Lynden Dunn....a dilemma

[mo64 5,853]

I think Hannibal is right on this one. Dunn needs to get that habit out of his system quicksmart.

How many games has Dunn played? To describe him as a habitual offender in the courage department is b#llshit. Gary Ablett jnr committed a similar act in a final a few years ago, and nobody questions his courage now.

We perservered with Bell for ages because he doesn't lack courage. Give me a footballer like Dunn ahead of a try hard like Bell any day. Was Dunn's crime any worse than the multitude of times our players missed targets when under no pressure?

For Hannabal to suggest that he HAS to be dropped is laughable.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

How many games has Dunn played? To describe him as a habitual offender in the courage department is b#llshit. Gary Ablett jnr committed a similar act in a final a few years ago, and nobody questions his courage now.

We perservered with Bell for ages because he doesn't lack courage. Give me a footballer like Dunn ahead of a try hard like Bell any day. Was Dunn's crime any worse than the multitude of times our players missed targets when under no pressure?

For Hannabal to suggest that he HAS to be dropped is laughable.

There has been a question mark about Dunns capacity to absorb and cope with the physical demands of AFL. Sunday's episodes did not diminish the question? Does Ablett lack courage today? No. Well maybe its something Dunn has to learn.

Any player that forgoes or refuses to take their turn when it comes to the physical side of an AFL contest, lets the team down and sends a message to teammates and opposition that undermines the team's game. If you want to build a team capable of September success you need players that are totally and fully commitment to the contest. This Club has tolerated players for too long who have played AFL to their own standards and not the teams.

If Bailey is serious about developing a serious team culture in the Club then its those actions that needs to be changed...quickly.

[Kit Walker 225]

Any player that forgoes or refuses to take their turn when it comes to the physical side of an AFL contest, lets the team down and sends a message to teammates and opposition that undermines the team's game. If you want to build a team capable of September success you need players that are totally and fully commitment to the contest. This Club has tolerated players for too long who have played AFL to their own standards and not the teams.

If Bailey is serious about developing a serious team culture in the Club then its those actions that needs to be changed...quickly.

I don't disagree with your general remarks, but who are you suggesting take his place - particularly given the poor Sandringham result?

Is Dunn the only one to be dropped, the first to be dropped or are there others (for reasons of skill or discipline) who would be dropped first?

[Miracle 89]

For Hannabal to suggest that he HAS to be dropped is laughable.

[mo64 5,853]

I don't disagree with your general remarks, but who are you suggesting take his place - particularly given the poor Sandringham result?

Is Dunn the only one to be dropped, the first to be dropped or are there others (for reasons of skill or discipline) who would be dropped first?

Spot on. I don't disagree with RR's sentiments about achieving September success, but to suggest that Dunn has to be dropped is laughable. Sure, DB needs to pull him aside and have a chat about it, but at this stage of his football development, dropping him will do him more harm than good.

As much as I dislike Malthouse, the 1st thing that he did when he got to Collingwood was delist the tough nut try hards that Tony Shaw loved. He culled the likes of Jason Wild and Frankie Raso, and later on McGough and Betherus, yet persisted with perceived soft players in Rhyce Shaw and Leon Davis. Players with talent will at least get you to September, whereas try hards won't.

RR states that "This Club has tolerated players for too long who have played AFL to their own standards and not the teams", well the same can be said of players like Godfrey, Nicholson, Williams and Bell, who we persisted with despite their lack of ability. These players are never going to allow a team to achieve regular September success.

[45HG 1,539]

If only for a team who played with as much endeavour as Wheels.

His kicking seems to have fallen away a bit, perhaps because he's been out of AFL for a while, but numerous times he put his body on the line yesterday to get the ball to a teammate. Not even through a possession on occassion, but just through a tap or a knock on. He also laid a top shepherd to allow us run out of the backline.

Not every player has to do it all the time, and go out of the way for it, but every player has to take their turn when their number is called. It's called being a part of a team and looking after your mates, as taking one yourself often can free up a teammate.

