Where does that put england in the pecking order, below NZ+WI?

Rough World standings....... - any thoughts?

Aust

SA

IND

NZ

WI

ENG

PAK?

SRI?

ZIM

My thoughts......

Aust

SA

India

Sri Lanka

Pakistan

England

West Indies

New Zealand

Daylight

Bangladesh

Zimbabwe

My thoughts......

Aust

SA

India

Sri Lanka

Pakistan

England

West Indies

New Zealand

Daylight

Bangladesh

Zimbabwe

That's the official order as per http://icc-cricket.yahoo.com/rankings/rankings.html (as of 6th March). It's how I would see it as well. The top 3 are clearly the best 3 in the world. Sri Lanka and Pakistan have the players to make a contest against those three teams (but get unfairly underscheduled by the ICC). England can't seem to improve, West Indies might finally be on the up, and New Zealand is terrible (can't bat, can hardly bowl either).

And whilst we're speaking of rankings, in the player rankings, Mitchell Johnson is now equal with Dale Steyn as the best fastbowler and the no. 2 bowler overall (behind Muralitharan): http://www.icc-cricketrankings.com/

IMHO I thought whilst Gilchrist had some faults with his keeping, he was a handy keeper. I've seen Haddin a fair bit now, and he seems to me to be making as many errors, if not more... than Gilchrist.

He's definitely handy with the bat on the flipside Haddin, I'll give him that.

I agree that McGain should play, particularly with injury clouds over a couple of our quicks.

I also think that Hilfenhaus could be a major weapon in England, as I've said a few times.

Btw, does Siddle remind anyone else of McDermott?

I agree that McGain should play, particularly with injury clouds over a couple of our quicks.

I also think that Hilfenhaus could be a major weapon in England, as I've said a few times.

Btw, does Siddle remind anyone else of McDermott?

A little Rogue. Definitely a bit of hot streak in him, which is the competitor I like to see. He reminds me a little of someone else.........Justin Leppitsch of Brisbane Lions ilk. Is that a good look-a-like....?

Vics putting Qld to the sword... but can only manage two players in the shield team of the year. What a joke!

Vics putting Qld to the sword... but can only manage two players in the shield team of the year. What a joke!

I'm quite surprised they didn't enforce the follow-on, thereby absolutely ensuring the shield. Batting again gives the Bulls some hope, though obviously it's a very, very, very slim chance.

I'm quite surprised they didn't enforce the follow-on, thereby absolutely ensuring the shield. Batting again gives the Bulls some hope, though obviously it's a very, very, very slim chance.

Got to give the bowlers a rest. Apparently the run ups were creating problems for the bowlers becaues of the rain. Besides we've pretty much won anyway.

Batting again and posting a massive lead, puts QLD out of the game totally Titan, what a lead of 400+ with more runs this morning, they won't make the runs, almost impossible. May as well bat until lunch then send QLD in with a lead of over 500.

Well done Vics, you deserve it.

edit: - Just checked baggygreen.

QLD have been sent in with a target of 592 from 67 overs remaining in the day. The VICS declared at 282/5 in the second dig. With Nannes in find form we will probably win anyway 'outright' with him taking 5 wickets.

Obviously we have been in an unassailable position since the rain hit. I was just thinking that enforcing the follow on could have allowed us a chance at a win.

Lunch on day 5: we lead by 592. So clearly we've won the Shield.

So clearly we've won the Shield.

In the history books now as of 5.30 EST.... Go the mighty Vics!!!!!

And on a congratulatory note, Martin Love made an unbeaten century in his last innings for the Bulls. Well done Love. And well done Victoria.

and I'm starting the Dirk Nannes for the Ashes Tour fan club. 151.6 kms an hour with more than a hint of reverse swing to finish the Bulls first innings. The man is intimidating.

and I'm startying the Dirk Nannes for the Ashes Tour fan club. 151.6 kms an hour with more than a hint of reverse swing to finish the Bulls first innings. The man is intimidating.

I will be your first member, but it will be a hard nut for him to crack.

I will be your first member, but it will be a hard nut for him to crack.

Too late HT, the #1 ticket went long ago!

Maybe siddle out for Dirky! See if he can put a couple of the SA batsmen into the alfred!

And while we are on vic fast bowlers did anyone watch the vic v nsw 20/20. How nannes can't get a 20/20 international game is beyond me.

The only thing that worries me is the old "Bringing the game into disrepute". His nickname is psyco for a reason

I agree that McGain should play, particularly with injury clouds over a couple of our quicks.

I also think that Hilfenhaus could be a major weapon in England, as I've said a few times.

