Dees2014

I understand it goes something like this: 1. The AFL tribunal brings down their rulings at the end of the current hearings before it on the current infraction notices. During the hearings, ASADA will table their evidence, and the players will mount their defences. This is totally separate from the court case current being conducted by James Hird. 2. If either party disagrees with the verdict, they can appeal, but after it is all done, if WADA disagrees with the outcomes, they can take it to CAS in Switzerland. Based on the current evidence, they would be very likely to succeed in such an appeal, as they usually do. Following these proceedings though, it is very likely there will be a Worksafe investigation into workpractices at ESSENDON under HIRD which could very likely result in severe penalties for those involved in admin including HIRD

You are joking aren't you? Of course they have. This whole PR facade has been orchestrated from beginning to end. The irony thought is that however much Tania and James spend on it, it will make no difference. WADA will get them in the end. Their sociopathetic personalities will go into overdrive, and they will be very much poorer for the experience, The AFL will be well rid of them, and we will all be better off.

I wouldn't be so sure about this. Their crimes if found guilty in my view would be very unlikely to be covered by insurance. It is early days, but after a guilty verdict by WADA etc they will be left with no friends and most insurance claims will be null and void. Then there are the law suits: if they are guilty there is no insurance cover which I am aware of which covers criminal activity, and this will be criminal activity . Even a wealthy club like ESSENDON will go broke confronted by this.

We need to let the law take its course. Hird and co can show contempt for everyone but themselves, but in doing so they are just shooting themselves in the foot time and time again. These are just the sociopathic tendencies of Tania and James and it will leave them broken and alone. Once the findings are in, they will be left with no friends and considerably poorer however much Tania might want to continue in the courts. It will be a slow, very painful burn for them, but no more than they deserve considering their contempt for their players, their club, the competition and their sport. WADA will ensure their demise, of that, there is no doubt. And only right and proper too!

Totally disagree. This is a well sourced article, with considerable inside knowledge. I'm glad she had the courage to write it. Many wouldn't have, given the intimidating tactics of the Murdoch press, and the criminal connections in the "Carlton crew".

I am not always a fan of Rita as she is usually on the extreme right wing of the Liberal Party, but she has really nailed it in this article. She has very deep connections into Carlton, and I suggest what she spouts here is almost certainly a reflection of all the other AFL clubs except Essendon. All of them want Hird and his band of cheats punished. None will object when the true verdict is handed down in Switzerland by CAS in mid 2015. Hird, Little and their mates will be left with no friends, and receive their just deserts.

WADA would still get them. The AFL will ultimately have little to do with it at CAS.

It might be as a result of Nathan's negotiations...

rEhh...it is called cheating, and that is why they will go!

Journos take vacation strategically. There is no way known that they would be absent from a major breaking story unless they did it by choice. That is my point

Just another planted story by the Hird publicity machine in the tame Murdoch press. Has nothing to do with any real insight or for that matter the truth. It was always thus...

Carro did, as did Patrick smith, but then again, they are the only AFL journos which know anything about this, I find it fascinating that both those individuals go very silent when these court cases happen. They know much more than they are letting on. They must take great delight when their colleagues/competitors make complete [censored] of themselves when they swallow the Hirds' relentless propaganda

OD Have you taken an optimist pill. That is the first optimistic post I have ever seen from you!

Let's see what they present in Court. Even what we have seen so far suggests they (ASADA) have a lot more than they have let on so far. They are playing their cards close to their chest. It is interesting when independent Judges have examined all the ASADA evidence, they have all recommended the process proceeds. Even when the new Abbott government came into office saying they wanted the case to be closed as soon as possible, their own judge appointed to review the ASADA evidence enthusiastically endorsed their direction. The case looks overwhelming, and I for one think ASADA will come out of this pretty well, even though they have been asked to do a very difficult task for which they were never adequately resourced.

The NRL case is quite different. It only lasted for weeks not years, it was not systematic and only covered a few players, and the evidence of what was taken was circumstantial at best. Crucially though, Cronulla fully cooperated and at the end of the day admitted guilt, as did the players. ESSENDON and to some extent the AFL have fought this every inch of the way, admitted no guilt, but the evidence which is starting to emerge from ASADA in the latest court cases appears to be overwhelming. It was systematic, prolonged, lethal to the players involved and clearly designed to cheat.and still the players and the club admit no guilt and maintain they did nothing wrong, blame ASADA for delaying the settlement while doing everything possible to tie it up in the Courts. If you look at WADA's international record, they do not take kindly to this sort of behaviour and have a record of winning in CAS. Hird and his cabal of sympathisers in the Australian media can grandstand as much as they like in Australia, but it will make no difference when the WADA/ASADA case eventually is presented in a Swiss court.