I think it's what Sydney do very well, many times i saw them take a hit, or at least hold the ball for an extra half second, to allow a mate to run into space.

For what it's worth, i also don't think that dropping Dunn for such behaviour will help fix the club's problem. Many players get dropped, play at Sandy, and come back seemingly the same player they were before. It must be a player-led inniative that encompasses each player, new or old, with a set of guidelines necessary to wear the red and blue. Dropping an individual i don't think will achieve this, it must be a club-wide approach. Players shouldn't go hard for fear of being dropped, they should go in hard for fear of letting down their mates

[mo64 5,853]

Please DB Dunn must go

So should Malthouse have thrown Davis and Rhyce Shaw on the scrapheap for their soft efforts in Grand Finals? And should Bommber Thompson have thrown Gary Ablett jnr on the scrapheap for his soft effort in a final? The answer is NO. Like Dunn, these players were young enough to learn from their mistakes.

Dropping Dunn would be a form of ridicule that someone of his experience doesn't deserve.

[Miracle 89]

No I would not drop a player for one soft effort

But I would drop Dunn for multiple soft efforts

[mo64 5,853]

No I would not drop a player for one soft effort

But I would drop Dunn for multiple soft efforts

Then also drop those players who repeatedly turn the ball over. We'll have 10 changes this week!

[Miracle 89]

You completely miss the point.

I am talking about attitude. Skill errors are not attitude errors.

You are starting to talk nonsense

[mo64 5,853]

You completely miss the point.

I am talking about attitude. Skill errors are not attitude errors.

You are starting to talk nonsense

Hopefully you are not a manager of people, Miracle. You don't drop a kid for a couple of soft efforts after he's shown the discipline to shut down the opposition's best player in consecutive weeks. It's a form of ridicule that Dunn doesn't deserve.

[Choko 493]

Hopefully you are not a manager of people, Miracle. You don't drop a kid for a couple of soft efforts after he's shown the discipline to shut down the opposition's best player in consecutive weeks. It's a form of ridicule that Dunn doesn't deserve.

I manage people and I beg to differ.

What others here have said is correct. He is repeat offender. In addition, it is a mental (and honesty) issue. So the fact Ablett did it doesn't mean you write him off, but it does mean that an attitude must change. Some players pull out once, feel so guilty for dudding their team-mates, and never do it again (Junior did one at TD early in his career, and was so embarrassed by it, it made him tough).

But to focus on the reason I think it is appropriate yo take action... If hardness is a mental issue, then he has to make a choice whether or not to dud his teammates. In a corporate culture, few things decay an organisation more than someone who is dudding their mates, and management turns a blind eye because that person is performing/bringing in the money. It is much better to have a culture and stick to it.

The better example in my opinion is Geelong dropping Steve J for mental/attitudinal issues. They said "we don't care what sort of job you did, we won't accept that element of you". Same should apply for Dunn, espcially in a learning year like this.

[mo64 5,853]

I manage people and I beg to differ.

What others here have said is correct. He is repeat offender.

How many games has Dunn played?

[Rogue 585]

We perservered with Bell for ages because he doesn't lack courage. Give me a footballer like Dunn ahead of a try hard like Bell any day. Was Dunn's crime any worse than the multitude of times our players missed targets when under no pressure?

Players don't choose to miss targets.

They choose whether to take one for the team.

[Choko 493]

How many games has Dunn played?

32.

And he was dropped last year for ducking his head in a contested situation.

[Miracle 89]

mo64

Think of the premiership coaches of the last 10 years

Do you really think that they would tolerate this

[The Emblem 1]

They choose whether to take one for the team.

And this should be written into every marriage contract!

