Lucifers Hero

Thanks DI. What was Hogan up to today...any sign of back problems again? ps could you put a link to your twitter pages please (I don't have twitter a/c but can get to pics when posters put a link into post). Cheers.

Nah, some of us like you as you are sweet dee...not like you to listen to naysayers!!

To me there is a difference between on field performance and on field leadership. He gets 9.5 out of 10 for the former more like 6.5 for the latter, IMO anyway. ..and the comment was in the context of objectivley, if he left what would be the impact, not to cast dispersions on him...

Probably, the case as there have been no rumours that talks are being put on hold. I can imagine the terms being negotiated are things like: - years of captaincy, - performance conditions for pay levels and for contract extension into 4 or 5 years - payout terms in case of career ending injuries. - support for off-field/post-playing career enhancing activities Nothing to do with Jones/MFC, I think clubs will get more creative with contracts now that players appear 'free' to change clubs/ask for trades whenever they like. eg A 're-signing' bonus - forfeited if player asks to be traded at contract's end or perhaps back ending contracts!!! Suspect there will be lots of commercial lawyers/managers out there thinking such things up as we speak. Not a moment too soon! Back to Jones, would bet he will stay!

IMO Jones would want and prefer to stay with the Dees but as you say it is a career. Until recently, I was one of those 'hero worshippers' when it came to Jones. While some are still unproven I have much confidence in the players now in the side. Objectively, what would happen if Jones left? Viney would be the natural successor to the hard-in-and-under type role and there are now a few others to play that role. Also, I feel Jones' on-field leadership is average and leaders are being developed. He doesn't kick many goals nor turn the tide in a match. So, while I would hate to see him go I will no longer be devastated. The team can stand up without him...there I said it! Jones is our idol but is not indispensable to our team/club. I no longer feel the club must pay overs to keep him.

Where is all this pessimism that we will lose to EFC next year coming from!! Last time I looked we beat them 2 of last 3 years. So we can/should win regardless of who, when, where! Privately, I dream thrashing EFC would make for a beautiful season in 2015! Will settle for a win!

on first reading I thought that said 'Roos coloured glasses'

Go to page 1 of this thread!!

Apparently, players can '...watch the proceedings via access to a live video stream of the courtroom...' Assuming that this is off-site from the Tribunal room nothing to stop them from having their fave journalist there! Pretty hard to control if its being beamed around the country to the home/work of 34 players. So much for a closed hearing!! In all likelihood it will be only 'Joe Public' that doesn't get a front row seat! I can see some journos literally drooling at the video stream, contriving their next sensational headline. For some reason the rather unpleasant image of Les Patterson comes to mind!

Interesting that it is being reported that the Tribunal hearing being 'closed' Dank no longer agrees to appear as a witness. Clearly, he was hoping for a 'public forum' where he is not under oath to get on his soapbox about 'doing nothing wrong' etc. Appears that ASADA may have stuffed up (again). Now reported several times that ASADA legal team in Canberra, last year told ASADA investigators to not worry about signed affidavits from Charter and Alvi...they could be obtained 'later'. Well, 'later' is too late. ASADA may well rue the day when investigators were overruled by their Canberra legal eagles...

Interesting, yes but how many reps would there be from the Dees if the rules were not: '....one player from each club"! We may not rate a mention. Its not MFCSS syndrome nor am I being cynical its just that while we are now loaded with potential it will be a while (several years?) before we earn the respect of other teams' players or footy fans in general.

A Capt and 1 or 2 VC's is still a 'Leadership Group ' just fewer participants. The quantity is irrelevant...we need players that can manage the on-field game. With a single Capt like a Selwood, Hodge etc we probably wouldn't need an 'LG" but as we don't have that type of player, with the dna you speak of, the work needs to be shared around. Even Roos said last year he could do with more 'runners' because of the inexperience of his on-field leaders. The number of 4th qtr leads we surrendered last year would not have happened so often if our on-field leadership was stronger. '...leadership...emulate or perish, you say'!! Sounds like the plot from 'Lord of the Flies'! And we know the anarchy that ensued!

N- B reads like a Sam Mitchell type. Bring him on!

We have various players who are good at one or more: professionalism, good speaker, train the house down, play hard and tough. But we desperately need on-field leaders that can help: manage the game plan/positions during a game, control game tempo, motivate when the chips are down, etc. IMO, we don't have players with such skills. Next best bases for selection is experience and maturity, IMO. So for mine: Co-Capts: Jones, Lumumba. Leadership: Grimes, Dawes, Cross, maybe Dunne. Omissions: Garland - needs to focus on his game/fitness; yet to show leadership abilities. Vince - have doubts about maturity. Various younger players - let them enjoy the game, play as best they can, consolidate positions and learn leadership skills from the leaders. No need to burden them with such responsibility when barely out of their teens. Anyone know if the Club has 'Leadership' training. If so send Viney, Big Mac, Brayshaw, Tyson, Toumpas, Salem etc. They are our premiership leadershp team. If the Club doesn't have such training - maybe its time to get it.

Comparisons can be tricky as the Lions 12mill is 'Debt' not 'Operating Loss'. Our Debt at the end of 2013 looks about the same as the Lions. I suspect our Debt level in 2014 won't have changed much. While $161K Operating Profit is better than an Operating Loss it says we are just hanging in there. So agree with WJ, a fair way to go to get out of the woods. BTW, very impressed to read in yesterday's PR that home game attendances this year were up 28% on 2013. An incredible performances by Demon fans given that most home games were against i/state teams at unfriendly times and we weren't winning. Perhaps explains why memberships are now up vs this time last year. Bodes well for 2015 financial performance!! Your underlying point is very valid: win more games and things financial are greatly improved!!

