TGR

I’ll see your 10c and raise you last year’s prelim.

Let's do what we have completely abandoned. Go back to the draft and select the best talent; and don't be seduced by quick fixes and recruiting big names on big dollars.

You didn’t review the prelim either? St Kilda smashed us last year on the vast spaces of the G. StK were the quickest back half to front half side in 2018 if I remember Richo’s comment early this year. Our finals wins were against the two slowest sides in the comp circa 2018. Then you have the league attempts to reduce congestion and numbers back; culminating in 666. MFC has a slow list. What’s worse is that our slow ‘quick’ players are lightweights that ain’t lightening. Stretch, Spargo, Garlett (ageing), Wagner. We are in dire straights but you and many others think we will flick the switch back to 2018. Maybe we will...Prelim time.

I wont be. A slow list recruits Lewis and gets rid of Frost. Says it all. This draft is weak too come 2nd round I hear.

Whether or not we low-balled him, the club and many demonlanders thought he was expendable.

It Tomlinson lands here, Preuss must be traded. Preuss and Melbourne would both be crazy if Preuss is in the red and blue next year anyway. Good solid no.1 ruckman for Geelong or GWS, but a liability forward.

The mantra of a team that is home in the bottom 4. What utter rubbish.

Richmond - fast and tough. Relied on the draft from 2007 and topped up with Lynch as icing on the cake. Melbourne - our smalls aren’t lightening nor tough (breaking a tackle or placing robust pressure). Looking for quick fixes (Lever, May, Elliott etc) at the expense of drafting 10 year players. We seriously don’t know whether to rebuild or re-plumb. Goody and the club have been hit between the eyes. The recruitment of speed and/or tough smalls has been a complete failure. Superimposed on this is the hubris of this club in thinking they can recruit the slowest player in the comp in Lewis, and dispense with our quickest in Frost; because we needed leadership and wanted to reduce turnovers. Utter idiotic madness. The only entertainment this club offers is a parody of how to build a football team. This is the latest version, but probably the best.

We haven't seen the best of Fogarty yet. His output will exceed Hogan's, if there is 10/1 around the place.

You cant make strawberry jam out of treacle. He is too slow as a forward. His only hope is GWS Mummy type replacement. I like Preuss, but he is no 2nd ruck. Rhys Stanley is built much better for 2nd ruckman. Taylor Walker is a prime example of a forward that needs to kick 4 to warrant the ease that defenders can waltz out without pressure. We are paying for idiotic D-grade decisions.

Rooey based it on the next hypothetical game where he would line up; and not only the 22 as you point out.

Where have I referred to Clarkson? Never came into my thinking at all. But if it suits your puppy-with-tongue-out shtick, keep going with it.

Let's abandoned the draft totally. We only missed on Max King last year for a 28 year old. We gave away 2 first rounders in a super draft the year before. We have no rising star winners for ages. Our 18-21 void will cost us in 4-5 years. Goodwin is going all-in on short-termism.

My guess is that MFC will the be the last to follow the Director of Coaching model, when Roos was actually the first to propose it a few years ago.

You guys live in la-la land. Do you really think that Goodwin, who wanted twiggy Lever for the price of $850 k per year, and 2 draft picks in a super-draft, is going to judge him any way but easy in relation to B&F voting? Conversely, do you think Goody, who is trying to off-load Frost, is going to go judge him any way but harshly? Votes per game, I will bet all my good stuff that Goody will give it to Lever. Yet you have a real objective bonefide expert in Rooey, who stated the bleeding obvious. Frost was our best defender in 2019 bar none. Frost had 'supreme effort' and he would prefer to play on Lever and May. Human nature. Roosy wouldn't have Howe in Collingwood's leadership group at the moment....or indeed Dunn. B&F's are absolutely subject to bias, and are more corrupt in my opinion, that objectively true. Wonder if Frosty makes the top 20 in the B&F? But you guys can clap the top 10, and convince yourself they are worthy.

You think his tank is worse than Lewis and Jones, who Goody tried in a big game at the G?

Someone has blown the whistle. Refer to Western Bulldogs saga 1-2 decades ago. Option 2? This is a coach that refused to review the 2018 prelim. This is a coach that said 'top 4 no longer matters'. This is a coach that has gone short-term with many decisions (Lever for 2 first rounders in a super draft, Jordie Lewis game-time, passing on the King twin and the list goes on). This is a coach that played Lewis and Jones on the wings at the G in a big game. His short-termism and decision making quality will only worsen as he coaches for his life in 2020.

I hope you are not a prosecution barrister. That serviette you're holding aint the Shroud of Turin. Let me be clear. When clubs contentiously get rid of a player it is in the club's best interest to 'lower' them on the B&F list. This has nothing at all to do with the fruitless task "tricking" other clubs. This is about marketing and massaging a message to members to minimise any potential fallout.

As Roos said, another one-pacer.

Read the thread. It’s nit about value. It’s about marketing and supporter relations.

That’s where you Simpletons get your qualifications. You take literature from the UBO away, we are only left with 5% of thought provocation and 3% of incoherent dribble.

Not saying B&F influences trade decisions. Just implying that clubs experience more difficulty trading a Howe or Kent or Frost or Watts or Dunn if they finish high in the B&F.

On one hand, you have pub talk (who else but Yobbo) and PhD speak (Dermie try-hard) and Evangelical talk (who else but Monsignor Whately) where the consensus reached is that B&Fs are the real indication because only the inside know about covert roles etc... On the other hand, they are absolutely corrupt and manipulated by other biases. Player contracts that have an incentive clause in relation to B&F position for instance. The other one is trying to flick off a player. Now that we know the club think that Frost played 2019 out-of-his-skin, and Clarko will be fooled by this, it will be interesting to see where "supreme effort" and courage (with and without ball in hand) gets him in this year's B&F. He is top 5 this year without one shadow of a doubt. Something tells me, Goody and co. will make sure that he finishes in the teens. As Keating once said, "in the race of life, always back self-interest". pTGR

Pies might be forced to. Their Beams is our Lever...for different reasons obviously.

Why? So I can get 'reassured' with rhetoric; and the "we understand your frustration" template answer. I recall Goody saying: - "top 4 doesn't mean anything to us anymore" in pre-season 2018/19 - "we wont review the prelim because that is not the way we (want to) play". If anything was preview of 2019, it was that bloody game. - "trust me, we will be able to score" - "Our preseason surgeries have meant that full fitness and cohesion will come later."...or words to that effect.