Btw, does Siddle remind anyone else of McDermott?

Nth in doubt with a gastric bug, Mcgain has to play.

If the selectors get this wrong we are going into the ashes with no spinner with any recent test practice which IMO is madness

Well then. Australia has in 2 days undone the superb efforts of the previous 15.

We can apportion blame on the selectors for not sending over a replacement batsman. Hodge, Klinger, Rogers or Ferguson should have had Hauritz's place in the original squad. That was poor judgement, and as many commentators had pointed out, could have cost us the series if it was 1-1, not 2-0.

The McGain experiment has failed. Sorry folks. 93 runs in 10 overs is woeful. He bowled maybe 5 balls in total that were threatening, and most of those were in his first 2 overs late on Day 1. Too much short stuff and full tosses. At 37, persisting with him would unfortunately be a waste of time. Better off with Krejza, who at least has shown his potential to take wickets, and has time on his side.

Well then. Australia has in 2 days undone the superb efforts of the previous 15.

Nothing like hyperbole. Its been disappointing but to go from 0/50 to all out 209 on a good wicket just hands the game to the opposition.

We can apportion blame on the selectors for not sending over a replacement batsman. Hodge, Klinger, Rogers or Ferguson should have had Hauritz's place in the original squad. That was poor judgement, and as many commentators had pointed out, could have cost us the series if it was 1-1, not 2-0.

It didn't so more hyperbole. We were 2-0 coming into this game. North went down at the last moment with gastro. We were forced to play McDonald. The original squad with two spinners was reasonable particularly given McGains horror day.

The McGain experiment has failed. Sorry folks. 93 runs in 10 overs is woeful. He bowled maybe 5 balls in total that were threatening, and most of those were in his first 2 overs late on Day 1. Too much short stuff and full tosses. At 37, persisting with him would unfortunately be a waste of time. Better off with Krejza, who at least has shown his potential to take wickets, and has time on his side.

He has got the 3rd day to redeem himself but the damage has been done. McGain came to the Test side with a modest Shield record but was seen as our best spinning hope. Australia has a real problem then. I felt for McGain, coming on with 209 on the board to defend and two SA batsman on top. But he melted and was terrible.

At the moment, none of McGann, Hauritz or Krejza are Test spinners. If they are not good enough then dont play them. I would not play a spinner for the sake of it. I'd play four quicks with North, Katich rolling the arms over.

Australia has some real problems.....

1. No spinner. Really tough outlook for the Ashes coming up.

2. Hussey continues his poor form. We cant afford to have Ponting and Clarke both making ducks. One of them must fire every time

3. Alot is resting on the shoulders of Johnson, Siddle and Hilf. They need support.

Aust 2/102 in the 2nd.

SA - 450 in front on the 1st dig.De Villiers sensational against some pretty feeble bowling at times. Siddle an exception.

Hussey and McDonald are playing for Test spots. Hussey does not want too many more failures. McDonald is average with the ball and non existent with the bat. He is no Test all rounder.

McGain has lost his Test spot. At least he joins a number of players who at least have worn the baggy green..... once. We need to find a spinner. However I dont know who that will be....Beau Casson??

It didn't so more hyperbole. We were 2-0 coming into this game. North went down at the last moment with gastro. We were forced to play McDonald. The original squad with two spinners was reasonable particularly given McGains horror day.

The fact that we won the first 2 tests doesn't vindicate the selectors' decision to take a squad with 5 spare bowlers and no spare batsman. Yes, it wouldn't have mattered if North hadn't had a severe but brief bout of gastro, but would you have been happy if at 1-1 we'd played the team we're playing now? I wouldn't.

At the moment, none of McGann, Hauritz or Krejza are Test spinners. If they are not good enough then dont play them. I would not play a spinner for the sake of it. I'd play four quicks with North, Katich rolling the arms over.

Agree. North, Katich, even Clarke can chip in with decent spin. Katich especially. That leaves room for a 4th quick which helps share the load around.

Aust 2/102 in the 2nd.

SA - 450 in front on the 1st dig.De Villiers sensational against some pretty feeble bowling at times. Siddle an exception.

Hussey and McDonald are playing for Test spots. Hussey does not want too many more failures. McDonald is average with the ball and non existent with the bat. He is no Test all rounder.

McGain has lost his Test spot. At least he joins a number of players who at least have worn the baggy green..... once. We need to find a spinner. However I dont know who that will be....Beau Casson??

Siddle continued to bowl with fire and agression all innings, and that's why I'd like to see Dirk Nannes included. Hilfy is just going for mine and unless he can generate late swing in England his days as a test bowler are numbered, he's just not threatening for long enough periods.

