Dees2014

The AFL do not have to directly interfere to get the outcome they are looking for. Organisations get these sorts of outcomes by appointing people to conduct enquiries who agree with them. Tony Abbott uses this technique all the time (think Whinshuttle, a rabid climate denier, heading the enquiry into the Clean Energy Targets, or the new Treasury Head, a Tea Party loyalist, being brought back from America to implement an extreme right wing anti deficit agenda). Inthe AFL's case, they merely needed to appoint judge sympathetic to the Essendon cause and viability of the AFL competition, and they would get the outcome they did. It almost never is overt interference.

Don't agree at all. Most of them are under 25 and the bans would come in at the height of their careers, what is left of them. In any case I believe as I have said constantly on here WADA will win at CAS and the bans will be enacted this year.

I know some of you think I am talking through my hat on this and have been asked on here and through private email to rank out of ten what the chances of a successful WADA appeal to CAS might be. At the moment I would put it at an 8. I am currently researching the internal processes of both WADA and CAS, and will post a detailed piece on this in the next couple of days. From this I am even more confident they will act. I quote in the piece John Coates, VP of the IOC, president of the AOC, and even more interestingly Chairman of the Board of CAS, and a distinguished lawyer in his own right. In the quote he makes it crystal clear he holds all athletes personally responsible for what goes into their mouthes and he includes all wealthy football codes in this. He has zero tolerance for non enforcement of this principle. In private, apparently he is even more dogmatic about this, and thinks the wealthy football codes are trying to put one over all of us on this, This is a view shared by nearly all the Olympic movement and minor sports. They think the wealthy football codes think there is one rule for them and another for all the rest, and would love to see CAS bring them into line. I also think that WorkSafe hold if anything greater danger to the EFC and Hird than CAS. So far, although I wouldn't rule this out, they have not been nobled by Daniel Andrews who is an Essendon fanatic, and as Premier has the power to partially influence the priorities of WorkSafe, although he would be playing on dangerous ground with the Unions if he did so. The penalties from WorkSafe are far more severe and personal in the event of a finding of a breach of their code, including jail terms for directors and major instigators like Hird and Danks. I'm not saying it will go as far as this, but the penalties will be severe and would certainly rule Hird out of further employment in the football industry. Finally, I was talking the other day to one of melbourne's most distinguished surgeons and he was saying that the medical profession has no doubt there was an illegal program going on at Essendon and if WADA doesn't get them now they will get them in the next 12 months because all the players' blood samples are in the blood bank and there will be a test available for Beta4 within 12 months. This is the way they eventually nabbed Armstrong, O'Grady, Hodge and Matt White for blood doping. At the very least it will prove the justice of a positive CAS outcome. As I keep on saying this is far from over, then there is the book from Caro and the mini series from channel nine....!

That is not a silly suggestion at all. It will have surprise attached to it, VDB has the size and pace to match Fyfe, and it frees up Bernie to do what he does best - make mischief with on-ballers and defences. I must say I like the idea of Bernie free roaming cos he can be so damaging, but I absolutely agree we need to shut down their guns. They will not have heard of VDB, or will see him as irrelevant, so let's go for it and let him make hay..... go for it

I actually think mo64 is largely right, especially about Toumpas and sadly Gawn, although I would given Maxy a couple more years to mature as I think his upside is huge. Toumpas disposal is simply not up to par. He should remain in the 2's until,he fixes it. Unfortunate, because he is a real ball magnet and we are not overly endowed with them, but there is little point in that if he more often than not gives the ball up to the opposition. Disagree on Jones, but the rest pretty fair.

We shall see who is right. I look forward to the day...

Well said Choke. That is what i have been arguing, amongst other things, all along. WorkSafe is a far more serious consequence in many ways than WADA. They are far more prescriptive, and the actions are far easier to prove. But as you all know, I still think WADA will win through CAS, but as far as the consequences for individuals, particularly the Hirds and the "mafia" who support him, WorkSafe will be far more severe and the consequences huge. The fall out will be enormous.

Well let me put a scenario to you. If CAS can get Danks or any of his drug supplier cronies to testify under oath that records of the drugs taken were indeed kept and they were beta4 (which Danks has consistently maintained- wrongly - is legal under the WADA code), and that when all of them left Essendon they left these records behind at the club, then "on the balance of probabilities" this surely amounts to destruction of the evidence. You cannot get out of criminal prosecution by destroying evidence and then saying you don't know. Under these circumstances Essendon and their players would be cooked by both CAS and WorkSafe.

