Dees2014

What an old grump you are Old Dee. Why don't you enjoy the moment and acknowledge we are now on the right path, making the right decisions and be just a little - not too much mind, dare I say it - optimistic! Now that really would be a change!

Hogan, Clark, Dawes, Viney, Tapscott, MacDonald, Frawley, Gawn,

Who? Burns, Rodan, Howe, - I don't think so. We do not have a Wonamerri, Betts? We need a crumber to support our star big man forwards. Urgently. Period.

Do you really think a contract would stop the right trade? It hasn't in the past, it won't this time. In fact it makes a player more valuable to the other side. I like Fitz - I think he has huge potential, an amazing runner for someone of his size, and a good mark and good kick. He has matured hugely this year. It is just we have a forward line overcrowded with talls, and we lack a.class crumbling forward. Unless we are prepared to play him on the wing - something I have canvassed on here previously but I doubt very much that we would be so bold (although an impossible matchup for the opposition), I think he would have huge trade value for a side like Carlton who have a surplus of class small forwards but lack a high marking, bulky tall forward. Fitzy would be the perfect fit for them. If we are going to get the best out of the trade period this time where we have high draft pick currency, we have to give a bit to get a lot. Unfortunateley we may have to let some of our favourite players go to strengthen the overall team. Having said that though, I would be delighted to see Fitzy in the red and blue again next year. He could develop into anything.

Good post. One of the reasons I raised this subject is our supporter base understandably has been all gloom and doom. I think one of the first people to put a positive spin on things was, strangely enough, Paul Roos, when he did an evaluation of our list in the Herald-Sun (a paper I can't abide incidentally ). He basically said that the MFC does not have a bad list, and with the right leadership it could be quite successful (a view clearly shared by the AFL). I tried to put some detail in that. There are clearly serious gaps in the list, but this is what trading should be about and with us likely to have a high draft pick and a priority pick this year, and with competent recruitment staff (something we haven't had for 10 years) we ought to be able to fashion a star midfield out of that. I would not be so confident of this with the previous regime (the Ollie Wines issue, and Hannath issue still rankles), but with a football department effectively sanctioned by the AFL, we surely will not be saddled with the incompetents of the past.

Port Adelaide were regarded as a basket case this time last year.....

With a new experienced coach (my bet is now Rodney Eade - a very good choice i think), a professional, and highly expert board, and a football department hand-picked by the AFL, we have an opportunity to fix the MFC malaise once and for all. So where is the on-field improved performance going to come from? Below is my summary: Name Performance in 2013 Rated Predicted Performance in Difference Ranking Status in 2014 out of 10 2014 Rated out of 10 Nathan Jones 7 9 2 24 Vice Captain Jack Watts 3 7 4 10 Jimmy Toumpas 1 6 5 6 Chris Dawes 3 7 4 10 Captain Jack Viney 2 8 6 5 James Frawley 3 8 5 6 Leadership Team (LT) Jack Trengove 2 7 5 6 LT Shannon Byrnes 3 Retired Mitch Clark 0 8 8 1 LT Colin Sylvia 2 5 3 17 Jordie McKenzie 1 5 4 10 Lynden Dunn 3 6 3 17 David Rodan 5 Retired Sam Blease 3 7 4 10 James Strauss 2 Traded Colin Garland 6 8 2 24 LT Cameron Pedersen 1 De-listed Josh Tynan 2 5 3 17 Tom McDonald 5 7 2 24 Daniel Nicholson 4 5 1 29 Tom Gillies 1 De-listed Joel Macdonald 2 Retired James Sellar 2 De-listed Jack Grimes 4 8 4 10 LT Michael Evans 3 6 3 17 Dom Barry 0 3 3 17 Rookie Dean Kent 3 5 2 24 Luke Tapscott 3 6 3 17 Aaron Davey 5 Retired Max Gawn 4 8 4 10 Jeremy Howe 3 7 4 10 Neville Jetta 3 Traded Mark Jamar 2 7 5 6 Troy Davis 1 5 4 10 Jake Spencer 3 Traded Rory Taggert 0 4 4 10 Rookie Rohan Bail 2 Traded Matt Jones 5 7 2 24 Dean Terlich 5 7 2 24 Jack Fitzpatrick 6 Traded for a Carlton small forward Jesse Hogan 0 8 8 1 Two gun mids via early draft pick and priority pick X 0 8 8 1 Y 0 8 8 1 We also need a young ruckman (Hannath?) and an additional small forward Is this enough to get us in the eight? It might be......