I can't see any value fast tracking a spinner, we just don't have one of test quality, Katich, Clark and North (if he can cement a spot) are good enough to roll out 20 overs an innings between them, but it needs to be supported with 4 genuine attacking bowlers. Johnson, Siddle, Clarke and Nannes would do plenty of damage IMO.

but would you have been happy if at 1-1 we'd played the team we're playing now? I wouldn't.

The fact is we werent so you are fussing over little and the also that North went down at the 11 hour. How many should we have on tour?

Agree. North, Katich, even Clarke can chip in with decent spin. Katich especially. That leaves room for a 4th quick which helps share the load around.

I'm not sure if its decent but it may have to do. As a consequence we may have to play a 4th quick.

Siddle continued to bowl with fire and agression all innings, and that's why I'd like to see Dirk Nannes included. Hilfy is just going for mine and unless he can generate late swing in England his days as a test bowler are numbered, he's just not threatening for long enough periods.

I can't see any value fast tracking a spinner, we just don't have one of test quality, Katich, Clark and North (if he can cement a spot) are good enough to roll out 20 overs an innings between them, but it needs to be supported with 4 genuine attacking bowlers. Johnson, Siddle, Clarke and Nannes would do plenty of damage IMO.

I agree. Johnson and Siddle are certainties. Hilfenhaus isn't, but will probably start in the first test in England just because he's a swinger and it generally swings in England. As for the 4th spot, maybe we'll see a return of either Lee or Stuart Clark. A bit of Ashes experience. I wouldn't rule either of them out. And if they're fit and bowling like they were 12 months ago (not guaranteed), then they'd complement the other bowlers well.

I like Nannes too, but if the selectors turned to Geeves and Magoffin in South Africa as cover, I'd suspect those two are in front of Nannes in the queue. And Bollinger, for that matter.

Hilfenhaus will be in his element in England.

I agree. Johnson and Siddle are certainties. Hilfenhaus isn't, but will probably start in the first test in England just because he's a swinger and it generally swings in England. As for the 4th spot, maybe we'll see a return of either Lee or Stuart Clark. A bit of Ashes experience. I wouldn't rule either of them out. And if they're fit and bowling like they were 12 months ago (not guaranteed), then they'd complement the other bowlers well.

While we can argue about who the four bowlers should be, I think it's clear we should include four bona fide bowlers in the side.

On the note of Lee, he might have Ashes experience but I'm not sure his record's that great, is it? I heard the stats from the 2005 tour and they were pretty ordinary.

if the selectors turned to Geeves and Magoffin in South Africa as cover, I'd suspect those two are in front of Nannes in the queue. And Bollinger, for that matter.

Yeah, he's a fair way back in the queue.

I'm not sure if its decent

I think Katich's decent with the ball and Clarke seems to have the magic touch.

Too much short stuff and full tosses. At 37, persisting with him would unfortunately be a waste of time.

I think this is the view the selectors will take.

I hope he gets a chance to bowl in the second innings, if only for his own pride.

I like Nannes too, but if the selectors turned to Geeves and Magoffin in South Africa as cover, I'd suspect those two are in front of Nannes in the queue. And Bollinger, for that matter.

Didn't Bollinger come into the picture when Nannes was injured. Nannes has finished the season like a steam train.

If they decide not to take a front line spinner, Nannes might be closer than you think.

I think they will take Stuart Clarke to England as well if fit. He offers good variation on the others. I think Lee is finished. His last tour of England was mediocre and they want bowlers who can strike. His pilot light blew out 12 months ago. Once it is gone, it does not come back. I dont want to see another Jason Gillespie episode in England.

Hilfenhaus will be in his element in England.

I hope so.

While we can argue about who the four bowlers should be, I think it's clear we should include four bona fide bowlers in the side.

Correct. I dont think McDonald will go to England

I think Katich's decent with the ball and Clarke seems to have the magic touch.

It will be interesting to find out why Katich did not bowl until there were 600 runs on the board. Surely after McGains murdering on the 2nd day, he should have been bowled.

What's the story with Clarkes back? He seems restricted batting and I am not sure he is fit to bowl ATM.

I hope he gets a chance to bowl in the second innings, if only for his own pride.

There will be a 2nd innings for the SA batsman!

There will be a 2nd innings for the SA batsman!

That's why I'm hoping he'll do well if he gets another bowl, rather than asserting that I'd like to see him do well when he gets another bowl.

It's looking even less likely now that Katich has been dismissed. I'm not sure the go-slow is the right decision...