Well there are plenty of precedents where deliberate destruction of evidence and false testimony can land you in greater penalties than original charges, and there are provisions in the WADA code for just such eventuality. They also take into account "balance of probabilities", so much of the evidence gathered by ASADA and deemed either inadmissible or irrelevant by the AFL Tribunael may well be taken seriously, particularly the growing probability that evidence WAS actually destroyed. I know Dank has little credibility, but he has since the AFL Tribunal hearing come out and said that he kept full records but left them at the club when he left. This amounts to an accusation they were destroyed. Bringing this before CAS under oath would take the case down a deeper and deeper hole, and one I am sure WorkSafe would be very interested in examining as it goes to the heart of health and safety issues, and they take a very dim view indeed of evidence being withheld or destroyed.

Yes Macca - fair question. I would have thought ASADA (and therefore through them WADA) would have had access to all the documents they demanded (unless they were first destroyed of course). It is possible I suppose that there could be some specifically to do with Health & Safety, and the compliance thereof, which may not interest ASADA although somehow I doubt it. In any case, my understanding is that Worksafe has access to all ASADA documents including interviews and legal opinions/documents. It is also my understanding that Worksafe deliberately resisted going in to Essendon until the ASADA investigation was completed in order not to duplicate or interfere with it. There is also the ongoing issue of cost of course which is ever present in these circumstances.

Err....destruction of evidence is just about the bottom of the barrel in the Worksafe World. They will be treated much more harshly because of it than the insipid AFL Tribunal. Watch this space...

I quite like this, but based on what I saw last Sunday, Toumpas is nowhere near ready. Attracts the ball well, but continually gives it up both by hand and foot. Fitzpatrick though was good down back and is not a bad ruck backup. I would say: OUT: Kent, Jetta IN: Fitzpatrick, Grimes.

It is by no means the first time Hird has recruited tame academics. He has form, and has mostly been wrong. Just another one of the Hird PR machine. Do you want me to name the rest?

Redleg, I can't think of a less contentious comment I have made on here than "all barristers are guns for hire". Many of my family are either lawyers or barristers, and so are their friends. They all, almost to a man and a woman, salivate at the prospect of getting on the gravy train of Essendon and the Hirds. There is never a mention of the morality of it. And perhaps neither should there be. That is how our legal system works. Everyone is entitled to a defence as the saying goes. Where I differ a bit from this is that having worked at senior levels of corporate life and often with PR companies, I have seen a number senior executives refuse to do certain unethical things that PR operatives sometimes propose. The genius of the Burnside appointment is that he has this humanitarian image, so in the eyes of some has more credibility, but at the end of the day, i'm sorry, but he is just a "gun for hire". We should all just accept it for what it is, and don't ever expect any morality from the legal profession, except judges of course where moral judgements are made all the time, usually to the satisfaction of most. The irony is that most judges are drawn from the ranks of barristers.