Yes BOG at Casey two weeks in a row. With a full pre-season next year he will indeed be a monster.

Yes I seem to remember there were several television commentators at the time in 2009 arguing whether we would win one or two premierships. Bailey certainly played a Geelong style, very much high scoring through the corridor - very much suited to our future forward half of Clarke, Hogan, Dawes, Fitzpatrick and Howe. In this quick ball movement and bombing it long will be vital. I would suggest the Bailey style would be very well suited to what looks like our future team as long as we can retain our key backmen like Frawley, who has most recently been rumoured to be off to St..Kilda, which maybe would not be surprising given the family connection. But then again, I'm pretty sure they will be on the bottom longer than we will be.

At the moment, I think ASADA are continuing to carry out their investigation very thoroughly. I think there are dangers on the horizon though, and they are: 1) when the infamous press conference was held in Canberra about drugs in sport, Tony Abbott and his sports spokesperson sought to make political capital out of it by trying to somehow apportion blame to the Federal Government ("how could they make it happen on their watch??? Typical government incompetence" etc etc). There are some in the Liberal Party (I know, I'm a member) who have sought to see this as a political matter, and something that can be turned against the government. When they get into power, I'm not sure if they won't try to bury it by nobbling ASADA as a means of demonstrating they are dealing with it effectively. There are some pretty strange behaviors going on politically at the moment, and in this climate nothing would surprise me, and 2) there are extensive negotiations going on behind closed doors between Essendon's lawyers, Hird's lawyers, and the AFL's lawyers. In such circumstances deals tend to get done. Neither party wants to end up in court, but I think Hird's hubris may lead in that direction, and in order to do avoid that it would not surprise me if the AFL came out with a very much watered down penalty eg fines only. The hope in both those instances though, is that an international body, WADA, has ultimate say, even if a newly elected Abbott Government nobbles ASADA, or the AFL goes weak at the knees to avoid court. Ride on John Fahey.

Couple of comments. Neither ASADA nor WADA need to prove that individuals have taken drugs. Circumstantial evidence is enough. How many times have we heard athletes who have been subsequently proven to be guilty say initially "I have been tested plenty of times and never been found to be positive" they don't need to be. All they need is strong circumstantial evidence. They have that in spades with Essendon. ASADA does the heavy legwork with this, and still may charge Essendon and the players with infraction notices, but at the end of the day, even if ASADA don't act, WADA can and have acted in such circumstances. WADA has ultimate power here, so even if Essendon, ASADA and the AFL do a deal to keep it all out of the courts, WADA can still act. In my view, they have more than enough circumstantial evidence to do so, and I believe they will - eventually!

I think we need to remember Neeld was the fulcrum of serious internal division within the club. Both Todd Viney and Neil Craig had continuous run-ins with him last year on both selection issues and drafting. Both were against his dislike of Maloney, Martin (surely a wasted talent) and Petterd, which was the direct reason why they left, leaving an even bigger hole in our midfield. They were also against exiting senior players like Green, Bruce and Junior which left a gaping hole in our onfield leadership, and directly lead to the lack of development in many of our first and second round draft picks. Neeld effectively threw away six or seven years of development which should have left us in the top half of the ladder with a brilliant young list. We were seen for a lot of 2008/2009 as THE up and comer in the competition and the one in the "also rans" who would come out of the pack and challenge for the premiership. We could always over that period go to the football and feel that we could on our day beat anyone. But we did not count on the internal division and the divisive leadership of Cameron Schwab who finally managed to roll Dean Bailey after the disastrous trip to Geelong - something that could have been predicted for such a young list. Schwab was certainly poisonous to a high performance culture, but then adding Neeld to this was not like pooring petrol on a raging fire, but like throwing in an atom bomb. The whole place became disfunctional. From then on, everything we did destroyed value. Craig and Viney tried to put their fingers in the dyke but to no avail. The worst of the worst was list management. Apparently, both of them believed we should not so easily give up first round draft picks such as Morton and Cook, nor should we be so ready to get rid of our older more experienced players, thereby depriving our list of badly needed experience. Neeld was the source of the impression that the MFC "eat their young". Under him, the regime was totally disfunctional and leaderless, but that same accusation could be directed at the board, particular both former chairmen. The board as a whole was derelict in their duty of ensuring the right leaders were in place and functioning. Finally, we have, going right back, had a "cargo cult" mentality (remember Peter Moore/kelvin templeton, the Jarman brothers, Joe Gutnick, Jack Watts, and now Jesse Hogan. Even Ronald Dale Barassi - although he did at least lay the ground work for future success). All at one time or other were seen as an instant solution for our lack of the ultimate prize. What we don't seem to understand is that excellent Organisations need to be built from the ground up with a commitment to the best at all levels, in a culture which allows excellent people to thrive and contribute. We now though through Peter Jackson have an opportunity to build such an Organisation, recognizing that this takes commitment and patience. Fortunately, we have the full support of the AFL, certainly the most successful sporting Organisation in Australia, and recognized as one of the best in the world. Clearly Dimetriou has run out of patience with Melbourne and has decided to fix it once and for all, to which we all should say "hooray!" This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to turn the MFC into the premier Organisation it should always have been. We need patience, and it needs our support. We should also never again put up with the mediocrity as we have so often done in the past.