It isn't ultimately up to the AFL. They can grandstand and manipulate all they like, but ultimately WADA and CAS have the final say. Hird has wasted his money, our time, and the players' good health.

Hird and his apologists in News Limited are at it again, all the time trying to destroy ASADA's case in the Court of Public opinion. I was talking to a very senior investigator the other day, an ESSENDON supporter, but a reasonable and very knowledgable man, and his angle on it was that without having these three key witnesses in court , and therefore have the ability to cross examine tham,that the ASADA case will collapse. I think that is now the Little line too. I have said all all along that I don't believe anything will be resolved in Australian courts or through the AFL Tribunal processes. It will end up in Switzland at the CAS after WADA's appeal, well away from the politics and grandstanding which has been the hallmark of this episode all along. Justice will be done.

The thing to remember is that both the AFL and EFC are irrelevant to the outcomes here. It will be ultimately be up to WADA and CAS, both under the juristiction of SWISS law. Thankfully, the mascinations and politics of this in Australia will be irrelevant, and they will get suitable punishment.

I think it is interesting, with all the words talked about this on Demonland (and I am as guilty as anyone), that at the end of the day it comes down to the law. However much the various parties may posture (and there has been serious posturing in this case), what I believe will happen is that there will be just penalties given out at the end of the day. The bully boys who have been largely responsible for this farse to continue for so long will get their days in court, but at the end of it all justice will be done. The Press, who in my view have been totally unprincipled in this (with a few very honourable exceptions) will go away with their tails between their legs , but don't count on any personal reflection. It won't happen. In a just world the two or three major protagonists in the Press, should lose their jobs (in any other profession they would on the grounds of incompetence), but don't count on it. Let us see what eventuates, but in a country where lying seems to be seen as smart in public life, I, anyway, have high hopes that the international processes to do with drugs in sport will do their job, and those responsible for the ESSENDON disgrace will be punished big time.

My understanding is if they are rubbed out they have to serve that immediately. It is likely that a number of coaches (hopefully not Goodwin, although I wouldn't count on it) will also be rubbed out, I suspect in Hird's case for life. What ESSENDON do to field a team will be largely up to the AFL after WADA enforce their bans. I suspect they will be allowed some sort of special draft where they will be allowed to draft the best of the rest to replace the 34. What this does to salary caps who knows but they are largely AFL rules based anyway, which the AFL has the power to relax, but what I am absolutely certain of it will result in most of the 34 litigating against the AFL, EFC and Hird. It could go on for a couple more years.

Mmmmmm.....it is never a good thing to have unprincipled, and cheating individuals controlling our game. The consequences of Hird coming to power opens up all the other sociopaths and militant litigants to believe the path to power in the AFL is via vexatious behaviour and ignorance of the truth. Sometimes I really do not think a lot of AFL supporters understand what is at stake here. In my view it is like excusing Putin and thinking that's that is ok. Distorted minds are never a good way to go in any walk of life. Sport is just the latest manifestation of it.

Well they might try it but there is no way WADA would allow it. It is just this sort of rule fudging that WADA was set up to prevent. There is no way around it for ESSENDON and hird, they are cooked.

Sorry BB, I think we usually agree on this. My point is that the players will be handed individual penalties, which may be different from player to player, but they will take effect immediately, and they will ban the individual players not the team, although I acknowledge that there is a provision in the WADA rules which says that under certain circumstance if more than I think 3 players are banned for effectively the same offence that the team will then be banned. What happens here remains to be seen but player bans seen certain. This means the EFC may be able to field a team if they can scape together enough players. This of course opens up all sorts of complications re salary caps, draft options, list concessions. I'm sure the AFL has a contingency plan, but it will open up all sorts of legal and ethical challenges re AFL rules which we all know if they were challenged in the courts would be thrown out under trade practices laws. It opens up a hornets nest. The AFL has a real nightmare on its hands to try and manage it.

WADA/ASADA has no capacity to consider the health of a local competition. Once found guilty and sentenced they are required to take the penalty immediately, just like criminal law at least that is my view.

Although this is appealing, I think a ban by WADA means a ban from playing the sport at all ie not allowed to play the game at all. I think ESSENDON will have to field a reserves team if at all.