[jabberwocky 2,301]

mo64

Think of the premiership coaches of the last 10 years

Do you really think that they would tolerate this

Only Dean Bailey and the coaching staff are in the position to make a call on Dunn's selection (or non selection). If Dean Bailey has warned Dunn about these issues previously then ommission may be warranted. If not I would suspect that he would have a disussion re how he could have turned his serviceable game into a great game by putting his body on the line on those occasions. Dunn and other players need to be aware of the standard required.

This is Bailey's first year and it is about imposing a new standard on the playing group. The time for action comes when the players learn the standard and are aware of it but don't cosistently perform to it.

[mo64 5,853]

mo64

Think of the premiership coaches of the last 10 years

Do you really think that they would tolerate this

Premiership coaches also don't tolerate players who turn the ball over.

The Port Adelaide side was full of front-running players, and Geelong were considered a soft side prior to last year. Williams and Thompson perservered with their skillful players until they developed the hardness. They didn't throw them on the scrapheap.

I want us to do the same.

[Jarka 767]

Premiership coaches also don't tolerate players who turn the ball over.

The Port Adelaide side was full of front-running players, and Geelong were considered a soft side prior to last year. Williams and Thompson perservered with their skillful players until they developed the hardness. They didn't throw them on the scrapheap.

I want us to do the same.

I understand what you're saying I'm all for playing Dunn however I wouldn't put him in the skillful category.

Dunn is most likely going to be a lost cause, I just can't see him playing at a great level to be in our next finals push. This year though we've got a great opportunity, not many teams can afford to play a group of players who are not up to it, hopefully with some confidence and luck he can get better. If he does it will be a great bonus, but I won't be shocked if he doesn't.

[Guest Schtacker]

My heart absolutely sank when he missed that goal - wasn't a simple one, ad he did well in the passage of play but geeeez, he just had to slot that one. Apart from that he had 10 disposals. Don't know what all the fuss is about.

[Rogue 585]

Williams and Thompson perservered with their skillful players until they developed the hardness. They didn't throw them on the scrapheap.

I want us to do the same.

Since when is demoting a player 'throwing them on the scrapheap'?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Premiership coaches also don't tolerate players who turn the ball over.

The Port Adelaide side was full of front-running players, and Geelong were considered a soft side prior to last year. Williams and Thompson perservered with their skillful players until they developed the hardness. They didn't throw them on the scrapheap.

I want us to do the same.

Bollocks. Williams drafted Hardwick and Pickett and got great mileage out of them when it mattered in September. Geelong were never soft. They were undisciplined and uncommitted. Players like Mooney, Johnson and Kelly all changed their attitude and attack on the ball. All at time on the outer.

No one is throwing him on the scrapheap. Just making him accountable for choosing not to take a contest. Dunn's issue is one of choice of action. Skill issues are more often limitations in the players capability. Many of these skill issues can be worked on. Poor choices of action can become ingrained and hard to change as players mature.

I do note your pet hate Bell is in the Sandy side at the moment.

[deanox 9,898]

I understand what you're saying I'm all for playing Dunn however I wouldn't put him in the skillful category.

Dunn is most likely going to be a lost cause, I just can't see him playing at a great level to be in our next finals push. This year though we've got a great opportunity, not many teams can afford to play a group of players who are not up to it, hopefully with some confidence and luck he can get better. If he does it will be a great bonus, but I won't be shocked if he doesn't.

i dont think he is going to be a lost cause. hasn't he shown the last 3 or 4 weeks that he can play as a very effective stopper? players like goodes are hard to stop because of their physical attributes. your usual tagger types would have limited influence as they are usually smaller.

given he is young and has only been playing this role for a short time there is every chance he will learn to get more of the ball himself.

apart from the free kicks i thought he beat goodes yesterday. if he had of kicked that goal he definitely beat him.

[w00dy 146]

Dunn is most likely going to be a lost cause, I just can't see him playing at a great level to be in our next finals push. This year though we've got a great opportunity, not many teams can afford to play a group of players who are not up to it, hopefully with some confidence and luck he can get better. If he does it will be a great bonus, but I won't be shocked if he doesn't.

someone needs to bookmark this...