I was putting together a new post on the background working of WADA, and its key players at the weekend (I will post it in the next couple of days), and came across a list of noteworthy supporter of all clubs. It is clearly a couple of years old but i think revealing nevertheless. i'm sure many of you have seen it already. Adelaide Football Club Lleyton Hewitt (Tennis player) (#1 ticket holder) David Hicks (Guantanamo Bay detainee) Mark Holden (Australian Idol Judge/Music Producer) Alexander Downer (Former Foreign Minister of Australia) Guy Sebastian (singer and first winner of Australian Idol) Graham Cornes Adam Scott (Golfer) Bruce McAvaney (sports commentator) Ryan Fitzgerald (comedian) Brisbane Lions Greg Norman (Golfer) (former #1 ticket holder) Julie Anthony (Singer) Andrew Bartlett (former Australian politician) Rob Elliott (Game show host) Colin Friels (Actor) Shane_Watson (Cricketer) Peter Hollingworth (former Governor-General of Australia and former Archbishop of Brisbane) Cheryl Kernot (former politician) Bill Lawry (former Australian cricketer, current commentator) Peter Marcato (sports radio personality) Kieran Perkins (retired Olympic swimmer) Pat Rafter (retired tennis player) Kevin Rudd (Australian Prime Minister) Cyril Gilbert (President of the Queensland RSL) Dick Johnson & Steven Johnson (V8 Supercar Champion and son) Bert Newton (Australian television personality) Carlton Football Club Mike Williamson (broadcaster) Megan Gale Jo Silvagni (nee Bailey) Chrissie Swan (Radio Host) Andy Lee (Radio Host) Olivia Newton John (Actress) Richard Pratt (Business Man and Former Club President) Dave Hughes (comedian) Tina Arena (singer) Steve Hooker (pole vaulter) Collingwood Football Club Eddie Mcguire (Club President) Jeff Joffa Coaffe (Cheerquad Leader) Jo Hall (Newsreader) Alisha Camplin (Olympic Skier) John Brumby (Politician) Tony Jones (News Reporter) Peter Helier (Comedian) Jo Stanley (Radio Presenter) Mark Chopper Reid (Comedian) Bruce Mansfield (Radio Announcer) Darren James (Radio Announcer) Colleen Hewitt (Singer) Essendon Football Club Charlie Pickering Jennifer Keyte (newsreader) Peter Costello Andrew Peacock Andrew Bogut (NBA Basketballer) Steve Irwin (The Crocodile Hunter) R.I.P Geoff Dixon (Qantas CEO) Anthony Callea (Australian Singer/Performer) Jim Bacon (Former Tasmanian Premier) Nick Giannopoulos (actor) Brooke Hanson (Olympic swimmer) Peter Garrett (Politician and singer for Midnight Oil) Brian Mannix (singer) Craig Lowndes (V8 Supercar Driver) Ian Chappell (former Australian cricket captain) Fremantle Football Club Rove McManus (media personality) Kim Beazley (politician, diplomat and academic) Tim Winton (novelist) Carmen Lawrence (former Premier) Nick O'Hern (golfer) Alan Carpenter (former Premier) Luc Longley (retired professional basketball player) Dixie Marshall (sports reporter and news presenter) Simon Reeve (television presenter) Matt Price (journalist) Eskimo Joe (rock band) Ben Roberts-Smith (recipient of the Victoria Cross) Alison Fan (Channel Seven reporter) Brad Hogg (Cricketer) Tim Minchin (Comedian) Geelong Football Club Steve Bracks (Former premier of Victoria) Anthony Hudson (sports commentator) Daryl Somers (tv personality) Denis Walter (Radio Personality) Felicity Kennett Mick Fanning Rebecca Maddern Ruby Rose Geoff Sunderland (Adelaide Radio Personality) Guy Pearce Cadel Evans Sally Fitzgibbons Aaron Baddeley Liz Cambage Hawthorn Football Club Jeff Kennett (former premier of Victoria and former club president) Bob Hawke (former Labour prime minister) Helen Kapalos (news reader) (#1 female ticket holder) John Wood (actor) Pat Cash (Wimbledon tennis champion) Lehmo (Comedian, TV & Radio Presenter) Stephen Quartermain (TV & Radio Commentator, Sports Presenter) Andrew Gaze (Former Basketballer) Peter Rowsthorn (Comedian) Lote Tuqiri (Australian rugby union player) Ian Baker-Finch (Australian Golfer) Steve Vizard (Former funny man and director of Telstra) Geoff Harris (Co-Founder of Flight Centre and Board member) Mark Taylor (ex Australian Cricket captain and Media Commentator) Janine Allis (Founder of Boost Juice and Board member) Tamsyn Lewis (athlete) James Tomkins (Australia's most successful rower) Cameron Smith (Rugby League - Captain of Melbourne Storm, Queensland and Australia) Melbourne Football Club John So (Former Lord Mayor of Melbourne) (#1 ticket holder) Terri Bracks (wife of Steve Bracks, #1 female ticket holder) Derryn Hinch (news presenter) Rob Sitch (comedian) Baz Luhrman (film director) Max Walker (former footballer, cricketer and humourist) Wilbur Wilde (musician) Rupert Murdoch Joseph Gutnick (businessman and former club President) Scared Weird Little Guys (Comedy act) Anthony Mundine (boxer) Shane Bourne (comedian) Mal Walden (newsreader) Alan Stockdale (former Victorian treasurer) Brad Hodge (cricketer) Steve Moneghetti (marathon runner) Beverly O'Connor (television and radio personality) Neil Mitchell (radio personality) James Tomkins (rower) Nicky Buckley (television personality) Geoff Cox (television presenter) Ian Henderson (newsreader) Rob Gell (television weatherman) Greg Evans (television personality) Mike Sheahan (sports writer) Michael Veitch (comedian and writer) Clint Stanaway (channel 9 news reporter) Archie Thompson (Soccer player) Hamish Blake (comedian) North Melbourne Football Club Ricky Ponting (former Australian Cricket Captain) (#1 ticket holder)[1] Simon Crean (federal Australian Politician) (patron) (leadership spiller) John Farnham (musician) Trevor Marmalade (comedian) James Brayshaw (Former Cricketer, Footy Show host and current club President) Tim Rogers (Musician - You Am I) Ralph Willis (Former Federal Treasurer) Ugly Dave Gray (Comedian) Sigrid Thornton (Actress) John-Michael Howson (Entertainment reporter) George Gregan (Rugby Union Player - Wallabies) Wayne Arthurs (Tennis player) Elle McPherson (Model) Peter Siddle (Cricketer) Mark Webber (Formula 1 Driver) Billy Slater (Melbourne Storm, QLD and Australian RL Full Back) Adam Rayner (Actor) Bronwyn Bishop (Politican) Darren Boyd (abc sport comentator) Jerry O'Connell (Actor) Gorgi Coghlan (Television Presenter) [3] Port Adelaide Football Club Hugh Sheridan (Star of Packed to the Rafters) David Koch (Sunrise co-host) Roger Rasheed (tennis coach) Hugh Jackman (actor) Mike Rann (former SA Premier) Richmond Football Club Mick Molloy (comedian) Cardinal George Pell (Archbishop of Sydney) Simon Katich (Australian cricketer) George Kapiniaris (Australian Comedian) Livinia Nixon (Australian TV personality) Denise Drysdale (Australian TV Personality) Gretel Killeen (Australian TV Personality) Paul Reiffel (former Australian Test Cricket fast bowler) Jane Turner (Australian comedienne - Kath in "Kath & Kim") Russell Morris (Australian rock legend) Caroline Wilson (Journalist - The Age newspaper, Fox Footy TV) Steve Price (Radio personality 2UE, formerly 3AW) Gerry Mellas (Director of Life Strategies) St Kilda Football Club Eric Bana (actor and comedian) Steve Bedwell (comedian) Darren Berry (state cricketer and radio commentator) Mark Doran (journalist) Bruce Eva (radio presenter) Lindsay Fox (businessman) Michael Gudinski (Mushroom records CEO) Graham Kennedy (Comedian) Michael Klim (Australian swimmer) Kate Langbrook (radio personality) Molly Meldrum (Music Industry Professional) Alicia Molik (Top Ten Tennis Player) Geoff Ogilvy (professional golfer) Stephen Peak (lawyer and radio presenter) Marina Prior (performer) Mick Thomas (musician) Shane Warne (cricket player) Peter Hitchener (newsreader) Alicia Loxley (newsreader) Sydney Swans Nicole Kidman (Actress) [2] Kristina Kenneally (former NSW Premier) Ian Thorpe (Olympic swimmer) Delta Goodrem (Singer) David Wenham (Actor) Judy Davis (Actress) Kerry O'Keeffe (Cricketer) Stuart MacGill (Cricketer) Richard Wilkins (TV Personality) Geraldine Doogue (ABC TV Personality) Fran Kelly (ABC Radio Personality) Ian "Dicko" Dickson (Former Australian Idol judge) Tom Gleeson (Comedian) Tom Williams (Host of The Great Outdoors) Sandra Sully (Newsreader) Mike Willesee (former current affairs host) Paul Mercurio Willie Mason (rugby league player) (Herald Sun 4/6/2006) Former owner Geoff Edelsten Scott Horscroft (Music Producer) Adam Spencer (Radio Host) Tony Squires (TV Personality) John Mangos (TV Personality) West Coast Eagles Shaun Tait (Australian Cricketer) Danny Green (Boxer) Ernie Dingo (TV Personality) Dennis Lillee (Cricketer) Jeff Newman (TV Personality) Justin Langer (Cricketer) Damien Oliver (Jockey) Rick Ardon ( Newsreader - Ch 7 Perth) Heath Ledger (actor) Western Bulldogs Will Anderson (Comedian) Julia Gillard (knifed Prime Minister of Australia) Chris Hemsworth (Aussie actor "Thor") Merv Hughes (Australian Cricket Player) Tom Lister William McInnes (actor, Blue Heelers) Dave O'Neill (Comedian) Janet Rice (Greens' lead Senate candidate) Mark Seymour (musician, Hunters & Collectors) Liam McIntyre (Aussie actor "Spartacus" TV Series) i suggest we all add to this list from our own knowledge - I think it can be instructive as to why clubs behave as they do.

