Pirlo

Agree in principle but these two are our main guys with value who both seem to want out. You won’t get anything for Gawn, May, Viney - may as well let them lead a mini rebuild. Get the picks in pre Tassie, bring them through with a solid core around them, and we could be up and contending by 2028. Bowey, JVR, McVee, Jefferson, Windsor, Tholstrup, Langford, Lindsay. That’s our first round talent since 2020. Plenty to work with there with the right coach and a decent group of veterans.

So sick of hearing this. JVR, in his 2nd and 3rd seasons combined, kicked 58 goals. He didn't play in his first. Weideman kicked 77 across his nine year career. There is no comparison. He's had a bad start to the year, and he may never be a proper #1 key forward, but stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Take a look at yourself. Fritsch is lazy. He is also a top 10 goalkicker pretty much every season. Why would you delist him, especially when clubs would have been lining up every season for the past five years with first round picks on offer.

There's a leadership void at the club right now. Of those who would have been considered leaders in the flag year. Gawn is a year older, and beginning to slow down at last. The game is moving away from one-paced extractors like Viney, and he looks slower too. Petracca showed his hand. Not saying he was wrong, because he was mishandled, but there's clearly a fracture there. A good chance to be out next year. May is probably past it, at least as a first banana key defender. He was also involved in a scrap over the summer, and the first thing he did this week was whack a bloke and give away 50. You can carry leaders like this when all are on the straight and narrow, not when you desperately need calm heads. Lever has failed to advance his game since becoming a premier interceptor in his early 20s. Some of his contemporaries, like Tom Stewart, have managed to remain aerial kings whilst also being able to stick to a man. Lever is more Allir - good at one thing, but error prone. This bloke should be close to the AA squad every season, but has only made it once. What does it say to young players when someone is getting so much less out of themselves than they could? Losing ANB and Brayshaw in consecutive years was a disaster, and one the club seems to have done nothing to mitigate. Neither of them was as good as the top liners in the team, with respect to Gus who was a jet in his good seasons, but both were cultural barometers. All the cultural talk this year rings hollow when you see how disconnected the team looks on field. I thought we were bad in 23, then in 24, now I almost think back to last year warmly because it was rare the team didn't look at least relatively cohesive. We have a huge hole in the list of players drafted between 2015-2018 - guys squarely in their prime with years to go. Our core was drafted between 2009-14, and then 19-24. The latter is encouraging, as it means we have more young talent than other clubs in our position - but who the hell is going to lead them? Right now, its Max until he drops and then probably Lever who is still decent, but as said above, is hardly an example of a footballer who leaves everything on the field and gives everything he has every week. With all this in mind - you have to ask yourself. Do you trust Goodwin to plug the gaps himself? Is he the kind of eloquent coach who can speak to people at their level? Is he able to drive standards whilst straddling the line between popular and respected? The answer for me is a resounding no. As it was 6 months ago. Which makes hanging onto him and wasting this season all the more frustrating. Likewise Richardson.

Morris, despite his sins, is a passionate Dees supporter.

It's too early for this. We need to reassess at the bye. Right now, you trade one of them at least. What you don't do, however, is give up entirely just yet. Both are well below their fitness peak but both seem to be on the right track. We will know more shortly. Just hope the fact finding process isn't as painful as the past two weeks have been.

2027 will be a heavily compromised draft. Collingwood's first pick would likely be in the 20s.

Package all of our good young players for two picks. Genius way to rebuild.

Bring in a hungry coach and coaching group. Move Petracca and Pickett on, Oliver too if there are picks on the table. If Petty wants to move again, and has a good year in defence, let him go for a decent pick. Let Lever, Viney, May, Gawn, Langdon earn their money and protect the kids from complete humiliation. Bank high picks and pick up ready kids.

JVR revisionism out in full force. His [censored] season to date doesn't mean he was no good the last two years. 28 and 30 goals as a young FF in a largely dysfunctional forward line, only sometimes supported by Brown.

Out: McDonald - he's good, but not needed Johnson - I get it to an extent, but tell me what he brings beyond "mongrel"? Lindsay - inj Howes - can't carry a fumbly defender who can't kick Sparrow - its time. He is pointless. He may be marginally less worse than Billings, but at least Billings can run a bit. Windsor - obviously Pickett - obviously Lever - I have him as line ball with TMac right now, but inclined to pick him. He seems to have a job for life even though he's been poor by his own lofty standards for a long time Turner - have to reward five goals in the VFL Laurie - deck chairs, but maybe this is the year? Thin ice - Fritsch, Salem, JVR, Henderson Going against my own credo here by playing JVR, Turner, Fritsch and Melksham in the same fwd line. Too tall. But only because of the lack of options. JVR to play 30% ruck and get his hands on the ball. Starting midfield of Oliver, Rivers, Langford. Viney to pressure forward.