The 'perfect storm' that Roos referred to yesterday has passed. But there is a way to go to say the storm clouds have entirely gone and that era has ended as there are still 14 players that were on our list for the '186' game and thru the Neeld years. Another 9 players have been coached by Neeld. 23 players who carry some scars from that 'perfect storm' who never learnt how to win. Still some healing to be done. One more year, of list changes, before the end of that era but its end is nigh. Nonetheless wish Strauss, Blease, and Tappy the best for their careers. It was not their fault to be caught up in that 'perfect storm'.

Club website: Brayshaw 10 Petracca 26 Mc D 28 Neal - Bullen 30 Vandenberg 37 White 41 As previously announced, Heritier Lumumba will wear No.8, with fellow recruits Billy Stretch (No.15), Sam Frost (No.17), Ben Newton (No.19) and Jeff Garlett (No.36) also given their new numbers.

In 2015, would like Jones to step up (hold your keyboards folks!!!) He is undoubtedly, our best player. Very professional. But believe he has much more potential. As an on-baller, would like him to kick more goals and impact the result more. As an example, Selwood focused on more goals in his preseason last year and it paid off handsomely. As our captain, would like him to do a bit more on-field 'coaching' by among other things, making sure players are following coaching orders and reminding them when not. And to become more vocal, especially when we go into our shells and go into what Roos called 'think we are going to lose' mode. Other leaders have a role in these but as captain would like to see Jones lead the charge, become our General. These will lift him into the ranks of one of the best players in the league, not just at the Dees. More importantly he will become a terrific leader for us.

From today's Australian: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/asada-court-hearing-over-reluctant-witnesses-delayed-for-week/story-fnca0u4y-1227143254363 "ASADA is seeking a subpoena to compel the Sydney-based Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergetics, of which Mr Dank is a director, to produce: “....all documents in their custody, possession or control which relate to or reference the purchase and or receipt of the following substances during the period August 2011 to September 2012: GHRP-6, CJC-1295, SARM-22, AOD-9604, Hexarelin, Thymosin Alpha, Thymosin Beta-4, Thymomodulin and Melanotan II.’’ It is understood that ASADA has previously attempted, without success, to use its own coercive powers granted last year by the federal parliament to secure company record from Mr Dank…" Answers why ASADA haven't been able to get info from Dank before. Good to see subpoena requested to get it. If subpoena granted I for one am not confident his info won't go to the same place that EFC's did, so well possible not much will show up.

Agreed. My posts above referring to 'early in the season' or 'the season' mean the real playing season, not the preseason or practice match season. To me Vandenberg seemed the most likely and most valuable, if JT goes onto the LTI...if it happens - April at the very earliest.

Update on Vandenberg from MFC website: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2014-12-03/vandenbergs-form-hard-to-ignore-taylor Doesn't say when he had surgery but does say that "they weren't deterred by a shoulder injury that will see him begin the pre-season in rehabilitation, with expectations high he will be ready to go by March... ...His numbers stack up well when compared to Richmond revelation Anthony Miles who played in the NEAFL when at the Giants...Always talented, Vandenberg had knuckled down in recent seasons and proved himself capable of playing at a higher level than NEAFL.'' Wouldn't be surprised to see him play a practice game, a couple at Casey then promoted to Primary List for JacK T. Perhaps quite early in the season.

Agreed. But there will probably be an upgrade in the early part of the season as no benefit in not doing so. AV could play a role in the team sometime in 2015 so IMO, he seems the most likely to get the nod. Also. now that the drafts are over, we need some sort of guessing-game to keep us on DL amused/bemused/disagreeing

Next question: Who do you think will be upgraded to primary list if/when Trengove goes onto the LTI? Choices: King, Harmes, Vandenberg, White. The Ainslie club website shows: Aaron VANDENBERG 03/03/92 188 90 so he may turn 24 in March. "Reads play well, attacking playing who isnt afraid to have a go and shrug a tackle, South Coast product" So, I choose Vandenberg. IMO, we can do with a strong, tallish midfielder while Pretrecca, Brayshaw, Stretch and Neal Bullen learn the ropes at Casey. He is our tallest mid-fielder. Also, looks a handy type to 'protect' those kids once they come into the side ala the way Geelong nurtured/protected Selwood in his early years.

Pick 20: Mitchell White from dandy stingrays DOB: 10 Apr 1996 Height: 188cm Weight: 85kg Local Club: Seaford/St Peter's College "An on – field leader with the way he speaks, constructive feedback to teammates on where they should be positioning. A great spoiler, time after time again, he uses his leap to spoil effectively over the boundary. Used the ball really nicely to teammates. Played across the back line and through the midfield. Good as a third man up option. Looked a standard above today." http://madmondayshow.com/2014/06/02/rd-9-dandenong-stingrays-scouting-notes/ Like the bit as a 'third man up option'!!

This is laughable!! http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-12-02/premier-declares-holiday?utm_medium=RSS While we all want more holidays, all it does is increase the cost of business, especially small business who will have to pay staff penalty rates so a few thousand people can go to a parade!! Outside Swanston St it is business-as-usual but at much higher the cost. Andrews has no idea!! Unbellievable!!