I agree about the depth. I was there for the second half and when i arrived i think we were a couple of points behind and about 6 goals each. By the time I left we were 10 and they were 15, but we kicked three goals in the last 5 minutes or so. Frankly i thought the overall performance was deplorable, with the honorable exceptions of Jack Grimes and Matt Jones (someone about who i am not usually a fan, but he was one of the very few who gave us any sort of run and carry through the middle). The big disappointments were our talls. I thought Pederson looked slow and didn't hold his marks at least in the second half although i noticed he kicked 2 in the first. Spencer was just ok, had virtually no impact around the ground, and only broke even with Minson at best in the ruck. The big disappointment though was big Max. I am a huge fan of his, and he should be one of our key players as we move toward premiership contention in the next couple of years, but at the moment he is just not getting it. There was a gale blowing down the ground in the last quarter when we had the wind, and max was on someone a good deal shorter than him (most people are), but he simply fails as yet to use his size to any great advantage in marking contests, and in the ruck for that matter. I know he is only young, and these huge guys take until they are 24-25 to mature, but i think he was more effective 2 or 3 years ago, which is a worry. I really hope he makes it because he could be incredibly important to us, but at the moment it is not happening. The other big disappointment was Jimmy Toumpas. He gets the ball well, but by both hand and foot continually turns it over. In the half i watched i counted he got it nine times, and 8 of those possession went straight to the opposition. He is not ready for a senior recall, much as it pains me to say it. For mine, the two ins this weekend should be Grimes and Matt Jones, both very good, with both providing great run and carry on Sunday, and both have appeared to have considerably improved their kicking, both for accuracy and length. The other good point i saw on Sunday is that Fitzy is developing into a formidable tall back. I think personally he may be better than Frost in the long term, but i know many on here will not agree with me.