We were hardly an attractive proposition for assistants. Jones, I presume, was another one of those quick wins Brad Green put in place to try and unite the club. Again, looks great in January when you've got your social media of guys running plays in the sunshine with music pumping. Not so good at the G with the weather turning.

I'm sorry, but they're all playing like [censored]. Viney has no excuse, but he'll dine off huge coin for a few more years. Oliver seems to be trying harder, but the reality is that his going off the rails hasn't been fixed from a call from the President and a few hugs. He has a long way to go. Petracca is good in bursts, but his fitness base is totally ruined. He also doesn't seem invested. Sparrow is one of the worst inside midfielders in the league, but he seems our current extra man in. May as well play with one down. The Langdon experiment was a ridiculous idea which probably looked good at Gosch's in the sunshine, but at least they tried something. Rivers was excellent there last year and has been moved back out of necessity, where he is now stinking it up. A coaching group who understand the game would recognise that he is the closest we have to the prototypal modern midfielder (bulky enough to win clearances, quick enough to burst) and sacrifice one of the old guard, but that's not how our coach works. The reason clubs like Hawthorn are consistently successful is they are ruthless with their list. The reason clubs like Geelong are successful is that their 28+ y/o players take (ostensible) wage cuts to allow the club to bring in more talent. The reason clubs like ours are perennial sad cases is that, when we did strike gold, every single player took as much as they could at as many years as they could get. Pickett a big miss in there, but not big enough to justify our being the worst clearance team in the league. Suspect Jonesy will be out next year. Elevating him so early has shot him in the foot as much as the club.

No mate. "We'll go to work and get this right", as if we didn't just spend six months 'working' on something that looks like absolute rubbish. He's so tone deaf.

Who has said anything about "quickly". The word they've used is "differently". We are trying to chip the ball around like Hawthorn in their 3peat era and then take a quick kick to a leading forward once we have other teams chasing our tail. This relies on: Forwards who know how to lead deep (ours don't, aside from Turner who has other issues) Midfielders who are uber fit and can run two ways - most teams aren't running more than one or two big bulls so they can have more dash, and we have four or five Making the best decision by foot consistently Maintaining a decent set up in case we give the ball away and get torched on the rebound None of this is working right now. We are able to chip it around to the upper part of the D50, and then look down the line or burn a poor kick through the corridor. A mitigating circumstance here is that our best kicks are missing (McVee, Windsor off HB, Kozzy, now Lindsay). Them being back would ideally see this improve. The reality of the situation is that we're now relying on Bowey and Salem to execute. Salem is actually a really poor field kick when he has to hit a target 20+ metres away. Bowey is nominally better, but his footy IQ is really low IMO and he struggles to adapt when the option he wants isn't there or when he's under pressure. Neither of them seem to have a clue about how to change the angle, which is what leads to quick breaks. May and McDonald are much better at this, but they're old now and not as reliable. We haven't built a list of quality kicks like the Hawks used to have either. Even with those better kicks back, we will still encounter the same issues forward of the D50. So yes, its on the coach and list management.

We manage our list like its the first one in the league to ever win a flag.

I don't blame him. He's just been thrown under the bus by the coach, and is facing his football mortality for the first time.

Green looked like a unifier at surface level, mostly through standing up for the club and insisting we would hold our players, but the talk out of the club hasn't matched the on-field performances/effort which would suggest he hasn't been able to enact any change at all beyond stemming the bleeding for a while.

Our entries were poor in 22 and 23, but we win the 23 flag if we don't kick like absolute [censored] in those finals. The gamestyle used to work. Like all gamestyles before it, it has become obsolete due to changes in the trends of the game. Why pretend it never worked? Richmond won three flags with a similar formula.

We won the minor Premiership and played three of the best finals in modern history. The Dogs finished 5th. Don't talk rubbish pal.

Some players take unders to make their team better. Some players take overs when their club is in crisis by getting their dad to write a fake contract offer from elsewhere. Viney had a rough start, but he had Paul Roos as coach after one season and has pretty much always been at a functional club until now. He's not like Nathan Jones ([censored] midfield coach, by the way) who could have justifiably walked having been put through the ringer.

Just watched as much of the presser as I could, and you almost had it word for word! Just missed 'stoppage and scrimmage'.

Same thought I had. We thought our late 20s, early 30s guys still had legs at the beginning of 07. Eerily similar.

Did he give up? He almost died. He's in there, seeing the absolutely dysfunctional set up we have in place. He knows, now more than ever, that his career is short. How can you blame him? Just please don't go to the [censored] Pies.

Jack and Todd bent us over a barrel to get this contract. Totally leveraged us at our lowest. He can barely move, and he's here on huge coin for four more seasons. Heart and soul my [censored].

Did you read my post? I was responding to someone stating that Carlton losing will take the heat off us if we lose too.