More likely Fitzpatrick IMO. As much as I admire his year, and love the fact that he is so athletic and fast for a big man, I think he will be trade bait. How about Fitz for Garlett?

Stephen Danks has a full record of what was given to whom, how much and when, he has not been interviewed by ASADA, but they now have the power to force him to an interview following the recent legislation by the Federal Government. Likewise, he can now be forced to handover the documentation. It is also true that the world body (WADA) has the power to issue penalties which can over-ride anything EFC, the AFL, or ASADA issue. If they believe the penalties are too light they can, and have often, intervened. Essendon and Hird can spend as much money as they like on PR, and try and build support in the broader community, but it will make zero difference to WADA.. There are several journalists eg Robbo in the Herald-Sun who was inclined to support the Hird campaign, until he received a confidential back-grounding from ASADA and the AFL. He now thinks Essendon are "dead-meat" and they should take it on the chin now and should write off 2013 to get all their penalties over this year.. You cannot escape WADA, and neither should you be able to.

Oh really. Read what I wrote. It has not been canvassed in this way. It is about time we. Called it as it is...

What I dont understand about the whole crap about Essendon is that their objectives have been obvious from the start I.e. their intention has been to get an advantage by providing chemical inducements to their advantage. If this happened in 2012, medical advice is that the advantage would continue in terms of players' physical development for several years including the 2013 final series. How could they possibly claim 2013 is clean with them participating in the series. To be frank they cant. Their season is finished -or at least it should be. The best analogy I can see for Hird is that he is the Stuart O'Grady off the AFL - a brilliant public image, but fundamentally a cheat. Such a pity for such an attractive personality to be seen to be so flawed.q

Whilst I think it is good to see the passion in this thread, if we look at the longer term, there were very encouraging signs tonight. It reminded me a little of the preseason win again Port. A second string side had a red hot go. Almost for the first time this year I saw some hope in the mid field. Jones as usual was outstanding, Viney will be an A grader, Trengove is slowly getting back to his first year form ,mckenzie did his job, Sylvia is important in the middle and Spencer seems to be getting better every game. We won many of the centre square clearances, and the stoppages, which is more than you can say for all of this year and last. If we trade our high picks for some free agent mids we will be very competitive. Ollie wines decision still rankles though. Next year we will have a forward set up including Clark, hogan, Fitzpatrick, Dawes, Howe, Watts and Davies. Almost the best set up in the league - well at least in the top four I would suggest. Our backline will be much better with an improved midfield because it will not be bombarded continually. I would trade for two class midfielders and a crumbling forward, preferably one of Carlton's mosquito fleet. If this is successful, and with Roos or Eade as coach, we will be in the eight next year, mark my words.

Oh I heartily disagree. Neitz played in a very successful team and I would argue he was the heart and soul of that team. He WAS a superstar, and a most underrated one by the AFL cognosenti. He in my view was very much superior to both Lloyd and Gehrig. Compare him to Carey or Hart and you might have an argument - but both of those were once in a generation.

A focus on the actual performances of individual players, rather than inane point scoring would be nice. Do you actually have opinions of your own? I mean about the players rather than fellow posters. If so, post them, then we can judge for ourselves.