Not if the VFL is any guide. he was hopeless yesterday. Slow, and hardly took a mark. much like the rest of the MFC list, with the honorable exception of jack Grimes and Matt Jones, and i am not usually a fan of the latter.

Fahey is gaming them. Not that he needs to, Essendon and the crew seem to have fallen in the a false sense of security, without WADA having to sneak up on them, but sneak up on them they will. The court cases will happen all over again. The question is, will they (Essendon and the AFL) be prepared?

Julian Burnside has been taking the Essendon/Little money from the first days of Hird's coup to oust Evans. He is just another acolyte of the Hird propaganda machine. As far as the 40 cases in 1000 is concerned, that is very simplistic. Most of those referrals to WADA are trivial, single athletes in minor leagues. The 40 are the high profile, major infractions like Essendon and the AFL. BURNSIDE's comments are yet another attempt to tame WADA into inaction, as part of the sophisticated PR exercise we have been witnessing for almost two years now. It is interesting that they chose a high profile human rights lawyer. It is a clever choice as he has the reputation for straight shooting honesty. Still I guess it just shows that all barristers are ultimately guns for hire and everyone has their price.

Which parts of it do you question?

21 days after ASADA has finished, in this case their choice not to appeal. That is only the start though. There is a full court case to go through after that if WADA does appeal which I have not doubt they will. it could take several months before they get to a hearing, and that then could take weeks. CAS is different from the AFL Tribunal. They can suspender witnesses via various processes not available to the AFL Tribunal, and this could take some time. The fact that they are under European law, and can get reluctant witnesses to testify, makes it a very different case. It staggers me that most of the Press, and the AFL and Essendon appear to think this is over. It is far from over, and the odds are they will be rubbed out for considerable periods when this is through.

As I have written here before, there was a WADA global conference in South Africa in December 2014, when John Fehey was still President, which considered drug taking in team sports in detail. It was scheduled to last half a day, but was taken up almost entirely by considering Essendon and Cronulla, mostly Essendon. The consensus of the conference at the time that the issue is incredibly important, and given Australia's power and importance in world sport, if anyone can solve it we can. The result of that though is that the world IS watching the outcomes. We cannot hide behind our perceived backwater status in this. Interesting it is only some of us who consider us a backwater. The rest of the world certainly doesn't when it comes to sport, particularly in governance issues.

They wil Jack, they will.

Australia is definitely NOT bottom of the pile when it comes to sports. In fact we are a superpower, particularly when it comes to sports governance. The world looks to us for a lead, that is why the whole EFC issue is just so appalling, and why we must fix it fast. And we will with the help of CAS.

It does not surprise me at all that ASADA are not appealing. In fact I have been predicting this for over a year now. Why should ASADA spend their very scarce resources appealing to a local sports tribunal when they have been all along biased and highly influenced by the local sports culture, dominated by vested interest publicity machines with unlimited fundsI think it is a really smart move for McDevitt to hand the whole issue over to WADA in Switzerland where he knows he will get an objective hearing. He also knows that WADA tribunals are dominated by Olympic sports officials who take a much tougher line on drugs in sport than commercial team based sports like the AFL. In fact the Chairman of the CAS tribunal is none other than John Coates, the President of the AOC, and Director of the IOC, and he is on record as being appalled at the leniency under which Australian professional team sports have been administered wrt drugs. The Essendon case being the worst of the worst, you would expect them to come down on them like a ton of bricks.