he was a really good tap ruckman, you'd probably still regard him as such

[dee-luded 2,959]

Hello. I wish to ask you people if you think ruckmen are as important as they once used to be.

Very important. They must bash & crash & intimidate their way around the paddock taking marks at will, particularly marking in the forward line. If they're not doing this they're a liability.

It's not about winning lots of possessions, otherwise you'd be better off with another midfield type.

It's about helping the direction out of defence linking up marking from the kickoff, blocking bumping, laying heavy tackles & generally creating havock on the opposition. Getting you midfield first use in the middle & splitting packs. Crucial.

Geelong really missed King this Grand Final.

[titan_uranus 25,252]

Welcome to Demonland. In short: I think a valuable ruckmen are still very important.(ie. Dean Cox, Drew Petrie, R.Campbell, A.Sandilands). Average run of the mill "C" grade ruckman are not that important. (ie. All the ruckman that struggled to be competitive against the Cox's, Petries, etc) . Ie Cloke, Simmonds, Jamar.

Campbell is a nothing ruckman, our perception of him is increased thanks to the bevy of stars he has at his feet.

Simmonds is better than Campbell, but neither is an 'A grade' ruckman.

[deanox 10,070]

firstly. ruckmen are only important if the opposition have a good ruckman. ie two dud ruckmen cancel each other out, as do two superstar ruckmen.

secondly. an average ruckman can be made to look superstar by having a great midfield around him.

thirdly. the importance of ruckwork itself has diminished due to the centre circle rule, which means that it is more about negating the opposition than about knocking to advantage.

forthly. a good ruckman can impose himself physically on a contest, blocking and shepherding and clearing space for his mids. taking marks in the forward while under physical pressure.

conclusion. the key to successful rucking seems to be good contested marking and endeavour and willingness to use your body around the ground. this is why jamar looked *better* this year, especially when compared to jeff white. however he still hasnt reached an appropriate level, and his refusal to kick the ball is embarrassing.

[titan_uranus 25,252]

firstly. ruckmen are only important if the opposition have a good ruckman. ie two dud ruckmen cancel each other out, as do two superstar ruckmen.

secondly. an average ruckman can be made to look superstar by having a great midfield around him.

thirdly. the importance of ruckwork itself has diminished due to the centre circle rule, which means that it is more about negating the opposition than about knocking to advantage.

forthly. a good ruckman can impose himself physically on a contest, blocking and shepherding and clearing space for his mids. taking marks in the forward while under physical pressure.

conclusion. the key to successful rucking seems to be good contested marking and endeavour and willingness to use your body around the ground. this is why jamar looked *better* this year, especially when compared to jeff white. however he still hasnt reached an appropriate level, and his refusal to kick the ball is embarrassing.

Great summary of ruckmen deanox. Still, the point is, a 'superstar' ruckman vs a dud ruckman can give a team a serious advantages at the stoppages. There just aren't enough 'superstar' ruckman.

[deanox 10,070]

Great summary of ruckmen deanox. Still, the point is, a 'superstar' ruckman vs a dud ruckman can give a team a serious advantages at the stoppages. There just aren't enough 'superstar' ruckman.

yeah exactly. the 2-3 who can dominate can be very influential. but most can't. its funny how we can find 25 effective forwards, similar effective backs. bags of effective midfielders, but you can count on 1 hand how many successful ruckmen there are in the league atm.

my question is, how influential can they be? i mean, the price you need to pay to get a great one (high draft picks or players in trades), is it worth getting a ruck, or should you focus on a star mid or forward, who is more likely to have a genuine effect on the game and be able to sway results? im not sure that ruckmen can change the flow of a game the way a star mid or forward can. and if thats the case, get yourself a good honest ruckman who can negate the opposition ruckman, and you will probably be almost as well off, and you didnt have to pay for him (and therefore could snare a good player for another part of the ground).

[H_T 3,049]

Campbell is a nothing ruckman, our perception of him is increased thanks to the bevy of stars he has at his feet.

Simmonds is better than Campbell, but neither is an 'A grade' ruckman.

I beg to differ Titan. Campbell is a very handy ruckman at present. And he still has upside to him (improvement). I rate Campbell, although I definitely have Petrie, Cox and Sandilands in the "top bracket", so me putting Campbell in their company would be being kind to him. Simmonds...not so sure he is that much better than Campbell, was fortunate to get a start in the Hall of Fame game, but that's my view.

yeah exactly. the 2-3 who can dominate can be very influential. but most can't. its funny how we can find 25 effective forwards, similar effective backs. bags of effective midfielders, but you can count on 1 hand how many successful ruckmen there are in the league atm.

my question is, how influential can they be? i mean, the price you need to pay to get a great one (high draft picks or players in trades), is it worth getting a ruck, or should you focus on a star mid or forward, who is more likely to have a genuine effect on the game and be able to sway results?

Quite right. Unless those in the know are absolutely certain that ruckmen in the draft will be dominant, it's more than likely they will go for a star mid or forward for that very reason you point out.

[titan_uranus 25,252]

my question is, how influential can they be? i mean, the price you need to pay to get a great one (high draft picks or players in trades), is it worth getting a ruck, or should you focus on a star mid or forward, who is more likely to have a genuine effect on the game and be able to sway results? im not sure that ruckmen can change the flow of a game the way a star mid or forward can. and if thats the case, get yourself a good honest ruckman who can negate the opposition ruckman, and you will probably be almost as well off, and you didnt have to pay for him (and therefore could snare a good player for another part of the ground).

I still think that a dominant display by a ruckman can change the course of a game. But yes, if it costs too much, a good midfielder could help to overcome a ruckman deficiency.

I beg to differ Titan. Campbell is a very handy ruckman at present. And he still has upside to him (improvement). I rate Campbell, although I definitely have Petrie, Cox and Sandilands in the "top bracket", so me putting Campbell in their company would be being kind to him. Simmonds...not so sure he is that much better than Campbell, was fortunate to get a start in the Hall of Fame game, but that's my view.

Well let's agree to disagree HT. I'd rate Simmonds above Campbell, but whatever.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

We need to do all we can to get the Warnock boy and upstage the Carlton cabal.

[bjgc 0]

The game has passed ruckman by. 95% of the time they either hit it anywhere or it falls at their feet unless they kick goals they are useless midfielders make ruckman not the other way around. Why they still have 2 ruckman in a team is beyond me it's just a waste of an interchange spot I have always thought teams would be better off playing an extra midfielder so they can have an extra rotation so they can run teams off their feet we done that a few years ago when Jolly and Jamar were injured and we were playing like the best team in the league playing only White and having Miller and Holland give him the occasional spell as soon as they came back we didn't win a game.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Well let's agree to disagree HT. I'd rate Simmonds above Campbell, but whatever.

They're a different sort of ruckman. Simmonds is only 196cm and doesn't have a huge leap on him so his job at stoppages is to primarily negate the opposition then use his athleticism around the ground. I'm almost certain he runs sub 2.9 seconds for the 20m.

Campbell is significantly bigger and would be closer to a "tap" ruckman as he wins his fair share of hitouts and is pretty good at directing them towards Mitchell and co

[Wolfmother 182]

Ruckman are still important in the game and anyone that plays any level of football will tell you the same thing.... If you have a dominant ruck your midfield sets up differently you move at stoppages to advantage, whilst if you don't have a decent ruckman you are always reacting and trying to shark the ball