I know these are not three words, but I think it is worth a bit more detail at this stage of the season. Overall, I thought it was a step forward along admittedly a very long road this evening, but at least we are nearly always competitive, and have found some very promising emerging players under Craig Trengove - still lacks his first year zip, but is improving. Will get it back next year freed of the captaincy Grimes - safe and steady. Great leader. Must play on-ball, next to Viney. Wines would be handy - another recruiting stuff up N.Jones - good tough and under, but was well tagged and failed to get into open space, but still serviceable. Watts - a mostly impressive performance, but still too often gets pushed around and lacks intensity. Roos would be really good for him I think Toumpas - someone who has to find form and confidence in the two's (a bit like the Bombers are doing with Joe Daniher). We need to be very careful we don't destroy this kid by expecting too much, too early. He WILLbe a star, but maybe not for a couple of year's. Dawes - good at times, but a bit inconsistent. At least though he does command a presence, and shows the value of having a big, experienced, premiership winning forward. Will be invaluable next year when we have the two emerging stars Hogan and Fitzpatrick, next to him and Clark. Viney - this was the first game he has played for the Dees where he showed of his full intensity, and never say die playing style. Justifies the hype. Will be a star like his father. Frawley - season's best game, and is getting his mojo back. Like Watts, is thriving under Craig Byrnes - ok at times, but still think he was a wasted pick just like Pederson, Gillies and Roden. Sylvia - at least Colin appears to be trying, where you could not say that under Neeld (or Bailey for that matter). There are some good signs. Dunn - was good. Enjoy his long kicking. A much maligned player by many Demon fans. I think there are a number of worse players playing now Blease - as long as you see him for what he is ie a breakout, on the burst, outsider. Works best on the wing where he can do his own thing and damage the opposition. Is improving under Craig, and will be a valuable player in the future. Garland - a significant loss, let's hope it is not long term. Will be one of our key players in the next couple of years. One of the real in field leaders at the Club. We need him back. McDonald - quiet game, and still too many blunders by foot for mine. Needs intense skill work in the offseason cos mostly gets the ball well. Kent - lacked awareness again. Although a good kick and tries hard, for mine is too slow at this level particularly at half forward. Can't see him staying much longer. Davey - has had a resurrection under Craig, has some of his old zip back (to use a Ruddism!) Gawn - max has been disappointing in the last two weeks. I think at this:stage in his career he is probably a better second ruck resting up forward than the prime mover. I think he will be good in time, but has a lot to learn. Howe - at the moment asked to play as the high marking forward. He will be much better in a hogan/Fitz/Clark/Dawes forward set up where he won't be the central target.in fact he will be devastating in that set up M.Jones - average game from him Terlich - disposal still problematic, but continues to show promise Fitzpatrick - impressive, and is an imposing figure. The biggest improver at the club, particularly under Craig. I just hope he will not be sold off at year's end for a midfielder as I think he might be in view of our potential surplus of big forwards. As I have said here in the past, let's be radical and play Fitz and watts on opposite wings - both fast, good marks, and will be impossible to match up on. Clisby - had little influence. Can't see him lasting.

Play watts on one wing and Fitzy on the other. Impossible to match up with. Both big, both fast, both good kicks. A match winning combination!

I understand that after he was grilled on air "on the Couch" about the Melbourne job, Paul Roos said to Mike Sheahan that "actually Melbourne has a pretty good list which has been underdeveloped". Sort of might say he is at least thinking about it. Would really like though for Neil Craig be director of football though. I think we would then really have elite as coach, football director, and CEO. RIDE ON 2014.

Yes, a great game today. I've got no doubt he will be a key player for us in the future. Having watched him often at Casey, he was always a standout in as much as he has elite speed for someone so tall and use both at Casey very effectively, but I suspect he was so hidebound by Neeld that he was not allowed to show off his natural talents. He used his speed, marking ability and strength today. A hey, he can even kick straight . It is interesting that all of Dawes, Fitzy, Clark, Howe and hogan are first class kicks for goal. All we have to do is get it down to them now.

6. Fitzy (a beauty today - starting to show his potential, maybe an example where we didi develop a young player over four years) 5. Dawes (I bet Collingwood tragics would find it very difficult watching him in the red and blue - he wasn't supposed to kick straight, was he?). Oh and by the way he is only 24. A great deal for the long term Dees 4. Terlich a great mature age pick up 3. M Jones slotted in nicely 2. N Jones - keeps on producing quality 1. Watts - he is showing why he is a neutral forward. Also showed some fight today which was pleasing.

It is interesting that Craig went for Dunn over Pederson on Saturday, even though there was clearly going to be a mismatch in height in our back half because of it. It cost us dearly at times, particularly in the dying minutes of the game, and could even have cost us the game.. Personally, I think Dunn is too small for a tall back. He is better suited to the wing it HBF, where his run and kicking abilities can be better used.